Project SYNTHESIS

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by J. pride

What do u mean by that

Independent city spawn.

Originally Posted by Gruekiller

Personally, I'd prefer Sweden to Denmark/Norway.

By democratic vote, I suppose that's what it'll be.

Originally Posted by Llama231

Are we assuming that the new responds are mostly conditional spawns?

Yes. In fact none will be playable from the main menu; you can only play them if they happen to spawn in your game.

Originally Posted by SouthernKing

I like the True Prophets idea, as long as we can find a way to incorporate the new religions into it plus the Sunni/Shiite and Catholic/Orthodox schisms as well as the Reformation.

Sure. Probably the religion splits won't even be initiated by GP; they'll be prescripted.

Originally Posted by SouthernKing

Oh and if you need a better name than Synthesis, I propose Rhye's and Fall Xpanded (RFX)

I'll keep it in mind haha

Originally Posted by JiimBV

Iran:]
Yes, I know Maya is incomplete. After a day of searching, the list is still here. Most of them are Wikipedia-verified, a couple are kinda iffy. But don't question them. It's all we've got. And I'm giving up on them, at least until EVERYTHING else is done. Someone else can give them a try.

What is the current list of Civs that will almost definitely be in Synthesis, and still need GP lists (presumably, like Mexico and Maya)?

Great job, as always! I understand that the Mayans are probably difficult.

In any event, no NEW civs will be in the next release (aside from what Leoreth put in in DoC) which is v.001. Check the OP (original post) periodically for things that are going to be in the next release.

[J. pride]

I know that u guys are working hard on finding great people for civs that we have little to no info on. But is it possibe to have the actual great people from that civ spawn first. then the people around that civ from the same time period and then the people modern day. Do u get wat i mean (its hard to explain).

Or another option is to base great people by the time period.

So a renaissance Rome could have Michelangelo even though he wasnt born in the Roman Empire

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by J. pride

I know that u guys are working hard on finding great people for civs that we have little to no info on. But is it possibe to have the actual great people from that civ spawn first. then the people around that civ from the same time period and then the people modern day. Do u get wat i mean (its hard to explain).

Or another option is to base great people by the time period.

So a renaissance Rome could have Michelangelo even though he wasnt born in the Roman Empire

Yes, there is an order to it.

[Leoreth]

The problem with that is only that there are a certain number of names which are used one after another. Which means when there are many Renaissance names, Renaissance names come up even in later eras, and if there are too few, later names appear already in the Renaissance. It's difficult to completely anticipate and balance this.

[SouthernKing]

What I was thinking w as that we could have regional gp lists instead of civ-specific ones.

[Leoreth]

You mean based on the city the GP is born in, opposed to the civ he belongs to? That's a great idea actually.

[hoplitejoe]

enjoy finding a great artist, spy, engineer, prophet, scientist, general and merchant from Novosibirsk

[Leoreth]

I didn't mean it to be THAT precise

But what you easily could do is:

GP is born -> look in which city he's born -> is it in someone's core? use their list. Else: use your own list. (other criteria like city's dominant culture are possible as well of course)

That would have the effect of French great people being born in French cities even when controlled by Germany or the like, which makes some kind of sense to me.

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by Leoreth

I didn't mean it to be THAT precise

But what you easily could do is:

GP is born -> look in which city he's born -> is it in someone's core? use their list. Else: use your own list. (other criteria like city's dominant culture are possible as well of course)

That would have the effect of French great people being born in French cities even when controlled by Germany or the like, which makes some kind of sense to me.

This idea sounds fantastic.

[SouthernKing]

Also what I was thinking is that if we have civs like the Maya where we don't have a full GP list we can merge it with that of a civ that is nearby. For example, we could have a combined Mesoamerican list that both the Aztecs and Mayans could draw out of.

[Linkman226]

Originally Posted by SouthernKing

Also what I was thinking is that if we have civs like the Maya where we don't have a full GP list we can merge it with that of a civ that is nearby. For example, we could have a combined Mesoamerican list that both the Aztecs and Mayans could draw out of.

