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Old Sep 23, 2011, 05:14 AM   #221
bruntfca
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Hulf, thanks for the update, very useful indeed.

Perhaps I made a mistake on installing the MOD,my bad. Maybe some instructions on how to install on the first post would help, given it does not use the standard method. I know it's simple once you know , but I guess I play over 20 games on and off, they all have their different quirks. This is better than some people never trying the mod since it's not in the install list.

I also had the broken tech tree problem, had to scroll down the long thread to find a fix, again better to make a version for non-DLC version, or put the fix in the first post; I think a lot of people would give up once they see the tech tree's broken. Hope the feedback helps. Cheers.
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Old Sep 23, 2011, 05:26 AM   #222
Hulfgar
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Hello bruntfca,

I will do some cleaning in the first post to have it up to date and with informations as clear as I can give them.

Quote:
better to make a version for non-DLC version
This is a very good suggestion, it should make it easier for people whithout the DLCs.

This all will probably be done for the end of the next week. I am waiting for Bernie's english riflemen to test the latest changes and do a release.

Thanks for the feedback, it really helps. If you have more ideas they are welcome!
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Old Sep 24, 2011, 09:08 PM   #223
Foxy420
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Civ5

Hey Hulf, I have a small suggestion regarding a much needed resource that has been overlooked by every Mod Designer thus far. Historically needed resource Hemp, all sails and some military units should require it till the time when other fibers slowly replaced hemp. No fabric currently is as durable as hemp. You could get clever with it later on, modern times, have a tech maybe, for farming it using for medical purposes or illegal activities leave it up to the player. They take a happiness hit if they turn to illegal activities.

okay the latter part is lame but including Hemp is essential, marihuana part skip it.

The Mod is only missing allowing more then 1 unit on a tile, I love 2 units per tiles, allows for some cool strategies. I love the things you did with it, aside from the gold and happiness issues it rocks and I hope you keep going with it.
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Old Sep 25, 2011, 02:48 AM   #224
Hulfgar
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Hello Kitsune420,

yes Hemp would make sense, but I need to find way on how to include it :
as a new resource on the map it may be too restrictive, Hemp is not as hard to find as Uran :-)
I could make it as an output from a building (like timber) but as with the lumberjack's hut you could build it in any city, even on tundra or desert.
I'm not happy with this solution (I wanted timber bound to tiles with forest or jungle, but this does not seem to be possible at this time).

I will give it a try, as with the 2 units per tiles. This will be version 10
9.2 is just waiting for the release of Bernie's English Rifleman, then I test it before a release.
After this I will begin to work on ver.10.
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Old Sep 25, 2011, 03:16 PM   #225
Foxy420
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Cool, sounds good to me! There is a Mod for more then 1 unit per tile already, can have unlimited, 2, 4, 6 something like that. I will get the Mod name for you and I agree that sucks about resources. I swear the guys who are making the civ series now has no clue what makes Civ a great game to play and mod.

Hemp in Civ 4 modding was always tied to tiles, used for building any sailing ships, adds production, happiness slightly, uniforms for all military in the Renaissance eras. So there is no way to have a Hemp leaf resource and make buildings, this can't be done with Civ 5? seriously lame lol

If you want a tester let me know I will be happy to test whatever you come up with. I miss Civ 4 style Mods, they stripped down Civ 5 to much. I haven't been able to finish one single Modded game due to all of them crashing around renaissance or industrial eras! Not sure if it is the additional Mods I run with the main Mod or not.

