[BTS] SGOTM 13 - TNT thread - Page 34

dima42 · Apr 28, 2011, 12:42 AM

Keath, this is awesome

.

The only advice I have off the top of my head is to update the resource trades. Like, stop gifting one of the things to Ragnar, and get 1 gpt for it. Also gift/trade some other resources.

I think your long-term trading partners at this point should be Vicky and Joao, with Willem ok for now and Cathy as long as you don't give her military stuff.

Oh, and switch engineer to hill in Elba I think

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 10:26 AM

I'm back! Thanks, dima for having a look.

I'm glad my whipping isn't as bad as I thought.

It seemed the 2pop whips had only 1-2 hammer overflow and I had to resort to 1 pop whips at times. I'll be playing over the next few hours.

dima42 · Apr 28, 2011, 10:53 AM

overflow is most relevant when you're trying to grow cities (so you get max growth time per hammer output from whipping).

yeah, you probably don't want 1-pop whipping at this stage except in the smaller cities (you can this way often whip from pop3 to pop2 to pop1 and get 2 pop worth of shields without growing to pop4; of course this usually only makes sense if there's only 1 tile worth working).

another guide to whipping armies specifically is that you want to concentrate units towards the end of production to minimize support costs. so then you do want the overflow. but the transportation difficulties here make that less important.

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 12:59 PM

We already have 368/819 beakers into CoL so it might be better to use our GM for something else. Willem is in WHEOOHRN.

dima42 · Apr 28, 2011, 01:30 PM

When I wrote "CoL" I totally meant "CS." Not really sure how that came out, sorry. Glad you didn't follow it

.

enKage · Apr 28, 2011, 03:18 PM

I dont agree with working hills instead of engineer. I think +3GPpoints are more valuable than +1 food and +1 production. Remember we have high chance of gaining great prophet who at his stage has little value. Anythibg towards getting nore chance to GE or GM is more valuable for me.

How about u guys?

dima42 · Apr 28, 2011, 04:03 PM

We should be able to minimize great prophet chances fairly effectively because we will be running caste system and possibly pacifism pretty soon. You should also keep in mind that the next ~3 great people we want are probably scientists (except for the music artist), and engineer pool dillutes that further.

But you're right, it's not obvious; I happen to think that the +1f and +1p is bigger here, but it's perfectly legit to disagree.

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 06:05 PM

I am at Turn 18 and Joao has asked us to end our deals with Ragnar. Because we are about to wage war on him and we want to have good relations with Joao I am not sure what to do.

Everything is coming along pretty much as planned but I won't get to war in my turnset but wouldn't mind finishing up the preparations in about 3 turns.

Edit: We have two turns on a trade deal with Ragnar and this makes me unsure, otherwise I'd agree to end the deals.

dima42 · Apr 28, 2011, 06:27 PM

Definitely agree to end with Ragnar. His opinions matter for at most 25 more turns

.

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 06:32 PM

^^Thank you!!

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 07:16 PM

Summary:
We have CS but haven’t revolted yet.
Our army is built except for a couple of late pops.
2 workers in galley near Elba
Sword to pop rush in Paris
Can pop axe in Lens in 5 turns
Stack of 4 in jungle north of Nidaros
Stack ready for amphibious attack from Rheims.
Research set to Music at 100% in 5 turns

Spoiler:

Save uploaded to server.
Deal for iron to Joao has just ended.
Still a few units to be transferred.

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 07:28 PM

Here is the turnlog:

Spoiler:

>save<

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 07:32 PM

***ROSTER

Windfury (up)
fizbankovi (on deck)
2metraninja
The Dude Esq
dima42
justjohn
enKage
keath (just played)

Keath · Apr 28, 2011, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enKage

I dont agree with working hills instead of engineer. I think +3GPpoints are more valuable than +1 food and +1 production. Remember we have high chance of gaining great prophet who at his stage has little value. Anythibg towards getting nore chance to GE or GM is more valuable for me.

How about u guys?

For the most part, I had an engineer going and we got lucky to get the GM. The engineer is still hired.

Keath · Apr 29, 2011, 12:29 AM

@Windfury -

We haven't heard from you for awhile.

You are next to play. When you have the save just post an 'I got it'.

enKage · Apr 29, 2011, 03:00 PM

Turn 170, 50 BC: Shah Jahan (Great Merchant) has been born in Elba (Napoleon)!