If the list is too short, this works.

[Leoreth]

Although this is difficult to implement given the way the renaming algorithm currently works.

[Linkman226]

I just compiled my first ever DLL!

I feel so proud!

[Gruekiller]

*high five*

[Linkman226]

Guys if any you have skinning/ art skills I could use a little help. Currently the Protestant Inquisitor unit has the artwork of the Jewish inquisitor, and the Zoroastrian inquisitor has the artwork of the Confucian inquisitor. If someone could reskin those two, that'd be awesome.

Also, what do you guys think of this idea:

Counter-reformation Event
Triggered 5 turns (or perhaps '5 years' is better, to keep it constant across all game speeds) after Reformation
Catholic countries who accept get three inquisitors in their capital, one free Holy Office (the building required for Inquisitors) (in a city that does not have it), a negative diplo hit with Protestant countries, and a positive diplo bonus with Catholic leaders (plus gold, indirectly, because Inquisitors collect gold from performing Inquisitions).
Catholic countries who reject the opportunity get a hit with other Catholic countries, but avoid the instability and unhappiness caused by inquisitions.

Probably I'd hardcode the AI to go with option 1.

[SouthernKing]

Originally Posted by Linkman226

Guys if any you have skinning/ art skills I could use a little help. Currently the Protestant Inquisitor unit has the artwork of the Jewish inquisitor, and the Zoroastrian inquisitor has the artwork of the Confucian inquisitor. If someone could reskin those two, that'd be awesome.

Also, what do you guys think of this idea:

Counter-reformation Event
Triggered 5 turns (or perhaps '5 years' is better, to keep it constant across all game speeds) after Reformation
Catholic countries who accept get three inquisitors in their capital, one free Holy Office (the building required for Inquisitors) (in a city that does not have it), a negative diplo hit with Protestant countries, and a positive diplo bonus with Catholic leaders (plus gold, indirectly, because Inquisitors collect gold from performing Inquisitions).
Catholic countries who reject the opportunity get a hit with other Catholic countries, but avoid the instability and unhappiness caused by inquisitions.

Probably I'd hardcode the AI to go with option 1.

Good idea. The thirty years war was an important event in European history and was not in RFC and didn't really happen in my (relatively few) playthroughs of RFC Europe. This will make it more important of a choice whether or not to switch to Protestantism or not.

[Linkman226]

Come to think of it, I might even make it a war between Prots. and Catholics.

I wonder how that would affect balance though.

[J. pride]

Just a few suggestions regarding the Middle East and North Africa.

1) Ideas were thrown around for the rebirth for different civs.( i dont exactly know what u mean by rebirth; if its in only 600 Ad, if its a whole diff civ like the Italian with new leaderhead, building, unit)
If the rebirth is like that of the Italians then here are my suggestions:
1) Carthage should respawn as Almorovids (they can change names as time goes along just like Iran). The reason i say this is because Carthage is supposed to represent North Western Africa and from 600 ad onwards it was the Berber North African kingdoms that represented Maghrib (north-western Africa). Anyways both Tunisia or Lebanon are recently formed states that have had little impact before 1900s; so even if Moroccan kingdoms are a geographical stretch it is an even bigger historical stretch to include Lebanon. it would be much better for gameplay reasons to spawn as the Berbers and try to conquer Iberia and Mali or spawn as spain and complete the reconquista. I dont want a Cordoban civ because Iberia is not the homeland of Berbers and Iberian peninsula is already too crowded.

2) Babylon as Iraq. Im going to use the same logic as the previous one. Iraq is insignificant and Arabia already represent the Abbasids ( historical timeperiod is too close for Abbasid to spawn anyways). The only two realistic options for gameplay and historical reasons are the Fatimids(also includes Malmuks/name change should do) and the Central Asian Timurids (also includes Emirate of Bukhara/ name change). My personal vote goes for Central Asian Emirate but both will suffice especially due to the lack of civs in the region in 600 Ad scinerio.
3). Persia as Iran: agree with Linkman that names should be changed according to time period. Although i do want to change Uhv.

