Project SYNTHESIS

[merijn_v1]

Maybe one of the JARM religions is good.

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by hoplitejoe

Orthodoxy should be added and Judaism and Confucianism should be reinstated. maybe some sort of northern European Wicca thing could be added? or something representing the Aztec/Mayan beliefs?

Originally Posted by merijn_v1

Maybe one of the JARM religions is good.

I'll probably reinstate Judaism and Confucianism, although the former will be a minor religion that spreads randomly like in RFCE:E. I'll probably also add the Sunni/ Shi'ite split.

Anyone have any ideas on what tech would cause the Islam split?

EDIT: Or better, perhaps an automatic prescripted split in 632?

[hoplitejoe]

if you have lots of religons make sure the diplo penalty's aren't all over harsh or trade will be almost impossible around the middle ages.

[need my speed]

Or better, make the AI smarter. For example, England is Buddhist and has 1 Buddhist city and 1 Islam city. Everyone in Europe however, is Islam.

[Linkman226]

Great news guys! I've just finished porting over potatoes, tea, coffee, tobacco, and timber from RFC:E (also in RFCM:BWS). Some screenies:

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by hoplitejoe

if you have lots of religons make sure the diplo penalty's aren't all over harsh or trade will be almost impossible around the middle ages.

The plan is this:

Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
I may also have a 'pagan' religion to reprsent a lot of the other stuff... but pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different. Paganism won't have a holy city either.

Originally Posted by need my speed

Or better, make the AI smarter. For example, England is Buddhist and has 1 Buddhist city and 1 Islam city. Everyone in Europe however, is Islam.

Would require coding skill I currently lack, but sure, in the future.

EDIT: A note on timber: I'll probably change the improvement needed to access it (so that it's available earlier), and make it so that it hurries certain wonders. Also, I'll probably make it so that chopping the timber tile will result in losing the timber.

[civ_king]

Originally Posted by JiimBV

I would defend the Mughal Empire as a reasonable rebirth; however, I realized that India needs space for colonization. I think a normal respawn OR a rebirth as the (British/Portuguese/Whatever) Raj -> modern India would work. Let me explain.

The Raj would be a unique playable nation, as it would spawn in 1860 as a vassal to the most prominent nation in India, be it Portugal, Britain, the Netherlands, France or even Iran or Khmer. It would spawn over Delhi and Mumbai and be given one city of its masters' within India. The Raj would have to meet the demands of its master and fight the wars of its master, and would be unable to declare independence. Then in the 20s-30s, the Raj would declare independence automatically (lacks a certain truthiness, I know) and declare war upon its owner state. Along with this date, the name would change, the leader would change to Gandhi (or it would be Gandhi the whole time, it depends on leaderhead availability), and two great people would spawn: Great Artist Rabindranath Tagore and Great General Subash Chandra Bose.

UHV:
1. Control the Indian subcontinent by 1950
2. Have 1 billion people in 1990 OR Be the most populous country in 1990
3. Have the highest score in 2000

That'd be PRETTY AWESOME. You can't deny. Also, should I be suggesting all these things on DoC rather than here? xD

Why not have it represent South Asia?

Originally Posted by Krug

Name: Safavids/Qajar/Iran
Leaders: (Ismāil I|Until 1742)(1742–1941: Mohammad Khan Qajar)(1941-:Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi)(If Government is Theocratic: Ruhollah Khomeini)
Leader Traits:
UU: Qizilbash (Rifleman, Starts with City Raider I)
UB: Caravanserai (Market with +30% +10% )
UP:
UHV:- Ensure Baghdad, Kabul, and Samarkand are 100% Persian in 1700 AD
- Make Islam the only Religion in Iran in 1750 AD
- Control all of The Arabian Peninsula, Jerusalem, and Anatolia in 1945 AD
Preferred Civic: (Shahs- Absolutism, Khomenini- Theocracy Equivilent)
Start: 1501 AD
End: N/A
-------------------------------
While I know it's supposed to be the Safavids, I incoroporated the Qajars and late Iran in this too for longevity's sake. UP and Traits have not been added because I'm lazy. I'm not sure if the Qizilbash ever used guns, but it wouldn't make much since, and they would have much of a use, if they we're made Maces or Pikes.

