Project SYNTHESIS

[Alexius08]

Yes. The coordinates could be varied for other cases.

Maybe we can also add a missionary of the dominant religion in Italy to the French spawn, a missionary of France's state religion to German spawn, etc., so that we could safely relocate the Christian holy city to Jerusalem (time for the Crusades random event).

[J. pride]

Originally Posted by Alexius08

Yes. The coordinates could be varied for other cases.

Maybe we can also add a missionary of the dominant religion in Italy to the French spawn, a missionary of France's state religion to German spawn, etc., so that we could safely relocate the Christian holy city to Jerusalem (time for the Crusades random event).

Cant we just add Christian missionaries or wud that be too deterministic.

Also, I like ur idea for a Crusades Random Event. Perhaps one that is like Rfc europe. But to balance that out we would also need a similar event for the muslims. Perhaps a jihad event with Saladin as a great general

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by J. pride

Cant we just add Christian missionaries or wud that be too deterministic.

No, too deterministic. Honestly, this isn't anymore complicated. Seeing as it brings virtually no drawbacks I don't see the problem with it.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Also, I like ur idea for a Crusades Random Event. Perhaps one that is like Rfc europe. But to balance that out we would also need a similar event for the muslims. Perhaps a jihad event with Saladin as a great general

I'm not sure about the Crusades. It might be out of place on a world map like RFC. I can understand it in RFCE, but in RFC it may not work all that well.

[BenZL43]

Okay.. just never mind my suggestion for the first city idea
At least all of you agreed to not letting Indian starts at Dilli

Another suggestion,
Since you're going to tweak the map..
I'll suggest about moving the Papua island 2 tiles east, to make space for the legendary Spice Island
And adjust the position of Hawaii a bit east and up
Picture :

Before :


After :


Nah, what do you think ?

[Alexius08]

Originally Posted by J. pride

Also, I like ur idea for a Crusades Random Event. Perhaps one that is like Rfc europe. But to balance that out we would also need a similar event for the muslims. Perhaps a jihad event with Saladin as a great general

I mean the random event that you get when someone else controls the holy city of your state religion (Refer to Quest 9 in this list). Let's modify it so that it would trigger only when the owner of the holy city follows another religion.

[The Turk]

Hi Everyone!

I love what this game is getting at, but one mistake which EACH AND EVERY SINGLE modmod is making, is keeping Taoism and removing Confucianism! Taoism is a folk philosophy/psuedo-religion and is LIMITED to only certain areas of China, while Confucianism is a religion (or philosophy, East Asia religion often = philosophy of life), which is practiced across East Asia. Historically it started in China, then spread to Korea, Japan, Mongolia and Vietnam, places that STILL to today are influenced HEAVILY by the teachings of Confucious, in fact all of them celebrate Confucious' birthday (not Mongolia though ), while Lao Zu's teachings, although respectable are a lot more folk mythical, and I doubt many of you have ever even heard of him before. I have taken several classes in Eastern religions, so believe me I know what I'm talking about.

Overall though, I would STRONGLY urge you to switch around the roles of Confucianism and Taoism.

Also something which is greatly overlooked is the spread of Buddhism, which had its strongest impact in China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia, and pretty much everywhere across East Asia (and South Asia for a time being), so the spread factor of that religion should be increased ten fold.

I also hope you included the modcomponent which changes the Arab UP to delete preexisting religions, is this true?

Also I would recommend removing Zoroastrianism, and just having Paganism as a type of religion, which can be spread from Persia to Gaul (Rome included), BUT does not grant a diplomatic bonus between empires, and instead grants the construction of a Pagan Temple, like in Leoreth's mod.

Also the Ancient Egyptians should respawn after the Arabs move their capital to Baghdad (10 turns later lets say or so), and become the (Shi'ite, if you include the religion) Fatimids, while the Arabs become the Abbasids controlling Mesopotamia/Syria; where the control for the Holy Land (Hejaz and Levant) would be vital for both empires and therefore they would be locked in constant warfare for control of it (*cue* to have a Crusade event)


PS. If the Taoism-Confucianism idea falls through, I might have a more devious plan which could work (but it would be more work for the modders to implement)

[J. pride]

I think Confucianism should be added back but not at the expense of Taoism because:
1) Confuciuas was a moral and philosophical teacher not a religous prophet.
2) Most people that follow Confucianistic teachings are follower Chinese Traditional Beliefs aka Taoism and Buddhism.

Actually most people in China follow a combination of Chinese Folklore, Taoism and Confucianism under the label of Toaism and Shenism.

