Adding a new civ: Lithuania

[PatCat90]

I agree the moorland would have to be included as well.

Lithuanias history is linked with Polands for almost the both nations whole historical timespan. Since the late 14th century they were in an union as a commonwealth. It's almost the same as Norway who got in a union between the 12-13th century or someting and with Denmark till 1814 when they were given to Sweden as a reason of the lost war alongside Napolen. Norway and Denmark aren't two seprate civs, so why should Lithuania be so?

Either Poland needs some tech buff so they become a stronger civ, more advanced civ or there would have to be an event in game that would somewhat merge these two civs, or at least unify them somehow. Looking on the territory side of things, Lithuania will probably end up more powerful, which isn't right and vassalize Poland.

Sorry if I sound negative to the idea, but I just don't see how this will work.

[Leoreth]

I don't want to sound offensive, but Lithuania played a larger role in the PLC than Norway in the Kalmar Union.

[PatCat90]

Originally Posted by Leoreth

I don't want to sound offensive, but Lithuania played a larger role in the PLC than Norway in the Kalmar Union.

That they surely did

Besides the kalmar union was something between the three scandinavic nations that existed for about a century or so I think. Otherwise it was Denmark, Norway vs Sweden.

[HockeySam18]

Originally Posted by PatCat90

That they surely did

Besides the kalmar union was something between the three scandinavic nations that existed for about a century or so I think. Otherwise it was Denmark, Norway vs Sweden.

As Poland and Lithuania were allies historically, that should be so in the game (unremovable defensive pact?) Then they would concentrate more on expanding as per history (N, SE, E) than squabbling with their close neighbor.

[yogiebere]

As pointed out with several people, it seems this mod isn't just about individual civilizations. For example, the Norse (Denmark and Norway) or the Germans (united at times but more often fragmented than not). I'd rather see something like one of Polands main UHVs is to settle Lithuania or somehow incorporate it in well, like once it settles lithuania call the country by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

While Lithuania could be implemented, Poland's goals are already somewhat diluted and Poland is rather a weaker civ (in power and clarity of function).

Sidenote: looking at the history of moskva, didn't it start several hundred years before the mod's spawn? (I'm fine with it staying the same for balancing reasons and such)

[ezzlar]

If Poland was given the means to settle all that land they would be a powerhouse. Therefore, in game balance terms, Lithuania is a good choice!

[3Miro]

Originally Posted by yogiebere

As pointed out with several people, it seems this mod isn't just about individual civilizations. For example, the Norse (Denmark and Norway) or the Germans (united at times but more often fragmented than not). I'd rather see something like one of Polands main UHVs is to settle Lithuania or somehow incorporate it in well, like once it settles lithuania call the country by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

While Lithuania could be implemented, Poland's goals are already somewhat diluted and Poland is rather a weaker civ (in power and clarity of function).

Sidenote: looking at the history of moskva, didn't it start several hundred years before the mod's spawn? (I'm fine with it staying the same for balancing reasons and such)

We are filling a void zone between Poland an Moscow, this is the main reason to include Lithuania.

Moscow spawn should be associated with them breaking the domination of the Mongols and regaining their freedom.

[3Miro]

I hate XML to C++ mechanics.

I have the dynamic civ names almost figured out, although when I am done, we will have to do some serious editing of the XML, but at the end thing will be far more flexible in terms of names and such.

Unfortunately, I will no be able to work on this until tonight. Please abstain from changing the CivilizationInfo.xml files.

[merijn_v1]

I won't make any changes until your done with the coding for Lithuania. (I onlywill do dome text and art, maybe a little XML bugfix)

[3Miro]

Did I mention how much I hate XML to C++

Anyway, I managed to export the dynamic civ names into XML. We can add Lithuania with minimal efforts (also edit the dynamic civ names). The current scheme is far more flexible than what we had before, although it is still incomplete (I still need to add the criteria for when nations count as Empire or simple Kingdom, I just forgot to do it on the first run). Since I will be making more changes later, don't go berserk on the names yet. You can make a list of what you want to see, propose suggestions, but don't bother coding yet, the important things is to add Lithuania.

One question to whomever tests this from the SVN. Does the new XML scheme slow things on load considerably or it just my Linux not liking the XML module?