UHV1 can't work because there is no way to get rid of independent culture except through spawn culture.

Originally Posted by hoplitejoe

Orthodoxy should be added and Judaism and Confucianism should be reinstated. maybe some sort of northern European Wicca thing could be added? or something representing the Aztec/Mayan beliefs?

Why would you implement 20th century Neopaganism? (Wicca)

Originally Posted by Linkman226

Great news guys! I've just finished porting over potatoes, tea, coffee, tobacco, and timber from RFC:E (also in RFCM:BWS). Some screenies:

Spoiler:

The plan is this:

Sunni and Shi'ite leaders get a penalty, but it's halved.
Orthodox leaders get a bonus with Catholics and Protestants, but its halved.
Confucians, Taoists, and Buddhists get a bonus with each other, but it's halved.
Hindus and Buddhists get a quartered bonus.
Hindus, Confucians, and Taoists get a quartered penalty.
Catholics and Prots. get a halved penalty (not a full penalty, like in DoC)
I may also have a 'pagan' religion to reprsent a lot of the other stuff... but pagan leaders will actually get a small negative penalty against each other because the various pagan religions of the world are different. Paganism won't have a holy city either.



Would require coding skill I currently lack, but sure, in the future.

EDIT: A note on timber: I'll probably change the improvement needed to access it (so that it's available earlier), and make it so that it hurries certain wonders. Also, I'll probably make it so that chopping the timber tile will result in losing the timber.

Capital!

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by civ_king

Why not have it represent South Asia?

India already kinda represents all of S. Asia

Originally Posted by civ_king

UHV1 can't work because there is no way to get rid of independent culture except through spawn culture.

Really? I was unaware of this... I thought that Indie culture just went away over time just like regular foreign culture.

Originally Posted by civ_king

Why would you implement 20th century Neopaganism? (Wicca)

Lol that's what I was thinking too. Unless he means earlier pagan religions.

Originally Posted by civ_king

Capital!

I presume, by your word choice, you're referring to the introduction of tea ?

Oh, and on another note, I was thinking that 'Atheism' might be a possible 'religion' to implement. Founded via scientific method, no holy shrine, no buildings, no anything special EXCEPT that it slowly causes religions in cities to die. I personally am not too sure if it would be a good addition however. Opinions?

Also, when would you like the release to be? I was thinking the eleventh would be good.

[J. pride]

Conversion by the sword, if you get my drift. There wouldn't be nearly as many Muslims in India, and Afghanistan would still be Hindu/ Buddhist if it weren't for the damned Mughals, Timurids, etc.

I sense a bit of a bias here. Anyways muslims only constitute 13% of India (maybe 15 to 17% if u include Bangladesh and Nepal). Percentage wise thats the same as Russia (12%) and a bit more than France (9%). Proportionally, Muslims only constitute a sight minority in India. Maybe You can include Islam (in addition to Hinduism) in one Indian city (perhaps one in a region with a large Muslim minority).

NOW here's where i strongly disagree with you. Afghanistan has a totally different culture/language/ people than India. The Mughals were from Afghanistan and the Timurid capital was in Herat, Afghanistan. The religion of Afghanistan depended on its rulers, as this small chronography will display.
1) The Achaemenid Empire conquers Afghanistan and the chief religion is Zoroastrianism. Note many historians believe Zoroaster was born in either Arachosia, Sistan-Balochistan or Bactria. (Region within or in close proximity to Afghanistan and even Pakistan.
2) Alexander conquers Afghanistan (everything west of Indus) and Hellenism is mixed with local religions.
3) Mauryan conquer Afghanistan and Pakistan and spread Buddhism to the region.
4) The Persian Parthians, Kushans and Sassanids conquer Afghanistan (and Pakistan) and Zoroastrianism and Hellenized Buddhism become the main religions of the region.
5) The Arabs conquer the region and Islam replaces Buddhism and Zoroastarianism as the main religion.