Your Mod I only run important ones that I know won't interfere. Other Mod packs I have tried I used a ton of wonder Mods, perhaps that is why they always crash. I have a 2.4 quadcore with 470 BTX video card, I would think it can handle Civ 5, maybe not
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Old Sep 26, 2011, 06:33 AM   #226
Dadaloglu
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Hulfgar, i have to mention a very little detail which disturbs me since the first version:steel resource name wroten as capital letter "STEEL".
If you can correct it i'll be grateful,thank you,keep up the good work
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Old Sep 26, 2011, 03:47 PM   #227
slo5oh
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Hulfgar, thanks again for a huge mod.
I've had a few troubles. Tech tree earlier, AI leaders pop up with no text explaining why they're there, then my video driver has crashed a few times, not sure that this is because of the mod or just Civ V pushing it too hard. After a clean install it's working now.
For those that have had trouble I found it best to delete cache, delete all mods installed and install only this mod.
Even after a new fresh install I'm consistently seen this:
WWGD - Events: [string "C:\Users\xyz\Documents\My Games\Sid M..."]:35: Cannot find key - AIFreePromotion
Runtime Error: [string "C:\Users\xyz\Documents\My Games\Sid M..."]:48: attempt to index field 'PROMOTION_FREE_UPGRADES' (a nil value)

when I check my WWGD directory I only see:
AIAttackForces.xml
DiscussionDialog.lua
DiscussionDialog.xml
GlobalAIDefines.xml
GrandStrategy.xml
HandicapInfos.xml
PolicyFlavors.xml
WWGD - Events.lua

notice there's no "AIFreePromotion"

Just got the leader with no text thing again:
Runtime Error: [string "Assets/UI/InGame/LeaderHead/DiscussionDialo..."]:66: attempt to index field 'InfoAddictButton' (a nil value)

Last edited by slo5oh; Sep 26, 2011 at 04:30 PM.
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 12:32 AM   #228
Hulfgar
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Slo5oh thanks for this feedback and the logs.

I have released version 9.2, the diplo part of WWGD has been taken out until I find a correction to this problem.
In the game I played the diplo screens where all ok.

I have reworked the tech tree and split the mod in 3 parts/mods :

a main file for all users with or whithout optional DLC.

a Spain/Inca addon for users with this DLC
a Polynesia addon for users with this DLC

This should solve some tech tree problems that apparently where related to the DLC parts.

Dadaloglu the word steel is now spelled correctly (thanks for this advice).

The other changes are in the first post.
Thanks to all for the feedbacks.

Last edited by Hulfgar; Sep 27, 2011 at 05:17 AM.
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 10:51 AM   #229
suszek
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Hi
Grate mod, but I have problem with it. I cannot go to choose production screen(when I click on the choose production tab nothings happens, and also I cannot select new research project. I doest`t had this problem in mod ver.8. It seams that this appears since 9 version. I made clean install of Civ5 and install only Hulfgar's Modpack.
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 01:27 PM   #230
Hulfgar
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Hi Suszek,

can you give me some details ? :

which DLC do you have ?
Is your Civ5 up to date (just to be sure) ?
Does this bug happens with all civs, if not which civ were you playing when the bug happened ?
Which version of the mod are you playing ?
Which language do you use to play ?

Last question : with this
Quote:
when I click on the choose production tab nothings happens, and also I cannot select new research project
I assume that you mean the buttons that appear when you found a city ?
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Old Sep 27, 2011, 04:07 PM   #231
tiemanj
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I am playing your version 9 rev ? (the one just before this last release) mod and have been enjoying it. Since you seem to want to know what people think, I'll provide you my [unsolicited] comments.

As I said, I am playing with version 9 rev just before last of your mod with a few minor tweeks:
I deleted the DLC stuff, as I don't have them. This fixed the tech tree bug as you already know
I deleted the extra maintance costs file, as you recommended
I have a mod where harbors give +1 gold per sea tile and seaports give +1 production per sea tile in order to make costal cities more attractive (and bring them up to par with inland cities)

I am currently at the beginninng of the modern era / end of the industrial era. Prince, giant map, continents, 12 civs, 28(?) city states (as may as it would let me), raging barbarins, playing as america, epic time scale.