My solution to this problem is that since in this mod we can add additional religions without removing preexisting religions, we should add the following relgions.
- Confucianism
- Shi'ite Islam
- Orthodoxy
- Hellenism

Also the Ancient Egyptians should respawn after the Arabs move their capital to Baghdad (10 turns later lets say or so), and become the (Shi'ite, if you include the religion) Fatimids, while the Arabs become the Abbasids controlling Mesopotamia/Syria;

It makes sense to add a respawn of Egypt. Heres wat I think should be done:

Name: Fattimids/Ayyubids/Malmuk Sultanate/Egypt
Leaderheads: Al-Muizz (import from Soi), Saladin, Muhammad Ali Pasha
UU: ?? (Perhaps the Malmuks (from SOI)) or Berber CalvaryAny Suggestion
UB: ??
UHV:- Control all of North Africa, Palestine, Syria and Hejaz: By 1000 ad
- Make Cairo the largest and most cultured city in 1300 ad
- Any Suggestions (Perhaps something to do with defending/defeating europe or the Ottomans)
Preferred Civic: Any Suggestions??
Start: 900 AD
Flip Area: Egypt and Eastern Libya; so most probably it will include Cairo, Alexandria and Benghazi
End: N/A

Additional Info:
Name Changes:
Fatimids from 900 to 1100 ad
Ayyubid: from 1100 to 1250
Malmuk: from 1250 to 1500
Vassals of Ottomans:Khedivate of Egypt
Vassals of Europeans (British): Kingdom of Egypt
Modern day Egypt: Arab Republic of Egypt.

Balancing Information:
-Stability hit during 1500 to 1900.
-Should not be too strong that the Ottomans cannot conquer them.
- If weak they should be likely to become Ottoman Vassal before 1800 or English vassals after 1800
- If dead they should have a rebirth in 1850 (independence from Ottomans) and maybe 1940 (Independence from British)

If u dont like some of the ideas, feel free to suggest or change. I just thought of these to get the ball rolling

[2phunkey4u]

Wouldn't respawning Egypt that early screw up Arabias conquest UHV? Furthermore, weren't the Fatimids a Berber dynasty, thus rather associated with a Carthage respawn (respresenting those dynasties, like Almohads, Hafsids etc.)? And the Ayyubids were Arabs, so no reason to split them off of Arabia, either (we're talking civilizations here). Mamluks make the most sense to me to respawn Egypt (in 1300 so that Arabia can still get their conquest UHV done).

[J. pride]

Originally Posted by 2phunkey4u

Wouldn't respawning Egypt that early screw up Arabias conquest UHV? Furthermore, weren't the Fatimids a Berber dynasty, thus rather associated with a Carthage respawn (respresenting those dynasties, like Almohads, Hafsids etc.)? And the Ayyubids were Arabs, so no reason to split them off of Arabia, either (we're talking civilizations here). Mamluks make the most sense to me to respawn Egypt (in 1300 so that Arabia can still get their conquest UHV done).

We will have to tweak the Uhvs a bit. With all these new resources and civilizations being added Uhvs of alot of countries will be have to tweaked abit.

As for the Fatimid, although they emerged from Tunisia their core territory was Egypt; (its like saying the Ottomans should emerge from Western China; or the French should emerge in Germany since the Franks conquered Gaul from the Romans) and besides they lost Tunis in less than 100 years while they controlled Egypt for far longer than that. When one thinks of Fatimids they dont think of Fatimids as a Tunisian dynasty but an Egyptian dynasty.

As for the Ayyubids are concerned, they were Kurdish not arab but thats not the point. Their core area was Egypt and Cairo was their capital. Anyways it is just a name change that can be removed if u like.

An Fatimid spawn will serve four purposes:
1) It will destabalize the Arabs, which in most games are there till the 1800s which is unhistorical and hinders Ottoman and later Persian (when added) expansion.
2) They will conquer and settle North Africa from the Byzantines; something Arabia has failed miseralbly.
3) It is historical and anyways it will make the game more fun and diverse.
4) anyways, 300 years is more that enough to complete the Arab Uhv. Plus, when Berbers are going to be added they will mess up arabian uhv as well but that doesnt mean that they shoudnt be added but it does mean that the Arab uhv should be tweaked a bit

[Gruekiller]

Perhaps there should be an option to switch to respawned civs like the Fatimids or late-game-Persians when they spawn?

[Leoreth]

Assuming you use DoC's rebirth mechanism for it, this happens automatically.

[Barratt_87]

I noticed in my last game as france (600ad start) that once embassies were available i was only able to build embassies for collapsed civs. Also, someone built terracotta armies and it kept popping up in my feed every turn 2-3 times per turn... is that supposed to happen?

When prussia/HRE are finally split will prussia be available from the menu or will we have to play the whole game and wait? (im hoping for from the menu on this one..) and what will their spawn date be?

[hoplitejoe]

An interesting idea for another religion came up in the DoC thread about a spilt in Buddhism. You might want to look at if your looking for more religions.

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by J. pride

I think Confucianism should be added back but not at the expense of Taoism because:
1) Confuciuas was a moral and philosophical teacher not a religous prophet.
2) Most people that follow Confucianistic teachings are follower Chinese Traditional Beliefs aka Taoism and Buddhism.