That's great!! The best great person we could get, as we have civilservice!! Collosus started to pay off

I\m not sure if it would be better to save it for trade mission to london (remember London has really plenty of good food and should be huge city now) or Amsterdam and manually get machinary and CS, then upgrade everything to maces, but quick beuarocracy is a good move too I think.
(I missed the post with getting GM before).

As well we can rush for another one GM? (market whip during war with Rangar or enact civic?)
Do we really need great scientist in this game? could anyone explain it?
We will bulb education tree we dont need so much and we dont need to rush for astronomy quickly, everywhere we cen get by galleys. I'm not sure but AI probably don't prioritise astronomy more then they do it on land mapscripts...
It is better for us to secure guilds first for workshops than chemistry, and then go to astronomy and get frigates... This branch of tech tre doesnt need great scientists...

BTW I think u did pretty well with military preparations

Keath · Apr 29, 2011, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enKage

Turn 170, 50 BC: Shah Jahan (Great Merchant) has been born in Elba (Napoleon)!

That's great!! The best great person we could get, as we have civilservice!! Collosus started to pay off

I\m not sure if it would be better to save it for trade mission to london (remember London has really plenty of good food and should be huge city now) or Amsterdam and manually get machinary and CS, then upgrade everything to maces, but quick beuarocracy is a good move too I think.
(I missed the post with getting GM before).

As well we can rush for another one GM? (market whip during war with Rangar or enact civic?)
Do we really need great scientist in this game? could anyone explain it?
We will bulb education tree we dont need so much and we dont need to rush for astronomy quickly, everywhere we cen get by galleys. I'm not sure but AI probably don't prioritise astronomy more then they do it on land mapscripts...
It is better for us to secure guilds first for workshops than chemistry, and then go to astronomy and get frigates... This branch of tech tre doesnt need great scientists...

BTW I think u did pretty well with military preparations

Thanks, enKage -- Too bad you missed the post I made about the GM. Of course, the GM was burned on CS but your ideas are definitely worth considering, or would have been.

@fizbankovi -- in case Windfury doesn't show, I hope you're up to picking up the next set.

dima42 · Apr 30, 2011, 12:16 AM

@enkage:

If it were me, I would be popping some of philosophy, education and printing press, with scientists. Possibly not paper since we won't have the scientist.

Bulbing is rather more efficient with scientists beaker-wise than other Great People.

I suspect we need no techs in this game aside astronomy/rifling (in fact, I would completely shut off research at that stage in favor of espionage). And as you mentioned, astronomy isn't super-required. (although transporting armies with galleys is quite inefficient)

justjohn · Apr 30, 2011, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dima42

Bulbing is rather more efficient with scientists beaker-wise than other Great People.

A GS gives 50% more tech than other great people. Of course, if you get enough to finish the tech in one turn, then it doesn't matter, since bulbing don't give overflow.

And hello again people! I'm sorry for falling off the earth like that, but I'm in the middle of moving, and will still have little time for civ for a while. But I try to keep myself up to date with our progress, even if I don't have much time to experiment and comment.

-jj-

Keath · Apr 30, 2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjohn

A GS gives 50% more tech than other great people. Of course, if you get enough to finish the tech in one turn, then it doesn't matter, since bulbing don't give overflow.

And hello again people! I'm sorry for falling off the earth like that, but I'm in the middle of moving, and will still have little time for civ for a while. But I try to keep myself up to date with our progress, even if I don't have much time to experiment and comment.

-jj-

Great to have you back, jj!

Windfury, fizbankovi

give us a sign of your presence.....

It's wartime!!
Is there someone with the time to pick up the save and play if we don't hear from Windfury/fizbankovi ---- 2metra??

Apr 28, 2011, 03:18 PM	#666
enKage Warlord Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Łódź, PL Posts: 215	I dont agree with working hills instead of engineer. I think +3GPpoints are more valuable than +1 food and +1 production. Remember we have high chance of gaining great prophet who at his stage has little value. Anythibg towards getting nore chance to GE or GM is more valuable for me. How about u guys? __________________ Don't like Lizzy -_- 27.12.2010 - First Emperor SpaceColony win

Apr 28, 2011, 06:05 PM	#668
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	I am at Turn 18 and Joao has asked us to end our deals with Ragnar. Because we are about to wage war on him and we want to have good relations with Joao I am not sure what to do. Everything is coming along pretty much as planned but I won't get to war in my turnset but wouldn't mind finishing up the preparations in about 3 turns. Edit: We have two turns on a trade deal with Ragnar and this makes me unsure, otherwise I'd agree to end the deals. Last edited by Keath; Apr 28, 2011 at 06:20 PM.