We can discuss the Historical Goals, spawns, leaderheads, units, buildings if u guys agree. If approved, I will discuss the following in a few days timeperiod.

P.s: Italian spawn should be moved back, Harrappa probably shouldnt be represented just like the Hitites to make room for Iran, India and Arabia

[Linkman226]

Guys I've created a wikispaces page to suggest new ideas. Write now all ideas concerning COUNTRIES or RESPAWNS should be discussed there, as I won't be doing countries/ respawns for a bit, and I'd rather not have really good ideas suggested now get lost in the forum when I'm looking for them a month from now.

Originally Posted by J. pride

Just a few suggestions regarding the Middle East and North Africa.

1) Ideas were thrown around for the rebirth for different civs.( i dont exactly know what u mean by rebirth; if its in only 600 Ad, if its a whole diff civ like the Italian with new leaderhead, building, unit)
If the rebirth is like that of the Italians then here are my suggestions:
1) Carthage should respawn as Almorovids (they can change names as time goes along just like Iran). The reason i say this is because Carthage is supposed to represent North Western Africa and from 600 ad onwards it was the Berber North African kingdoms that represented Maghrib (north-western Africa). Anyways neither Tunisia or Lebanon are recently formed states that have had little impact before 1900s; so even if Moroccan kingdoms are a geographical stretch it is an even bigger historical stretch to include Lebanon. Anyways it would be much better for gameplay reasons to spawn as the Berbers and try to conquer Iberia and Mali or spawn as spain and complete the reconquista. I dont want a Cordoban civ because Iberia is not the homeland of Berbers and Iberian peninsula is already too crowded.

Yes, like the Italians.

Considering that a respawn is effectively the creation of a whole new civ, I might try that (the Almoravids idea).

Originally Posted by J. pride

2) Babylon as Iraq. Im going to use the same logic as the previous one. Iraq is insignificant and Arabia already represent the Abbasids ( historical timeperiod is too close for Abbasid to spawn anyways). The only two realistic options for gameplay and historical reasons are the Fatimids(also includes Malmuks/name change should do) and the Central Asian Timurids (also includes Emirate of Bukhara/ name change). My personal vote goes for Central Asia Emirate but both will suffice especially due to the lack of (muslim or any) civs in the game in 600 Ad scinerio.

To be honest I was thinking of making a brand new Central Asian civ (rather than merely a rebirth). Got suggestions? Put them in the wiki.

Originally Posted by J. pride

We can discuss the Historical Goals, spawns, leaderheads, units, buildings if u guys agree. If approved, I will discuss the following in a few days timeperiod.

In the wiki.

Originally Posted by J. pride

P.s: Italian spawn should be moved back, Harrappa probably shouldnt be represented just like the Hitites to make room for Iran, India and Arabia

I thought that moving the Italian spawn forward would be a better idea. Why do you prefer that the spawn be moved back?
Personally I thought that the Hittites would be a good idea to be in the game as Indie cities, mostly to prevent Phoenician colonization of that area.

[J. pride]

I thought that moving the Italian spawn forward would be a better idea. Why do you prefer that the spawn be moved back?
Personally I thought that the Hittites would be a good idea to be in the game as Indie cities, mostly to prevent Phoenician colonization of that area.

I meant moved back as in to happening later. I was trying to say the same thing as u .For the Phoenicians is it possible to totally stop them from settling into Anatolia. The reason i do'nt want these indies is becuz they might inhibit the settling of later civs but then again i don't play 3000 Bc that often.

Ill post about the respawn in wiki spaces from now on but one last thing. Since Babylon as Iraq wont (in my opinion) work, wats ur plan. Fatimids (and other egyptian muslim dynasties) can be a respawn of Egypt but that still leaves the question about Babylon?