As you can see Afghanistan was a region with many different religion and buddhism was just one of them. And i really dont see the difference between arabs conquering and spreading their relgion vs the Mauryan Indian conquering the region and spreading their religion. Although, I agree with Islam being spread to India by force (somewhat).

You can show Afghanistan's religious diversity on the map by spawning a Taxila with Zoroastarianism and Buddhism (not hinduism). The spawn would have to after the spawn of Persia since Zoroastrianism isnt founded before this

[JiimBV]

Originally Posted by civ_king

Why not have it represent South Asia?

Um, because South Asia isn't a civilization? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Linkman, the nations you've given me don't have civ-specific Great People lists yet, as the two mods that included this feature stopped updating before Beyond the Sword came out. However, I did spend a little while trying to find Ethiopian ones, and this is what I've come up with:

Great Artists:
-Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin
-Afewerk Tekle
-Alexander Boghossian
-Adamu Tesfaw
-Gebre Kristos Desta

Great Engineers:
-King Ezana
-Fasiledes
-Gebre Mesqel Lalibela

Great Generals:
-Yohannes IV
-Yekuno Amlak
-Iyasu I
-Amda Seyon I
-Eskender
-Tewodros II

Great Merchants:
-Mohammed Al Amoudi
-Queen of Sheba

Great Prophets:
-Samuel of Dabra Wagag
-Ewostatewos
-Abuna Theophilos
-Gabra Manfas Qeddus
-Yared

Great Scientists:
-Kitaw Ejigu
-Gebise Ejeta
-Sossina M. Haile
-Tilahun Yilma
-Aklilu Lemma

Great Spies:
-Yodit
-Shewa Regged

Where would you put Haile Selassie?

Also, artists and scientists are only modern, if that's OK. I couldn't find any otherwise. And not all too many of these people are "great" by my standards, but they are the greatest among Ethiopians, at least among those we know about and those I can find fairly easily.

[JiimBV]

Also, I would consider putting Hellenism from RFCC in as a religion. It would give conflict between the Zoroastrians and the Greeks early on, as well as giving the Mediterranean a religion previous to the arrival of Catholicism. Since it's over-ridden with the spread of Catholicism, one wouldn't have to worry about it surviving into the Medieval Era.

[civ_king]

Originally Posted by Linkman226

India already kinda represents all of S. Asia

I know, but he only described India not South Asia

Originally Posted by Linkman226

Really? I was unaware of this... I thought that Indie culture just went away over time just like regular foreign culture.

It might, but you can't expedite the process by killing the civ

Originally Posted by Linkman226

Lol that's what I was thinking too. Unless he means earlier pagan religions.

Maybe

Originally Posted by Linkman226

I presume, by your word choice, you're referring to the introduction of tea ?

Are you racially stereotyping me because I'm Indian, am a citizen of Canada and drink black tea in the morning and afternoon??
J/K (on the racist part)

Originally Posted by Linkman226

Oh, and on another note, I was thinking that 'Atheism' might be a possible 'religion' to implement. Founded via scientific method, no holy shrine, no buildings, no anything special EXCEPT that it slowly causes religions in cities to die. I personally am not too sure if it would be a good addition however. Opinions?

Also, when would you like the release to be? I was thinking the eleventh would be good.

Doesn't seem to add much

The eleventh seems like a good deadline to prevent scope creep

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by J. pride

I sense a bit of a bias here.

I may be Indian, but I'm neither Muslim, nor Hindu, nor Buddhist, nor Sikh, nor of any religion. I am an atheist and therefore I feel I am unbiased in the manner. My poor treatment of Mughals, Timurids, etc. comes from their poor human rights records, even by the standards of their times.