Apr 28, 2011, 07:16 PM	#671
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	Summary: We have CS but haven’t revolted yet. Our army is built except for a couple of late pops. 2 workers in galley near Elba Sword to pop rush in Paris Can pop axe in Lens in 5 turns Stack of 4 in jungle north of Nidaros Stack ready for amphibious attack from Rheims. Research set to Music at 100% in 5 turns Spoiler: T6 35 bc 2pop whip galley --> sword in Rheims Willem in WHEOOHRN. Cancel clams to Ragnar Trade clams to Willem for 3 gold/turn Gift Joao corn in hopes he’ll trade CoL (368/819) -end turn- IT Builds --> T7 20 bc Switch Marseilles to work boat for expansion timing IT Drama -->CoL at 0% Moai complete --> sword Cathy wants us to end deals with Joao - NO. [B]T8/B] 5 bc Lots of barbs on local islands. Searching for Catherine..... Building archers for MP. I can’t see how we’ll get back to warriors for awhile. Good for happy and safer. IT GM in far away land T9 10 ad Set research to Col in 2 turns -- no trades Rush granary --> archer in Tours Rush work boat in Marseilles --> granary Hire scientists in Paris Need a few turns of improved health so trade clams to Ragnar for wheat. T10 25 ad We find Catherine! Trade iron to Joao for silk -- need happy for a few turns. IT Isabella insists we stop trades with Russia - NO. T11 40 ad CoL --> CS at 0% GM discovers CS with 2 turns at 100% Paris pops work boat Hire Engineer in Elba IT T12 55 ad Discover St. Petersburgh Galley to Marseilles for repairs Marseilles work boat nets fish Set research to 100% for CS in 1 turn Ragnar worst enemy of Joao and Victoria IT Enter Medieval Age -- get CS --> Music at 0% T13 70 ad Paris archer --> sword Rush archer in Lyons for mp duty Nidaros: - 1 - 2 star sword 1 - 2 star spear 4 galleys 1 archer Large buildup of Dutch swords, axes, spears at Russian border near St. Pete. Willem declares on Cathy T14 85 ad Lyons archer --> CH Drop spies near Nidaros Spear/axe in jungle south of Lens fortified for barb axe Cancel Fish with Willem Trade fish for pig with Willem T15 100 ad Spies move into Nidaros T16 115 ad We’re a million strong! Spies in Nidaros sleep IT We defeat barb axe in jungle get promo T17] 130 ad Willem Engineering in 15 turns IT Joao asks us to end deals with Ragnar. We agree now Ragnar is not talking. I have a trireme blocking the passage of any galleys for when the time comes. T18 145 ad Elba axeman --> Theatre Lens builds lh --> axe T19 160 ad Cathy asks for our help against Willem. NO. T20 175 ad Joao asks to end deals with Ragnar - agree - now Ragnar is not talking. Discover Moscow and the GLH! 2pop axe in Orleans Save uploaded to server. Deal for iron to Joao has just ended. Still a few units to be transferred. Last edited by Keath; Apr 28, 2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Fix hanging brackets

