Ancient/Pre-Steam Unit Graphics

[CurtSibling]

Erwan overload - Excellent!

[Fairline]

More OCD units, this time 3rd - 5th Century Romans. Shield patterns copied from this excellent Notitia Dignitatum site:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sar...aPatterns.html

Proper geeks will recognise the (almost) complete OOB for Julian the Apostate's comitatus at Argentoratum AD 357, which I've been using for a late Roman conversion of JP's Germanicus on the Rhine scenario.



EDIT: Added a few more of the little beggars

[CurtSibling]

Seriously definitive late-era Romans, sir!

[Hans99]

And really impressive too.Your mastership in pixel art is impressive. I wonder how you do it ?

[civ2units]

Your units are as always very outstanding

I found this nice guys on my harddisk, you painted them a couple of years ago. I'm not sure if you ever made a ToT version of these units. I would like to ask if you maybe interested to change them in your current ToT format?

[Tanelorn]

Gareth, your attention to accuracy and detail is astonishing.
I think that historybuffness and civtwoness go hand in hand.
Hans99 makes a very good point. This forum needs a thread where to share painting tips, like Catfish's unit painting guide and your tank painting guide, back in the day.

[McMonkey]

I don't mean to sound like a creep, but honestly whenever I see a set of unit as beautiful as those I feel like a little kid on Christmas morning and my imagination goes into overdrive dreaming up projects to use them in. Its a damn shame there is a limit to how many units can be used in a scenario as they all need to be utilized!

[Fairline]

Thanks gents

Originally Posted by Tanelorn

Gareth, your attention to accuracy and detail is astonishing.
I think that historybuffness and civtwoness go hand in hand.
Hans99 makes a very good point. This forum needs a thread where to share painting tips, like Catfish's unit painting guide and your tank painting guide, back in the day.

I'll think on. Not sure I'm great at guides, but I'll see what I can do.

@ C2U: Theyre on the list to do. Right now, I'm playing ToT for the first time in ages, so I'm upgrading scenario gfx as I play them. This won't last though....

@McM: You need to make a late Roman scenario then Drew There's lots of untapped (for civ) potential: Stilicho vs Alaric, Justin vs the Alammani and Persians, Aetius vs Atilla....

[civ2units]

Great to hear this. What scenario are you currently playing?

[Fairline]

JP's Germanicus. It's a must-play. AWI is on the list to play soon....

[civ2units]

I´m looking forward how your struggle for Independence will go on

[Palaiologos2]

Sorry to go off topic here, but why are the Legio Comitatenses portrayed as pikemen?
Most propably he would have carried a Lancea light spear(that could actually be thrown) and a Spatha sword for backup.

I don't know of any difference in the equipment of Palatini and Comitatenses.

[Torbk]

Even a light spear is about 2,40m to 2,80m, if it is a two handed spear. A one handed spear can be shorter, down to about 1,60 or even 1,40. Shorter than that it looses its effect.

I would guess its not so much a pike as an accurate spearman. A pike is generally more than 3m long.

I myself own a spear which is about 2,80 for Roman re-enactments. Here as an extra "Aquillonian" for the Age of Conan mmo launch event way back when.

[Palaiologos2]

Originally Posted by Torbk

Even a light spear is about 2,40m to 2,80m, if it is a two handed spear. A one handed spear can be shorter, down to about 1,60 or even 1,40. Shorter than that it looses its effect.

I would guess its not so much a pike as an accurate spearman. A pike is generally more than 3m long.

Well exactly. The lancea was one-handed and could be thrown. About 2m i'd wager.
The spiculum(javelin) on the other hand was about 1.60cm.

[Fairline]

Originally Posted by Palaiologos2

Sorry to go off topic here, but why are the Legio Comitatenses portrayed as pikemen?
Most propably he would have carried a Lancea light spear(that could actually be thrown) and a Spatha sword for backup.

I don't know of any difference in the equipment of Palatini and Comitatenses.

The late Roman infantry used a 9ft thrusting spear (kontos in some sources, despite this term usually being used for 2-handed cavalry spears). The standard throwing weapon was the Plumbata dart or the lancea light spear, which several sources suggest was used by a lighter-armed component of each numerus, and presumably by the all the troops in the various legio comitatenses 'lanciarii' units. Hence I've drawn the bog-standard troops with 9ft spears and the Lanciarii Seniores is shown throwing a lancea.

[Palaiologos2]

Originally Posted by Fairline

The late Roman infantry used a 9ft thrusting spear (kontos in some sources, despite this term usually being used for 2-handed cavalry spears). The standard throwing weapon was the Plumbata dart or the lancea light spear, which several sources suggest was used by a lighter-armed component of each numerus, and presumably by the all the troops in the various legio comitatenses 'lanciarii' units. Hence I've drawn the bog-standard troops with 9ft spears and the Lanciarii Seniores is shown throwing a lancea.

I think you are mistaking 3rd century romans with 6th century ones.
Osprey claims the lancea was their prime weapon, with the spiculum javellin as their secondary. I suppose it makes sense that the legio comitatenses were not insta-transformed from swordsmen to pikemen but rather to spearmen.
But i'll give it a look before arguing more.

[Fairline]

No, the long spear was used even as early as Arrian; he specifically mentions his infantry were issued with the kontos when fighting the Alans. Anyway, the Notitia is late 4th early 5th C. depending on it's reference to the eastern or western armies.

[Palaiologos2]

Man, there is nowhere a mention of infantry being issued regulary the kontos cavalry spear. They propably got it to face off the Alan cavalry in that particular battle.
The first roman infantrymen to become pikemen were the thematic units.
Moreover you half-wit they carried 5 plumbatarii in the interior of their shield, and a pilum. How do you expect a pikeman to throw a javelin or a dart? And apparently you are unaware of the late Roman army combat formations. The testudo(renamed), cuneus etc. All unsuited to pikemen. How could pikemen ever form a testudo?
Stick to drawing and let the research to the pros.

[McMonkey]

@Palaiologos2
I know your probably saying it in a joking manner but it would be very easy for your last post to be taken the wrong way. Please be careful what you post as insulting language will not be tolerated at the SL!

[CurtSibling]

Ah! I assume this is the infamous Pericles humour coming into play here -