First, I think there are 2 bugs I bumped into:
There was a gap in time where I couldn't build any bombard units (between cannon and artillery). I don't remember exactly when it was, except to say it was shortly before I got artillery. Perhaps cannons are still obsolete with dynamite, but artillery now comes a few techs later? - forget that, I see you fixed it in your next version.

There was a gap in time where I couldn't build any naval units (between frigates and dreadnaughts). This was a sizeable time period. I'm not sure when it started - I needed some naval ships and saw I couldn't build any. Again, perhaps frigates need to be updated to the new obsolete tech.

I noticed you mentioned the bug where foregin leaders talking to you would not display any dialog. I did what you said and just hit escape to get out of it. The same thing happened when I tried to "discuss" something with another leader. This may be my biggest grip about the mod. I don't know how the diplomacy works in the game, but I wasn't able to declair any friendships, denounce other leaders, or do any of the less tangable things that civ V offers in its diplomacy. At this time, all other civs are "guarded" toward me, dispite only declairing war on 1 civ (3 times), and all those times were to protect another civ. The chinese are especially annoying, as I saved them 3 times, and gave them all of their cities back that I captured from the Aztecs (3 times). I don't know if this is a mod issue or a game issue, but I seem to have more trouble maintaing friendships.

It seems that with this mod, raging barbarians are far more raging then before. I like this by the way. Even into colonial times there were barbarian ships all over unsettled territory. Don't send any unprotected units through these areas. This made the navy more important, which is something I thought was missing from the origianl game.

I really like the new "timber" and "ale" resources. The original early game really seperated those with iron and those without. Timber levels the playing field and gives everyone a chance. Ale makes it so that you can have a little more happiness, and thus a little more spreading out in the early game. I also like how what the game engine thinks is a stragetic resource is used for happiness. The more I have, the happier my citizens are (indirectly), and I can trade as much as I want to any civ. My only question would be, what happens if I import it, build some pubs, and then lose it and have negative units? Would the pubs stop providing happiness (which is what should happen)?

I like how you have to refine your oil into diseal and kerosine. This allows for some intresting trade dynamics and resource managment. My only issue is that I can't build enough refineries, and I have a lot of useless oil that I can't do anything with. Part of the problem is that you made oil refineries only able to be built on flat land cities. My primary production cities are in the hills, and thus useless in this respect. I just deleted the flag "flat", and I'll see how much that helps. Another possible solution would be to make another building "large refinary" or something similar, which does something like use 4 oil to produce 6 diseal and 4 kerosine (and is built in addtion to the current refinary).

The aircraft factory being on flat land only is killer. Again, since the bulk of my production is in the hills, I can't build aircraft. I have also removed the flat land only flag from this, and I'll see how it goes. I justify to myself by considering that each tile is about the size of New Jersey. I imagine that enough flat area can be found there for a runway big enough to get these aircraft up. Further, the game allows you to base the aircraft at any city - so if they can take off with full combat loads from a hill city, I'm sure my people can find a way to build them there and get them off the ground.

The conscript unit: I like the idea, but I think it needs to be refined. I had a core army that was battle hardened made of long swordsman and musket men. These units were battle hardened with 3-4 upgrades each. Once I got to rifling, I upgraded all these units and noticed something - when a unit got updated, its upkeep costs disappeared (and it cost only like 2 gold to upgrade). Since these units had a combat value of 23 (vice 25 with riflemen), and multiple upgrades, I had a very powerful army costing me next to nothing. Of course as time when on, my core army could no longer be upgraded, and I "lost" (disbanded or gave away) all those experienced units. I think it would be better to have long swordmen / musket men / etc upgrade to riflemen. This would keep them in the upgrade chain, and not have your core army cost no upkeep for a period of time. Perhaps this and making a modern conscript (that the first one could upgrade to), could keep them in the game without the hassle of rebuilding your entire army.

I have not had any issues with gold, and few issues with happiness. The extra happiness buildings early on make it so that it is not too hard to keep the happy. And if anything, I have much more gold right now then in the original game. As I said, I made it so sea tiles produce extra gold once you build a harbor, but I only have 3 cities built on the coast. The extra gold is nice, as it is useful for rush building some things. Considering all the additional buildings you put it, I think it opens a few doors.