Apr 28, 2011, 07:28 PM	#672
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	Here is the turnlog: Spoiler: Here is your Session Turn Log from 155 BC to 175 AD: Turn 163, 155 BC: The revolution has begun!!! Turn 163, 155 BC: Napoleon adopts Hereditary Rule! Turn 164, 140 BC: Ragnar adopts Hereditary Rule! Turn 165, 125 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Archer. Turn 166, 110 BC: You have trained a Archer in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Spearman. Turn 167, 95 BC: Victoria converts to Confucianism! Turn 168, 80 BC: The borders of Elba have expanded! Turn 168, 80 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Elba. Work has now begun on a Galley. Turn 168, 80 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 168, 80 BC: You have constructed a Library in Paris. Work has now begun on a Work Boat. Turn 169, 65 BC: You have discovered Calendar! Turn 169, 65 BC: You have trained a Spy in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Galley. Turn 169, 65 BC: You have constructed a Monument in Lens. Work has now begun on a Spy. Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley (2.00) vs Napoleon's Galley 4 (Lyons) (2.20) Turn 169, 65 BC: Combat Odds: 32.2% Turn 169, 65 BC: (Plot Defense: +10%) Turn 169, 65 BC: Napoleon's Galley 4 (Lyons) is hit for 19 (81/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (80/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Napoleon's Galley 4 (Lyons) is hit for 19 (62/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (60/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Napoleon's Galley 4 (Lyons) is hit for 19 (43/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (40/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (20/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (0/100HP) Turn 169, 65 BC: Napoleon's Galley 4 (Lyons) has defeated Barbarian's Galley! Turn 170, 50 BC: You have constructed a Library in Elba. Work has now begun on a Galley. Turn 170, 50 BC: Shah Jahan (Great Merchant) has been born in Elba (Napoleon)! Turn 170, 50 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Corsica. Work has now begun on Moai Statues. Turn 170, 50 BC: The borders of Orleans have expanded! Turn 170, 50 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 170, 50 BC: You have constructed a Library in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Spearman. Turn 170, 50 BC: Isabella adopts Hereditary Rule! Turn 171, 35 BC: You have trained a Galley in Elba. Work has now begun on a Spy. Turn 171, 35 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 171, 35 BC: You have trained a Spearman in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 171, 35 BC: You have trained a Galley in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 171, 35 BC: The borders of Marseilles have expanded! Turn 172, 20 BC: You have discovered Drama! Turn 172, 20 BC: You have trained a Spy in Elba. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 172, 20 BC: You have constructed Moai Statues in Corsica. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 173, 5 BC: Pytheas (Great Merchant) has been born in a far away land! Turn 174, 10 AD: You have trained a Archer in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Archer. Turn 174, 10 AD: You have trained a Spearman in Lens. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse. Turn 175, 25 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws! Turn 175, 25 AD: You have constructed a Granary in Tours. Work has now begun on a Archer. Turn 175, 25 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Marseilles. Work has now begun on a Granary. Turn 176, 40 AD: The borders of Paris have expanded! Turn 176, 40 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Paris. Work has now begun on a Archer. Turn 176, 40 AD: St. Paul (Great Prophet) has been born in Barcelona (Isabella)! Turn 177, 55 AD: You have discovered Civil Service! Turn 177, 55 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Corsica. Work has now begun on a Swordsman. Turn 177, 55 AD: Victoria adopts Organized Religion! Turn 178, 70 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Elba. Work has now begun on a Axeman. Turn 178, 70 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Axeman. Turn 178, 70 AD: Willem van Oranje has declared war on Catherine! Turn 178, 70 AD: Isabella has completed The Mahabodhi! Turn 181, 115 AD: Barbarian's Axeman (2.60) vs Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Orleans) (7.50) Turn 181, 115 AD: Combat Odds: 0.0% Turn 181, 115 AD: (Plot Defense: +50%) Turn 181, 115 AD: (Combat: -50%) Turn 181, 115 AD: (Combat: +50%) Turn 181, 115 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 27 (25/100HP) Turn 181, 115 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Orleans) is hit for 14 (86/100HP) Turn 181, 115 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Orleans) is hit for 14 (72/100HP) Turn 181, 115 AD: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 27 (0/100HP) Turn 181, 115 AD: Napoleon's Axeman 1 (Orleans) has defeated Barbarian's Axeman! Turn 183, 145 AD: Marseilles has grown to size 3. Turn 183, 145 AD: Willem van Oranje has 180 gold available for trade. Turn 183, 145 AD: Catherine is the worst enemy of Willem van Oranje. Turn 183, 145 AD: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Ragnar for Open Borders Turn 183, 145 AD: Deal Canceled: Fish to Ragnar Turn 183, 145 AD: Ragnar refuses to talk. Turn 183, 145 AD: Isabella has founded Murcia in a distant land. Turn 184, 160 AD: Elba has grown to size 8. Turn 184, 160 AD: Elba can hurry Theatre for 2? with 52? overflow and +1? for 56 turns. Turn 184, 160 AD: Corsica can hurry Theatre for 2? with 53? overflow and +1? for 32 turns. Turn 184, 160 AD: Orleans will become unhappy on the next turn. Turn 184, 160 AD: Paris has grown to size 7. Turn 184, 160 AD: Isabella has 90 gold available for trade. Turn 184, 160 AD: Joao II is the worst enemy of Ragnar. Turn 184, 160 AD: The borders of Lens are about to expand. Turn 184, 160 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Axeman. Turn 184, 160 AD: The borders of Lens have expanded! Turn 184, 160 AD: Taoism has been founded in York! Turn 185, 175 AD: Corsica has grown to size 8. Turn 185, 175 AD: Orleans has grown to size 7. Turn 185, 175 AD: Joao II has 80 gold available for trade. You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility >save<

