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Old Mar 10, 2011, 02:55 PM   #401
babybluepants
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LIFE EXPECTANCY

GLH leader = 7 1
At least 1 AI = 8 1
At least 1 AI = 6 1

APPROVAL RATE

All AI start with 5 1 (typical pop 1 city) - no CHA leaders

SOLDIERS

Most likely we have something like:
1 w 14000
3 w 13000
1 w 12000
1 w 11000

Doesn't make sense if they get 2 Archers and Hunt/Arch to start - which I assume they do on Emp. That's a minimum of 14000. What am I missing? Also, don't know how to get 1000 differences between.

Archery = 6000
Archer = 3000
Hunting, Mining = 2000
Warrior = 2000

Edit: xpost w LC.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 02:55 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybluepants View Post
Louis is French, as are we. (Our city is called Paris, too)
Based on the hint we were given:
In the War of the Sixth Coalition (18131814), a coalition of Austria, Prussia, Russia, the United Kingdom, Sweden, Spain and a number of German States finally defeated France and drove Napoleon Bonaparte into exile on Elba. After Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Russia, the continental powers joined Russia, Britain, Portugal and the rebels in Spain. With their armies reorganized, they drove Napoleon out of Germany in 1813 and invaded France in 1814, forcing Napoleon to abdicate and restoring the Bourbons.
Louis fits perfectly. He is restored to power.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 03:14 PM   #403
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I figured we wouldn't have "Paris" then. Is that not right?

Power: It's a bizarre thing. Why would he take away basic techs or mess with units to such an insignificant degree? The way he could easily make a mistake is by giving back wrong starting units after moving start positions. A single archer would account for the 11 and 13 (Mining, no Mining). If we go with either 14/14/14/12/11/11 or 14/14/13/12/12/11, DS simply forgot to edit in two archers total. What do you think? Either case, we have 3 AIs with Mining. - Edit: That's obviously wrong...

Edit:

Basically the only way to get the odd numbers is with a single archer. 12 is impossible with archers, unless there are techs missing. The only permutation without 12 is: 14 / 14 / 13 / 13 / 11 / 11, which would be:
11000 = 2 AI with Hunting + Archery + 1 Archer
13000 = 2 AI with Hunting + Archery + Mining + 1 Archer
14000 = 2 AI with Hunting + Archery + 2 Archers

Another variation I can think of is that Louis really is in the game, and has no units (the French army is with the Emperor, is it not?). He could actually be the GLH AI (pre-settled, explaining the Paris nomenclature, as well).
11000 = 2 AI with Hunting + Archery + 1 Archer
12000 = Louis = Hunting + Archery + Wheel
14000 = 3 AI with Hunting + Archery + 2 Archers
Or:
11000 = 1 AI with Hunting + Archery + 1 Archer
12000 = Louis = Hunting + Archery + Wheel
13000 = 3 AI with Hunting + Archery + Mining + 1 Archer
14000 = 1 AI with Hunting + Archery + 2 Archers

Otherwise, some of them have warriors and others archers, or there are techs missing, like LC said...

Last edited by babybluepants; Mar 10, 2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 04:01 PM   #404
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I think he moved the AI and forgot to add an archer back in. It makes sense since presumably he had to move a few civs around to make the map work.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 04:46 PM   #405
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I edited my previous post.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 07:03 PM   #406
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Based on the hint, my best guess is that it's:
Code:
Russia  Cathy     Mng 
UK      Vicky
Sweden  Ragnar
Prussia Fred/Bis  Mng
Spain   Izzy
France  Louis     TW
 -or-
Portgl  Joao      Mng
But it doesn't really matter. It looks like a typical mix. I think the GLH holder didn't start with Fishing and researched that first, but built a worker, so didn't grow T29. I don't see why else his GNP would go from 24 to 26 on T9. That would narrow who it is, I guess.

Otherwise, it seems likely there might be an industrious leader or two.