One last minor gripe. In my game, I am about a 1920s level technology (and slighly ahead of everyone else), but the year is 1990. I like the pace of the game, I just don't like looking up and seeing "1990". The extra technologies that you added are a bit out of sync with the year at the top. Again, this is the most minor of gripes.

Overall great work. I look forward to your next release.
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 12:07 AM   #232
suszek
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Hi Hulfgar
-I got Spain/Inca/Polynesia and Denmark
-Game Version 1.0.1.383
-Yes, I made fresh installation of Civ after that I have installed updates
-I tried with Rome, Japan,Edypt and Russia
-Problem occurs with mod version 9 and now with 9.2. Earlier versions run just fine
-I use English
Yes problems occurs when I found first city, I cannot choose production or research project and of course I can`t end the turn.
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 02:14 AM   #233
Hulfgar
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Hi Suszek, thanks for all those details.

Can you try a custom game whithout any civ from the Denmark DLC ?
I am not sure if this would deactivate the content of this DLC but it is worth a try.
Because the only difference between your config and mine is the Denmark DLC.

Hello Tiemanj,
Those are really usefull comments, this will help me balance the mod, thanks !

Quote:
There was a gap in time where I couldn't build any naval units (between frigates and dreadnaughts). This was a sizeable time period. I'm not sure when it started - I needed some naval ships and saw I couldn't build any. Again, perhaps frigates need to be updated to the new obsolete tech.
Yes I forgot this one, this is true for the Ship of the Line as well.
They will become obsolete when the tech dreadnought is found.

Quote:
The conscript unit: I like the idea, but I think it needs to be refined.
Agree, I am not totally happy with it either. I will probably drop it until I rework it all.

The upgrade paths :
My idea is that when you get a new kind of weapon you have to train your units from nothing.
An elite swordsman does not make an elite musketman whithout learning first how to use the musket.
In the same logic I don't see how a trained cavalry unit can upgrade to a trained helicopter or tank!
I kept the upgrade path for naval units because the sea as some laws and requires some knowledge that applies at all times.

It is sure frustrating to loose all the xps points gained with some units but I find it more realistic and logic.
Now a game must make fun first of all so your opinion on this is again welcome : should I keep my system with broken upgrades or revert to the vanilla settings ?

Quote:
I have a mod where harbors give +1 gold per sea tile and seaports give +1 production per sea tile in order to make costal cities more attractive (and bring them up to par with inland cities)
I should include this in the next version and it makes sense, the sea is a valuable asset !

Quote:
The chinese are especially annoying, as I saved them 3 times, and gave them all of their cities back that I captured from the Aztecs (3 times). I don't know if this is a mod issue or a game issue, but I seem to have more trouble maintaing friendships.
Probably the combination of the 2 : you loose diplo points because you cannot really speak to the leaders due to the bug.
But the game itself as a strange diplo logic : I experienced going from a strong frienship to "guarded" and even war in just a few turns whithout doing anything agressiv. And this was with the vanilla diplomatie!
I have removed the diplo mod of WWGD in ver 9.2, this seems to have solved the bug with the diplomatic screen.

Quote:
what happens if I import it, build some pubs, and then lose it and have negative units? Would the pubs stop providing happiness (which is what should happen)?
A good question, I should find a way to test this and see what happens!

For the oil refinery : I agree it is too restrictive, I did it to avoid having 15+ refineries but it will be better with a higher maintenance cost.
Same is true for the aircraft factory.