This is an explanation on how things work (for modders):

Spoiler:

Each civilization has new tags describing DCN (Dynamic Civ Names). The tag identify condition, that have to be satisfied for the civilization to assume the given name. A check for "change name" is triggered when a civilization founds/conquers/razes/trades a city, changes civics or changes vassal status.

Conditions are parsed one by one, top to bottom. The first condition that gets "satisfied" becomes the name for the civilization. Each condition has several tags that need to be ALL "satisfied" for the condition to be "satisfied".

- three or civics, if you are running any of the three civics, then all three are considered satisfied. If they are listed as "NONE", they are automatically satisfied regardless of what you are running.
- religion, you have to have the same state religion in order to satisfy this one. NOTE: "NONE" here doesn't mean no-state-religion, "NONE" means ANY religion, state or otherwise.
- not religion, you must have a different state religion to satisfy this one (this is used to more easily identify "Christian" vs "Muslim", religion: Islam -> Caliphate, not-religion: Islam -> Kingdom). NOTE: "NONE" here means it is automatically satisfied.
- VassalOf and GenericVassal are used together. You have to first set "GenericVassal" to 1, then set the specific master. NONE for the master means any master.
- Same for MasterOf and GenericMaster
- After Turn gets satisfied when you go pass that turn.

Again the check is top-to-bottom and it stops at the first "satisfied" entry. If you put:

<DCNCondition>
                                        <DCNConditionCivic>CIVIC_MONARCHY</DCNConditionCivic>
                                        <DCNConditionOrCivic1>NONE</DCNConditionOrCivic1>
                                        <DCNConditionOrCivic2>NONE</DCNConditionOrCivic2>
                                        <DCNConditionReligion>NONE</DCNConditionReligion>
                                        <DCNConditionNotReligion>NONE</DCNConditionNotReligion>
                                        <DCNConditionVassalOf>NONE</DCNConditionVassalOf>
                                        <DCNConditionGenericVassal>0</DCNConditionGenericVassal>
                                        <DCNConditionMasterlOf>NONE</DCNConditionMasterlOf>
                                        <DCNConditionGenericMasterl>0</DCNConditionGenericMasterl>
                                        <DCNConditionAfterTurn>0</DCNConditionAfterTurn>
                                        <DCNName>TXT_KEY_MY_KINGDOM</DCNName>
                                </DCNCondition>
<DCNCondition>
                                        <DCNConditionCivic>NONE</DCNConditionCivic>
                                        <DCNConditionOrCivic1>NONE</DCNConditionOrCivic1>
                                        <DCNConditionOrCivic2>NONE</DCNConditionOrCivic2>
                                        <DCNConditionReligion>NONE</DCNConditionReligion>
                                        <DCNConditionNotReligion>NONE</DCNConditionNotReligion>
                                        <DCNConditionVassalOf>CIVILIZATION_BYZANTIUM</DCNConditionVassalOf>
                                        <DCNConditionGenericVassal>1</DCNConditionGenericVassal>
                                        <DCNConditionMasterlOf>NONE</DCNConditionMasterlOf>
                                        <DCNConditionGenericMasterl>0</DCNConditionGenericMasterl>
                                        <DCNConditionAfterTurn>0</DCNConditionAfterTurn>
                                        <DCNName>TXT_KEY_MY_DUCHY</DCNName>
                                </DCNCondition>

if you are using Civic Monarchy, then the second condition will not get called. You have to flip them if you want to be called "Kingdom" when free and "Duchy" when vassalized.

Post or PM me if you need any help, this getting late, so I am probably not as coherent as I should be.

[3Miro]

merijn_v1, how do you want to Lithuania. The options are two:

Option 1:
- you do the entire XML (Civ, Leaders, Units, Buildings) and Art.
- I do python/C++/world builder

Option 2:
- I do python/C++/world builder as well as hack the XML (i.e. add the tags, but use Poland's art and some generic Leaderhead)
- you then edit the art

Either option is fine with me.

[AbsintheRed]

I have two major exams left, one on monday, the other on thursday
So I probably won't be able to help till then, apart from small things

I already plan to do another update to the leaders, with adding Ivan Asev and improving some others, so if either of you add only temporarly art and xml for the lithuanian leaders, I will edit that too in the same update.
If it can wait till next thursday, then no temporarly art and xml needed there, I will do that too
Merijn, will you do the units and buildings?