I think we should focus on getting a couple of explorers out and then REXing, as we've been discussing. I'd continue with Pottery, as tested. Moai won't do much good without happies and healthies. Other wonders are questionable in fastest conquest. Time will tell.

One important question would be where to send the first wb. Do we assume there are paths both east and west? Start east and loop around to the west? Start south and loop east or west?
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 07:09 PM   #407
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Vicky starts with Mining, otherwise sounds right with Louis. Best guess: it's the last option I listed above and exactly what you have. Yeah, it doesn't matter much. Just fun for me to do... 1-2 IND sounds right (Louis and maybe Bismarck), only one with Mysticism (Isabella).

I think the first WB should check for food near stone, then loop east and towards north somehow. Not really sure on the sequence. If stone doesn't have food, our best spots are either north or east, because we get free borders on fish and crab as you pointed out.

Pottery first seems the strongest at this point. I've been trying to, but can't quite match your save with Sailing first. Are we just trying to emulate that save? What's the stopping point? Pottery-Sailing, assuming nothing drastic discovered by initial WB scouting?

Edit: btw, US and Xteam opened exactly like us.

Last edited by babybluepants; Mar 10, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 09:16 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by shyuhe View Post
As for roster, let's wait for Dhoom.
Okay, that's fine... I can still play next... but like I said, I probably won't play the turnset for a few days and it'll take me a bit to get a PPP up.

In the meantime, I just took a look at Mitchum's screenshots and I'm overwhelmed... so much info... I'm glad that some of you are able to get some value out of it.

But, the question begs to be asked: do we have enough Demographic info? If not, I guess that you want me to keep taking screenshots? If yes, how frequently and of which screens?

Also, what turn would the next turnset be played until?
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 09:29 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by LowtherCastle View Post
One important question would be where to send the first wb. Do we assume there are paths both east and west? Start east and loop around to the west? Start south and loop east or west?
An important follow-up question is how interactive people want the exploration to be. I mean, is it going to be up to the currently UP player to figure out where to send the explorers based on some pre-chosen guidelines, or are we expecting to have a turn-by-turn pausing and giving of input?

Also, what's the stance on "cutting corners" versus "fully exploring corners"--the latter takes more time but only reveals a tiny bit of extra info for the extra turns spent... but might also help to ensure that we find all "connecting" islands.

Also, does the corner cutting or fully-exploring strategy differ for nearby exploration (i.e. exploring for potential City locations) versus farther-away exploration (i.e. for finding AIs and/or finding other islands and/or getting the layout of the map)?
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 10:12 PM   #410
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Personally, I think it's best to fully explore all corners (i.e no cutting). Otherwise, you may run into a dead end and have to backtrack, retracing your moves without cutting corners, thus exploring everything twice. If there is a non-Astronomy path to all AI, we need to know about it ASAP. Exploring all corners is the most effective (not the fastest) way to do it.

I don't think we have time for turn-by-turn input for exploring. I think we should agree on a general plan and rely on the up player to take care of it. Sure, it gets tricky when the path branches. I suggest the up player do the best he can, only pausing if he feels team input is needed.

All of this from my phone...
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Old Mar 10, 2011, 11:15 PM   #411
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1. Definitely defog the corners when it otherwise looks like ocean. For example, due east/east-ne of the fish kind of has the feel of ocean, but is it? A corollary is that if it's looking like it's completely ocean-locked, then don't cut any corners, because that's info we want to know. Furthermore, there might be those corner tiles that unlock the ocean with a corner city.
Spoiler:
Code:
!-------------------!
! o ! - ! c ! D ! c !
!-------------------!
! o ! - ! c ! c ! D !
!-------------------!
! - ! - ! x ! c ! c !
!-------------------!
! c ! c ! - ! - ! - !
!-------------------!
! L ! c ! - ! o ! o !
!-------------------!
L=land; c=coastal; -=coastal/ocean; o=ocean; x=coastal/ocean; D=invisible land that we can "see" via tile x.

If tile x is not an empty ocean tile, we can cross the ocean after 150 in a city on tile L.