I'm not even a patriot; I think patriotism is the scourge of humanity. What I am, however, is a humanist, and this means I abhor people who who don't respect the rights of others.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Anyways muslims only constitute 13% of India (maybe 15 to 17% if u include Bangladesh and Nepal). Percentage wise thats the same as Russia (12%) and a bit more than France (9%).

First of all you forget Pakistan, the biggest Muslim nation there, WHICH by the way, used to be part of India. You also have to take into account that 13% of India's 1.2 billion people means a lot more people than than the equivalent percentage in most other countries. Most importantly, Islam in India is growing at an astonishing 36.0% annually. That's more than any other single religion in India.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Proportionally, Muslims only constitute a sight minority in India. Maybe You can include Islam (in addition to Hinduism) in one Indian city (perhaps one in a region with a large Muslim minority).

The goal would be to make sure Islam spreads to every Indian city EXCEPT for one, rather than the other way around.

NOW here's where i strongly disagree with you. Afghanistan has a totally different culture/language/ people than India. The Mughals were from Afghanistan and the Timurid capital was in Herat, Afghanistan. The religion of Afghanistan depended on its rulers, as this small chronography will display.
1) The Achaemenid Empire conquers Afghanistan and the chief religion is Zoroastrianism. Note many historians believe Zoroaster was born in either Arachosia, Sistan-Balochistan or Bactria. (Region within or in close proximity to Afghanistan and even Pakistan.
2) Alexander conquers Afghanistan (everything west of Indus) and Hellenism is mixed with local religions.
3) Mauryan conquer Afghanistan and Pakistan and spread Buddhism to the region.
4) The Persian Parthians, Kushans and Sassanids conquer Afghanistan (and Pakistan) and Zoroastrianism and Hellenized Buddhism become the main religions of the region.
5) The Arabs conquer the region and Islam replaces Buddhism and Zoroastarianism as the main religion.

As I said, Afghanistan USED to be of Hindu strain. It isn't anymore thanks to, largely, the Arab invasion.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Although, I agree with Islam being spread to India by force (somewhat).

Somewhat? I have one word for you, and one word only: Aurangzeb.

Originally Posted by J. pride

You can show Afghanistan's religious diversity on the map by spawning a Taxila with Zoroastarianism and Buddhism (not hinduism). The spawn would have to after the spawn of Persia since Zoroastrianism isnt founded before this

Sure, but Hinduism too. The addition of inquisitors would make it go away however.

Originally Posted by JiimBV

Linkman, the nations you've given me don't have civ-specific Great People lists yet, as the two mods that included this feature stopped updating before Beyond the Sword came out. However, I did spend a little while trying to find Ethiopian ones, and this is what I've come up with:

Great Artists:
-Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin
-Afewerk Tekle
-Alexander Boghossian
-Adamu Tesfaw
-Gebre Kristos Desta

Great Engineers:
-King Ezana
-Fasiledes
-Gebre Mesqel Lalibela

Great Generals:
-Yohannes IV
-Yekuno Amlak
-Iyasu I
-Amda Seyon I
-Eskender
-Tewodros II

Great Merchants:
-Mohammed Al Amoudi
-Queen of Sheba

Great Prophets:
-Samuel of Dabra Wagag
-Ewostatewos
-Abuna Theophilos
-Gabra Manfas Qeddus
-Yared

Great Scientists:
-Kitaw Ejigu
-Gebise Ejeta
-Sossina M. Haile
-Tilahun Yilma
-Aklilu Lemma

Great Spies:
-Yodit
-Shewa Regged

Where would you put Haile Selassie?

Also, artists and scientists are only modern, if that's OK. I couldn't find any otherwise. And not all too many of these people are "great" by my standards, but they are the greatest among Ethiopians, at least among those we know about and those I can find fairly easily.

Thanks! This will help out a lot. Personally I'd make Selassie a GG.

If you could do the same for the other civs I'd listed, that'd be great!

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by JiimBV

Also, I would consider putting Hellenism from RFCC in as a religion. It would give conflict between the Zoroastrians and the Greeks early on, as well as giving the Mediterranean a religion previous to the arrival of Catholicism. Since it's over-ridden with the spread of Catholicism, one wouldn't have to worry about it surviving into the Medieval Era.