Anyway, 3Miro, you can focus on the python/c++
We can both easily do all the xml and art

[merijn_v1]

Let's go for option 1, so you have more time for other things. Currently, I'm playing a game as Moscow on revision 536. I prefer to finished it before I update to the latest revision and do the changes. (I think that will be this afternoon)

[3Miro]

Originally Posted by merijn_v1

Let's go for option 1, so you have more time for other things. Currently, I'm playing a game as Moscow on revision 536. I prefer to finished it before I update to the latest revision and do the changes. (I think that will be this afternoon)

Good enough, post here whenever you are finished.

[merijn_v1]

@ 3Miro

As I said, I can update to the newest revision, but I can't see what's changed. Can you give me the list of changes in revision 537 and 538, please?

[merijn_v1]

I'm finished with my Moscow game and I started preparing the XML for Lithuania, but I have (almost) no idea what I should include. I just merged in the art of the civ I proposed in post 3. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=14349) So I have this questions:

1. What color will Lithuania have? I'm currently using a red one, but that maybe to close to the red of Moscow.
2. Will the UU be the Bajoras? (The unique features doesn't matter for now for me)
3. Will the UB be the Vivodeship (or Vaivadija according to 3Miro)? The art that is used in the module is the same as the Swedish Soldier Tennant. So 1 ofthem should get an other art.
4. Will Mindaugas and Vytautas be the leaders?
5. Is the button (and also the flag) correct? (only the shape, the color can be changed afterwards)

[3Miro]

Originally Posted by merijn_v1

I'm finished with my Moscow game and I started preparing the XML for Lithuania, but I have (almost) no idea what I should include. I just merged in the art of the civ I proposed in post 3. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=14349) So I have this questions:

1. What color will Lithuania have? I'm currently using a red one, but that maybe to close to the red of Moscow.
2. Will the UU be the Bajoras? (The unique features doesn't matter for now for me)
3. Will the UB be the Vivodeship (or Vaivadija according to 3Miro)? The art that is used in the module is the same as the Swedish Soldier Tennant. So 1 ofthem should get an other art.
4. Will Mindaugas and Vytautas be the leaders?
5. Is the button (and also the flag) correct? (only the shape, the color can be changed afterwards)

1. Can you make a white-ish - grey-ish color. Check the Polish color, Russians are Dark-red and Blue, Lithuania will probably get close to Bulgaria (green) and Hungary (brown). So white-gray will be nice or alternatively yellowish (you actually have to add the color in one of the XML in CIV4ColorVals.xml in the Interface folder. They use RGB (alpha = 0). I guess FFFFCC would be good (I think it is like 1.0, 1.0, 0.75, but double-check)

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_colors.asp

2. Make them Bajoras and give them bonus vs Light Cavalry (we can easily change that later).

3. Vaivadija will be for now. You will have to get new art either for this or the Swedish building.

4. Yes, give them those Leaders.

5. I don't know anything about the art, maybe AbsintheRed knows.

[youtien]

Now I am reading Martin Gilbert's Imperial Russian History Atlas (Chinese version, 1987) for preparation! What are your reference books?

[3Miro]

Originally Posted by youtien

Now I am reading Martin Gilbert's Imperial Russian History Atlas (Chinese version, 1987) for preparation! What are your reference books?

Google.com and Wikipedia.

[AbsintheRed]

Originally Posted by merijn_v1

I'm finished with my Moscow game and I started preparing the XML for Lithuania, but I have (almost) no idea what I should include. I just merged in the art of the civ I proposed in post 3. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downlo...=file&id=14349) So I have this questions:

1. What color will Lithuania have? I'm currently using a red one, but that maybe to close to the red of Moscow.
2. Will the UU be the Bajoras? (The unique features doesn't matter for now for me)
3. Will the UB be the Vivodeship (or Vaivadija according to 3Miro)? The art that is used in the module is the same as the Swedish Soldier Tennant. So 1 ofthem should get an other art.
4. Will Mindaugas and Vytautas be the leaders?
5. Is the button (and also the flag) correct? (only the shape, the color can be changed afterwards)

Cool, so you have time to do all this
I'm fine with 3Miro's suggestions for colour and UU
The art will be Capo's Mindaugas, but we didn't decide yet to use it as Mindaugas or Gediminas. But this is an xml change only, so go ahead. Vytatutas will be the second leader.
As I said, I like the other 2 lithuanian flags better. The one you suggested is a little blury (at least for me).