Apr 29, 2011, 03:00 PM	#676
enKage Warlord Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Łódź, PL Posts: 215	Turn 170, 50 BC: Shah Jahan (Great Merchant) has been born in Elba (Napoleon)! That's great!! The best great person we could get, as we have civilservice!! Collosus started to pay off I\m not sure if it would be better to save it for trade mission to london (remember London has really plenty of good food and should be huge city now) or Amsterdam and manually get machinary and CS, then upgrade everything to maces, but quick beuarocracy is a good move too I think. (I missed the post with getting GM before). As well we can rush for another one GM? (market whip during war with Rangar or enact civic?) Do we really need great scientist in this game? could anyone explain it? We will bulb education tree we dont need so much and we dont need to rush for astronomy quickly, everywhere we cen get by galleys. I'm not sure but AI probably don't prioritise astronomy more then they do it on land mapscripts... It is better for us to secure guilds first for workshops than chemistry, and then go to astronomy and get frigates... This branch of tech tre doesnt need great scientists... BTW I think u did pretty well with military preparations __________________ Don't like Lizzy -_- 27.12.2010 - First Emperor SpaceColony win Last edited by enKage; Apr 29, 2011 at 03:16 PM.

Apr 28, 2011, 12:42 AM	#661
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	Keath, this is awesome . The only advice I have off the top of my head is to update the resource trades. Like, stop gifting one of the things to Ragnar, and get 1 gpt for it. Also gift/trade some other resources. I think your long-term trading partners at this point should be Vicky and Joao, with Willem ok for now and Cathy as long as you don't give her military stuff. Oh, and switch engineer to hill in Elba I think

Apr 28, 2011, 10:26 AM	#662
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	I'm back! Thanks, dima for having a look. I'm glad my whipping isn't as bad as I thought. It seemed the 2pop whips had only 1-2 hammer overflow and I had to resort to 1 pop whips at times. I'll be playing over the next few hours.

Apr 28, 2011, 10:53 AM	#663
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	overflow is most relevant when you're trying to grow cities (so you get max growth time per hammer output from whipping). yeah, you probably don't want 1-pop whipping at this stage except in the smaller cities (you can this way often whip from pop3 to pop2 to pop1 and get 2 pop worth of shields without growing to pop4; of course this usually only makes sense if there's only 1 tile worth working). another guide to whipping armies specifically is that you want to concentrate units towards the end of production to minimize support costs. so then you do want the overflow. but the transportation difficulties here make that less important.

Apr 28, 2011, 12:59 PM	#664
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	We already have 368/819 beakers into CoL so it might be better to use our GM for something else. Willem is in WHEOOHRN.

Apr 28, 2011, 01:30 PM	#665
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	When I wrote "CoL" I totally meant "CS." Not really sure how that came out, sorry. Glad you didn't follow it .

Apr 28, 2011, 04:03 PM	#667
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	We should be able to minimize great prophet chances fairly effectively because we will be running caste system and possibly pacifism pretty soon. You should also keep in mind that the next ~3 great people we want are probably scientists (except for the music artist), and engineer pool dillutes that further. But you're right, it's not obvious; I happen to think that the +1f and +1p is bigger here, but it's perfectly legit to disagree.

Apr 28, 2011, 06:27 PM	#669
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	Definitely agree to end with Ragnar. His opinions matter for at most 25 more turns .

Apr 28, 2011, 06:32 PM	#670
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	^^Thank you!!

Apr 28, 2011, 07:32 PM	#673
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	***ROSTER Windfury (up) fizbankovi (on deck) 2metraninja The Dude Esq dima42 justjohn enKage keath (just played)

Apr 29, 2011, 12:29 AM	#675
Keath King Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Rock Posts: 954	@Windfury - We haven't heard from you for awhile. You are next to play. When you have the save just post an 'I got it'.

Apr 30, 2011, 12:16 AM	#678
dima42 Prince Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: san francisco, ca Posts: 331	@enkage: If it were me, I would be popping some of philosophy, education and printing press, with scientists. Possibly not paper since we won't have the scientist. Bulbing is rather more efficient with scientists beaker-wise than other Great People. I suspect we need no techs in this game aside astronomy/rifling (in fact, I would completely shut off research at that stage in favor of espionage). And as you mentioned, astronomy isn't super-required. (although transporting armies with galleys is quite inefficient)

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