Sure. Probably the mechanism to replace Hellenism is beyond my coding knowledge, but since I'm learning more and more programming each day, it will be included- just not any time soon.

A general question- Any dynamic name change suggestions?
Any other suggestions?

[J. pride]

First of all you forget Pakistan, the biggest Muslim nation there, WHICH by the way, used to be part of India. You also have to take into account that 13% of India's 1.2 billion people means a lot more people than than the equivalent percentage in most other countries. Most importantly, Islam in India is growing at an astonishing 36.0% annually. That's more than any other single religion in India.

I didnt include pakistan for a reason. Pakistan was also part of Achaemenid Empire, Alexenders Empire, Greek Empire, Gereco-Bactarian kingdoms; Iranian Kingdom (Sythians, Parthians, Kushans, Sassanids), Arabs and Ghaznavids. There are only three instances in history when Pakistan was part of of India: Mauryas, Mughals and the British. Anyways Western Pakistan was a core part of Persia.

As I said, Afghanistan USED to be of Hindu strain. It isn't anymore thanks to, largely, the Arab invasion.

Thats like saying Zoroastrianism should be spread in China because a small minority of Chinese embraced Zoroastrianism because of the silk road. Or that Kiev should spawn with Islam because of the Tatars. Hinduism had a very small if not any part in history of Afghanistan. For most of its history it was part of the Persian Empire; and when it was part of the Indian Empire it was when India was buddhist. Just a century before the Arab conquest, there are accounts of Chinese monks travelling to Gandhara (Eastern Afghanistan) and describing their Buddhist heritage. There was mention of Zoroastarians but not Hindus.Hellenism had more impact in Afghanistan than Hinduism as shown by the excavation of statues Hellenistic gods in the region. I highly advise you not to add Hinduism to Afghanistan.

[JiimBV]

Portugal

Great Artists:
-Nuno Goncalves
-Machado de Castro
-Amadeo de Souza Cardoso
-Almada Negreiros
-Joao de Barros
-Zeca Afonso
-Nadir Afonso

Great Engineers:
-Diogo Boitac
-Mateus Fernandes
-Afonso Alvares
-Joao Antunes
-Alvaro Siza Vieira
-Diogo de Arruda

Great Generals:
-Afonso I
-Viriathus
-Alvaro Vaz de Almada
-Carvalho
-Nuno Alvares Pereira
-Joao III
-Joao IV

Great Merchants:
-Vasco de Gama
-Henry the Navigator
-Ferdinand Magellan
-Pedro Alvares Cabral
-Afonso de Albuquerque
-Fernao Mendes Pinto
-Bartolomeu Dias

Great Prophets:
-Elizabeth of Portugal
-Anthony of Lisbon
-Saint Rudesind
-Quiteria
-Peter of Rates
-John de Brito
-Pope Damascus I

Great Scientists:
-Abel Salazar
-Jacob de Castro Sarmento
-Antonio Egas Moniz
-Garcia de Orta
-Bartolomeu de Gusmao
-Pedro Nunes
-Antonio Sergio

Great Spies:
-Ralf
-Garbo
-Christopher Columbus
-Antonio Salazar
-Marcello Caetano

__________________________________________________ ______________________

This was rather easy compared to Ethiopia.

Christopher Columbus is included because of the many books published claiming he was a Portuguese spy. You can remove him if you wish to.

I shall try both the Khmer and Maya now, and see which one is easier, and then MAYBE I'll do it tonight. Maybe not.

[Gruekiller]

This mod sounds amazing. I look forward to downloading it with bated breath.

[Krug]

Originally Posted by Linkman226

I'll probably reinstate Judaism and Confucianism, although the former will be a minor religion that spreads randomly like in RFCE:E. I'll probably also add the Sunni/ Shi'ite split.

Anyone have any ideas on what tech would cause the Islam split?