Quote:
It seems that with this mod, raging barbarians are far more raging then before.
This is because of the Barbarians! mod that I have merged in mine and yes it makes the navy quite usefull

Quote:
One last minor gripe. In my game, I am about a 1920s level technology (and slighly ahead of everyone else), but the year is 1990. I like the pace of the game, I just don't like looking up and seeing "1990". The extra technologies that you added are a bit out of sync with the year at the top.
Agree again. I will look into this when most of the rest is fixed (because as you said it is not game breaking but I have first to find how to change that and an error into it would probably break everything ).

if you have more comments don't hesitate, they are really helpfull. thanks again!

Hulfgar
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 07:30 AM   #234
tiemanj
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Quote:
The upgrade paths :
My idea is that when you get a new kind of weapon you have to train your units from nothing.
An elite swordsman does not make an elite musketman whithout learning first how to use the musket.
In the same logic I don't see how a trained cavalry unit can upgrade to a trained helicopter or tank!
I kept the upgrade path for naval units because the sea as some laws and requires some knowledge that applies at all times.

It is sure frustrating to loose all the xps points gained with some units but I find it more realistic and logic.
Now a game must make fun first of all so your opinion on this is again welcome : should I keep my system with broken upgrades or revert to the vanilla settings ?
From a gaming point of view, I would strongly perfer keeping the upgrade paths. My biggest gripe about the early civ(s) was that you had to rebuild your army every time you got a new tech. First it allows you (and the computer) to upgrade units without having to rebuild...this "frees" you to build buildings, wonders, etc and helps the flow of the game.
Second, a unit is more then just guys with swords or guns. It consists of a large administrative staff, infrastructure (bases, armorys, etc) and logistics that doesn't really care what the troops are armed with (in a broad sense). The saying is amatures study tactics, professionals study logistics. So elite units are better in many cases because they can "out supply" their enemies. The staff and infrastructure and logicsics are largly kept intact when the unit gets new weapons.
And third, I don't think it is really unrealistic in most cases: musketmen absorb better weapons to become riflemen, who get better weapons to become infantry. Horsemen get better weapons to become knights, who later get better weapons to become lancers / calvary. Swordsmen are "elite" because they have good discipline and follow orders...the same traits make a musketman elite. True the tactics may change, but I assume I have some colonels on the field to solve that problem (plus the logistics as mentioned before). A few dead ends may be ok - calvary to tanks was a revolution, but for the most part the upgrade paths should be kept.

Quote:
Yes I forgot this one, this is true for the Ship of the Line as well.
They will become obsolete when the tech dreadnought is found.
I was thinking about this a little more, and I'm also thinking that the "dreadnaughts" show up a little late in the game...or perhaps more accuratly, wooden ships are around a bit too long. It is true the actual "dreadnaughts" showed up in the early 20th century, but metal ships that totally outclassed the old wooden ships showed up in the 1880s. It is hard to say exactly when tech tree wise this occured (the original civ V tech tree just kind of brushes over the 19th century)... perhaps move your "dreadnaught" technology to somewhere just after railroad or you could replace that useless ironclad with a 1880s era crusier ("protected crusier" or "armored cruiser" are the classes of the time) use the same art - adjust the technology to a bit later.

Quote:
Quote:
I have a mod where harbors give +1 gold per sea tile and seaports give +1 production per sea tile in order to make costal cities more attractive (and bring them up to par with inland cities)

I should include this in the next version and it makes sense, the sea is a valuable asset !
I highly recommed it. I've been toying with a few different configurations for the 3 coastal buildings (lighthouse, harbor, seaport). My objective is to make rivers most valuable in the early game, oceans / rivers equal in the mid game, and costal cities most attractive in the late game. Currently, over half the worlds population lives within 100nm of the ocean, but in civ V, you are actually discouraged from being near the sea. Harbors are useless and expensive, and sea tiles are week (fully improved gives you 3 "resources" (2 food, 1 gold), where as grasslands/plains are 4 - 5 if there is a river). I think what I'm leaning toward is:
lighthouse - +2 food, +2 (or 3) gold. early game improvement that gives your citizens access to the sea, but little more. Sea tiles are still 1 food/1 gold. Only small groups of citizens (below the scale of civ) work the sea.
harbor - +2 gold, +1 gold/tile. mid game improvement that increases the value of water access. Sea is now 1 food/ 2 gold. On par with rivers for gold production, but you still need to get your food from the land.
Seaport - +1 gold/tile, +1 production/tile, +1 food/tile. The ocean is now your most valuable resourse. The seaport imports food and materials, and commerce centers around it. Seas now have 6 resourses (2 food, 3 gold, 1 production), making them the most attractive place to build / grow cities.