Actually most people in China follow a combination of Chinese Folklore, Taoism and Confucianism under the label of Toaism and Shenism.

My solution to this problem is that since in this mod we can add additional religions without removing preexisting religions, we should add the following relgions.
- Confucianism
- Shi'ite Islam
- Orthodoxy
- Hellenism

Ok I'm sorry but thats complete rubbish...

Spoiler:

Chinese Folklore =/= Taoism (Taoism was started by Lao Zi a philosopher, not about Gods)

But because I just found out that we can actually have more religions, therefore we don't need to argue about it anymore. Also I would go further to say that Taoism should be completely removed, and instead Buddhism should be split up into Mahayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism. Mahayana Buddhism is the type of Buddhism which celebrates Buddha as a God, and which has spread to China, Korea, Japan and Mongolia (sorta).
Theravada Buddhism is that type of Buddhism which celebrates Buddha as more of a philosopher-Saint and spread to India, Sri Lanka (which should be made more accessible), Khmer and South East Asia in general.
This split would make a real divide in the Buddhist world, and it would be interesting to watch, especially if you start China with Buddhism in 600 AD start (like it had historically)

So my list of religions would be:

- Shi'ite Islam
- Orthodoxy
- Hellenism
- Judaism (as a minor religion, which spreads on its own)
-Mahayana Buddhism (replaces useless and ahistorically spread Taoism)
- Theravada Buddhism (replaces regular Buddhism)
- Andean Religion (whatever its called; when the Europeans conquer a city it will disappear)


Also I would strongly encourage the Conquistador event to come with Christian Missionaries from Europe, perhaps 2-3 of them.

And yes I agree with J.Pride on the Egyptian Sultanates idea, and yes I believe it can be changed. I would although say that perhaps a conditional spawn for them would be better

PS:

Spoiler:

Many countries in East Asia celebrate Buddhas birthday and in China they celebrate Confucius' Birthday with a day off; BUT no one celebrates Lao Zi birthday...

[J. pride]

- Judaism (as a minor religion, which spreads on its own)

I like ur idea about Buddhism but im having my doubts on Judaism . Unless there is a mechanic which does not allow Judaism to spread to more than 2-4 cities than id rather not have Judaism.

All the other religions on that list are there for a reason to help game play but I dont see how Judaism is going to help with anything?

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by J. pride

I like ur idea about Buddhism but im having my doubts on Judaism . Unless there is a mechanic which does not allow Judaism to spread to more than 2-4 cities than id rather not have Judaism.

All the other religions on that list are there for a reason to help game play but I dont see how Judaism is going to help with anything?

I mean, I'm fine leaving Judaism out, but if you have it as a minor religion like in SoI (as in you can't spread the religion), then I think its fine. You can just grab the code which forces Judaism to be spread only among a few cities and when its persecuted, then it is uplifted and moves to another city. I just think denying a large religion in the world would be kinda silly, especially when there is an easy way out of it.

Anyway can we have a response from the game creator to see what he thinks about our ideas, as I would prefer them not to go to waste.

[J. pride]

The following pictures show the resource changes i would like to see:

-Moved the Fish, Added wheat.
-Removed the sheep from Mecca.
-Moved the stone and added a sheep in Baghdad

[BenZL43]

I'm a Chinese descendant living in an Asian country, and most of my elder are following the teaching of Confucius (Indonesian : Kong Hu Cu), even Confucianism has been recognized as 1 of the 6 religion my country recognize, beside Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and Islam, as stated in . Personally, I rarely heard, and seen, people who adores Taoism as their religion, the only common place I heard about Taoism is in Tai Chi or Yoga course, which stated the balance of Yin Yang etc..

More info about Confucianism in Indonesia : http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_Kong_Hu_Cu

[BenZL43]

Isn't Temple of Solomon can only be built in Jewish holy city, btw ?
If it spawn with Yerushalayim, means that
India can't found Judaism
or
still can found Judaism but can't built the Temple of Solomon ?

[Leoreth]

Originally Posted by The Turk

Ok I'm sorry but thats complete rubbish...

Spoiler:

Chinese Folklore =/= Taoism (Taoism was started by Lao Zi a philosopher, not about Gods)

You apparently didn't read what he wrote:

Actually most people in China follow a combination of Chinese Folklore, Taoism and Confucianism under the label of Toaism and Shenism.

Originally Posted by The Turk

I just think denying a large religion in the world would be kinda silly, especially when there is an easy way out of it.

Only 0.2% of the world population are Jewish, none of the ingame civilization ever had a Jewish state religion. There are almost twice as many adherents to Sikhism, for example, as well.

Originally Posted by BenZL43

Isn't Temple of Solomon can only be built in Jewish holy city, btw ?
If it spawn with Yerushalayim, means that
India can't found Judaism
or
still can found Judaism but can't built the Temple of Solomon ?

Judaism is no religion in this modmod anymore, and the Temple of Solomon is only a wonder that spawns in Jerusalem to represent it.