EDIT: Or better, perhaps an automatic prescripted split in 632?

Just go with a Prescrpited split, as there was really no pinpoint tech cause for the Split, other than argument over Divine Right. But this already founds Islam.

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by J. pride

I didnt include pakistan for a reason. Pakistan was also part of Achaemenid Empire, Alexenders Empire, Greek Empire, Gereco-Bactarian kingdoms; Iranian Kingdom (Sythians, Parthians, Kushans, Sassanids), Arabs and Ghaznavids. There are only three instances in history when Pakistan was part of of India: Mauryas, Mughals and the British. Anyways Western Pakistan was a core part of Persia....
Hinduism had a very small if not any part in history of Afghanistan. For most of its history it was part of the Persian Empire; and when it was part of the Indian Empire it was when India was buddhist. Just a century before the Arab conquest, there are accounts of Chinese monks travelling to Gandhara (Eastern Afghanistan) and describing their Buddhist heritage. There was mention of Zoroastarians but not Hindus.Hellenism had more impact in Afghanistan than Hinduism as shown by the excavation of statues Hellenistic gods in the region.

Gandhara was for a time Hindu.

A map of various ancient Aryan kingdoms, from Bangladesh to Afghanistan. All Hindu.

Refer to the wikipedia page Greater India

Refer to the Wikipedia page Hindustan.

Pakistan is culturally rooted to India, Afghanistan once was too (still is, but to a far lesser extent).
Pakistan was, since time immemorial considered part of India; the concept of Pakistan as seperate from India is a recent invention.
If you've played RFC:A or SoI, most of the Indian kingdoms stretch well into Pakistan.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Thats like saying Zoroastrianism should be spread in China because a small minority of Chinese embraced Zoroastrianism because of the silk road. Or that Kiev should spawn with Islam because of the Tatars.

That's where the inquisitor feature comes in.

Originally Posted by J. pride

I highly advise you not to add Hinduism to Afghanistan.

I probably won't but the hope is it will spread. However, Taxila will have Hinduism.

Originally Posted by JiimBV

This was rather easy compared to Ethiopia.

So I would imagine

Originally Posted by JiimBV

Christopher Columbus is included because of the many books published claiming he was a Portuguese spy. You can remove him if you wish to.

Eh.... Only a few books... I might include him.

I shall try both the Khmer and Maya now, and see which one is easier, and then MAYBE I'll do it tonight. Maybe not.[/QUOTE]

Ok, thanks. Keep up the good work!

Originally Posted by Gruekiller

This mod sounds amazing. I look forward to downloading it with bated breath.

Glad to hear!

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by Krug

Just go with a Prescrpited split, as there was really no pinpoint tech cause for the Split, other than argument over Divine Right. But this already founds Islam.

Makes sense.

[JiimBV]

Khmer:

Great Artists:
-Thommaracha

Great Engineers:
-Indravarman I
-Yasovarman I
-Suryavarman I
-Suryavarman II
-Udayadityavarman II

Great Generals:
-Jayavarman II
-Vinyanandana
-Rajendravarman II
-Bhavavarman I

Great Merchants:
-Srindravarman

Great Prophets:
-Kirtipandita
-Prince Tamalinda
-Jayavarman VII
-Ponhea Yat

Great Scientists:
-Jayavarman V

Great Spies:
-Prince In

__________________________________________________ ______________________

The problem with Khmer, is that other than the names of Kings and some few princes, very little was recorded. The "great scientist" I have and the "great spy" I have are stretches to say the least. And somehow, Thommaracha is the only recorded author of any work of Khmer art, his being a poem.

I am sure that the list above is basically the extent that list will get if I remain within the Khmer empire itself.

To expand upon this list, would you suggest I include other Cambodian civilizations that existed previous to colonization? Or should it be left alone and let Khmer have very few GPs? The problem with that would be that there aren't enough Great Artists, and Great Artists are one of the few things a human Khmer would spawn. I am at a loss. Show me the way, O Linkman!