Quote:
For the oil refinery : I agree it is too restrictive, I did it to avoid having 15+ refineries but it will be better with a higher maintenance cost.
I wouldn't worry too much about too many refineries... oil is useless without them. I am playing with standard resources and I have about 40 oil in my nation between domestic production and city state imports. That means I need 20 refineries just to use the oil. Plus my imports from city states. Sevearl have 3 or 7 oil - their refineries (once they build them) can only use 2, so I get the excess.
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 02:11 PM   #235
Hulfgar
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I think that I will replace the ironclad with the dreadnought and move the cruiser to the dreadnought position.

As you say the ironclad is pretty useless is the vanilla settings (who needs a ship that cannot enter oceans in the industrial era ?!).
I will keep it for the barbarians, it makes a fine pirate unit :-)

So far is what is planned for version 9.3 :
Spoiler:

Obsoletes tech for Frigate and Ship of the Line updated to steam power, dreadnought available at steam power (will replace the ironclad).

Aircraft Factory : the flat land restriction has been removed, maintenance up to 3 Gold (+1).
Oil Refinery : the flat land restriction has been removed, maintenance up to 3 Gold (+1), will produce 3 diesel and 3 kerosene (+1)
Airbase : the flat land restriction has been removed, requires 1 kerosene (to refuel the training planes!).
Harbor +1 Gold per Sea plot
Seaport +1 Production per Sea plot
Watersport resort : +1 Gold per Sea plot (instead of 1 per Sea resource)

Crossbowmen upgrade to Riflemen (vanilla settings)
Musketmen upgrade to Riflemen (vanilla settings)


Can you give me the name of the mod that you are using for the sea resources ?
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Old Sep 28, 2011, 05:05 PM   #236
tiemanj
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I like the updates - one small comment though, cruisers predate the dreadnaughts. "Protected Cruisers" first showed up on 1875, and started to become commonplace in the 1880s. The dreadnaught was launched in 1906. I would just swap your dreadnaught with the ironclad replacement (cruiser).

I like the rest of the changes... I also wouldn't get rid of the conscripts just yet, just keep them out of the upgrade chain.

I don't have a published mod for the water changes. Below is the xml file I use:

Spoiler:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<GameData>
<Buildings>
<Update>
<Where Type="BUILDING_LIGHTHOUSE" />
<Set GoldMaintenance="0" />
</Update>
<Update>
<Where Type="BUILDING_HARBOR" />
<Set GoldMaintenance="0" />
</Update>
<Update>
<Where Type="BUILDING_SEAPORT" />
<Set GoldMaintenance="0" />
</Update>
</Buildings>

<Building_Flavors>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_HARBOR</BuildingType>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GOLD</FlavorType>
<Flavor>60</Flavor>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GOLD</FlavorType>
<Flavor>50</Flavor>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_NAVAL_GROWTH</FlavorType>
<Flavor>20</Flavor>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
<Flavor>5</Flavor>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_SCIENCE</FlavorType>
<Flavor>5</Flavor>
</Row>
</Building_Flavors>

<Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>
<Update>
<Where BuildingType="BUILDING_LIGHTHOUSE" />
<Set Yield="0" />
</Update>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_HARBOR</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_GOLD</YieldType>
<Yield>1</Yield>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_GOLD</YieldType>
<Yield>1</Yield>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_PRODUCTION</YieldType>
<Yield>1</Yield>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_SEAPORT</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
<Yield>1</Yield>
</Row>
</Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>