2. I would definitely defog all fat cross tiles for sites we're considering in the "inner ring."
3. I might stick to the inner ring till we get that clarified, even though there might be tempting sites in what looks like a secondary ring, assuming that we'll obviously going back later on.
4. After the inner ring (probably not your turnset anymore), then we'll considering beeline east and west for circumnavigation and meeting AIs,

Last edited by LowtherCastle; Mar 10, 2011 at 11:22 PM.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 09:12 AM   #412
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Agree on de-fogging corners, and leaving the rest up to the judgment of the active player. The two important things for exploration now are (1) finding a good spot for city #2 and (2) finding the AI if possible. I think 1 is more important than 2 here right now.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 09:39 AM   #413
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I'm happy to defer the scouting decisions to the active player. Given the nature of the map, we should probably limit the play session length now that explorers are coming out. I think approximately 10t is fine, which would take us to Pottery in the next session. The same player can continue right after, but we should have some discussion of what's been revealed in-between.

Agree on not cutting corners and on prioritizing city #2.

LC 304 Pottery-first has at least 40t of exploring before we need to decide where to send the settler (roughly 25t with the first explorer and 15t with the second). That's plenty to explore the inner ring.

This is about how far the WBs can make it around the inner ring. Just a quick graphic that assumes that what we see is what we get for the islands in the inner ring (i.e. no extra land to loop around)):
Spoiler:




Galley's not done 'till T74.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 10:07 AM   #414
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Good graphics, bbp. Seeing that makes me think a couple logics for wb exploring. Obviously, one is to have them end up where they continue on to see AI. Further, considering we might be waterlocked, it makes sense to have them end up where they might immediately make nets. That's more likely to be w, s, or e, simply because hopefully there will be at least one decent site and that's least likely to be tundra. So my thought is for the second wb to go north and loop around west. That means the first wb should probably start west (or possibly start sw) and quickly loop around the inner ring s and then east. That would leave wb1 near the fish or ready to go further e or se. Wb2 would be reasy to net or travel to the w or sw.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 10:28 AM   #415
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I don't think we'll necessarily have a coastal path from the SW island to stone, so I'm not sure how your first WB suggestion would work.

The thing to note is that we have lots of spare turns in just looping around the inner ring. In other words, we could follow connecting islands with one WB fairly soon. We seem to be located north (crab), so the most likely AI connections would be SW-S-SE, correct?

One option would be to have the first WB complete the loop I started. It can hopefully get it done by T74 - continuing my graphic suggests T72 to get to the SW island, though we're likely to have some more turns spent. Then we could have the second WB beeline a likely AI connection that's been revealed?

Alternatively, the first WB could peel off a.s.a it scouts the stone/fish island, leaving the N and W half of the loop for the second.

In any case, what we need to decide first is which way to send the first one. If we stop the next session around T55-58 (Pottery-WB2), we should have a lot more information for making further decisions. With that in mind, I like the path I showed for T47-55.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 12:01 PM   #416
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I would like to look at the stone more closely earlier in the scouting pattern as well. That area will have 3 hills (one desert) and if there's food, would make a strong city #2.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 12:12 PM   #417
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I would like to look at the stone more closely earlier in the scouting pattern as well. That area will have 3 hills (one desert) and if there's food, would make a strong city #2.
We have to decide on pottery or sailing next now. How will exploring stone earlier make any difference?
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 12:16 PM   #418
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I thought the best test runs occured when we researched Pottery next for an early granary. This may delay City #2 a bit but it sets Paris up to be a stronger capital sooner and actually speeds up City #3.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 12:16 PM   #419
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I would like to look at the stone more closely earlier in the scouting pattern as well. That area will have 3 hills (one desert) and if there's food, would make a strong city #2.
I don't think we can scout that site much earlier than indicated in LC's plan.

I prefer sailing-pottery for our tech order as it allows us to found our second city sooner.
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Old Mar 11, 2011, 12:20 PM   #420
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Here are three possibilities. I'm trying to avoid wasting turns to the ne, leave the wbs in sensible places.
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