<Building_YieldChanges>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_LIGHTHOUSE</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_GOLD</YieldType>
<Yield>2</Yield>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_LIGHTHOUSE</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
<Yield>2</Yield>
</Row>
<Row>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_HARBOR</BuildingType>
<YieldType>YIELD_GOLD</YieldType>
<Yield>2</Yield>
</Row>
</Building_YieldChanges>


</GameData>
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Old Sep 29, 2011, 05:04 AM   #237
LetMyPeopleGo
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My first encounter with the changes tiemanj suggested regarding sea resources was when playing with Building made fun mod.

I always use some tweaks I find in various mods that are very good in terms of game playability, like disabling Research Agreement, disabling Instant-Healing promotion and the changes regarding sea resources as mentioned above.

Regarding upgrades, Musketeers never popped-out replacing swordsmen, the first musketeers were actually capable swordsmen that carried a Musket good for one or two shots at the most before engaging close contact, then reverting to swords. The famous redcoats were masters of close contact using bayonets and swords, Cavalry always kept their main weapon of shock, the sword, saber or the lance, even while carrying fire arms, the final blow within close range was the saber or lance, even later on when engaging infantry, early infantry was very inaccurate, so after being bombarded and scattered from their initial close formation, the cavalry stormed in to cast the final blow.

Modern Cavalry transitioned into mechanized, mounted force, and helicopters and as an airborne force with the designation of Air Cavalry, keeping the tradition of fast deployment and shock attack.

The discipline and tactics of well trained units didn't change much with weapons upgrade.

Last comment about upgrading, the huge difference of wooden war ships vs steal structured warships in not just in the hull and deck material, it's mainly about the stronger mechanical structure that enabled the transition from Canons to Artillery, using the game convention. Much of the Naval warfare tactics hasn't change in the early days of the transition, the first to adopt to the new technology, artillery vs canons (referring to game conventions), steam vs wind power ended with the upper hand.

About this mod, I've read the last comments and change logs regarding version 9 and above, like it a lot, downloading now.

Thanks

Last edited by LetMyPeopleGo; Sep 29, 2011 at 06:24 AM.
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Old Sep 29, 2011, 01:40 PM   #238
Hulfgar
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Quote:
Modern Cavalry transitioned into mechanized, mounted force, and helicopters and as an airborne force with the designation of Air Cavalry, keeping the tradition of fast deployment and shock attack.

The discipline and tactics of well trained units didn't change much with weapons upgrade.
Presented like that I can only agree with you!

By the way I will probably remove the insta heal as well. As a lot of users I think that it's good for a fantasy mod not for a classic Civ.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 12:16 PM   #239
Foxy420
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Hulf you are dedicated to the Mod, amazing how you handle everyone's comments, you must be living on the forums!! Where do you find time to Mod and make a living in the real world?

Be cool if you took out barbarian locations and Maps from goody huts. Complete waste of a goody hut. Keep up the good work man I am playing Civ 4 for a bit till your Mod has some kinks worked out. The guys who coded Civ 5 seriously need to go play Civ 4 especially some Mods like caveman2cosmos, Civ 5 isn't up to snuff compared to the entire series, quite sad how Civ 5 is stripped of many cool things we all loved.

By the way, who else hates the embarkation concept of units? I prefer the realistic transports we all have used since Civ 2.
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Old Sep 30, 2011, 02:37 PM   #240
LetMyPeopleGo
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Originally Posted by Kitsune420 View Post
By the way, who else hates the embarkation concept of units? I prefer the realistic transports we all have used since Civ 2.
I totally agree, it's not just a stupid idea, it's a hated one, as you said.

I can't stop thinking of swordsmen and pikemen rowing their quick assembled boats in the middle of the night crossing the Atlantic ocean, while their navy's well trained war ships unable to enter the ocean observe them from behind while any archer stationed on any passed by island sends them directly to the bottom of the ocean.
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