[BTS] tips to "Montezumize" me please

[FakeShady]

I play on Noble, i'm a hardcore culture fanatic, cultural victories has been what im doing since who knows when. My biggest weakness is war. Not just am i weak against one, im bad at the offensive too. Whenever i try to play a warmonger something always goes wrong. Either i cant win the war, or i cant get my catapults to its full use, or i dont seem to have any benefit anyway even though i won the war.

Im recently very interested in trying out the Aztecs, but with such a weak UU i have no idea how to play them. Help, please? Do i settle cities with a lotta food at the start, or i do i ignore iron? If i do settle near iron, wouldnt that make my UU go to waste? I personally like to rush out the Pyramids, but by that time other civs have already settled much of "my" land. Should i look out for horses instead? Do i declare war on the techmonger, or do i leave him alive for espionage? Do i completely eliminate one opponent at the start? I have no idea really

[Infrared]

It depends really. Some situations have you rushing if you'd really not prefer Shaka DoWing you at his first war check, or if you have bad land. You might go for food, or military. The best way to warmonger is to identify how much war you can wage sustainably. So if your land is good for 6+ great cities, by all means wait until mass rifles if you can get them first - then paint the world lime.

I suggest you post a 4000AD savegame of you attempting to play a warmonger. House rules on the settings you enjoy and do frequent updates, e.g. 2000 BC - your early city placement. 0 AD, how the world is divided. 1000AD/lib, 1500AD/win for example. Saves of these would be nice too. At each update point, take a break and see how we can help you.

[NuttyPenguins]

Originally Posted by FakeShady

I play on Noble, i'm a hardcore culture fanatic, cultural victories has been what im doing since who knows when. My biggest weakness is war. Not just am i weak against one, im bad at the offensive too. Whenever i try to play a warmonger something always goes wrong. Either i cant win the war, or i cant get my catapults to its full use, or i dont seem to have any benefit anyway even though i won the war.

By the sounds of it one of two things are going wrong. You are either:

A: Not building enough catapults. About 2/3rds of your army should be catapults when you go to war. That level should be maintained as well as possible. You then use these to bombard and "suicide" for collateral.

B: If you are doing the above, and its just not working. You seem to run out of steam maybe? You might not be building enough before the war. Make sure you build enough that you dont grind to a stalemate. You want to be prepared enough to make the war quick and decisive.

Originally Posted by FakeShady

Im recently very interested in trying out the Aztecs, but with such a weak UU i have no idea how to play them. Help, please? Do i settle cities with a lotta food at the start, or i do i ignore iron? If i do settle near iron, wouldnt that make my UU go to waste? I personally like to rush out the Pyramids, but by that time other civs have already settled much of "my" land. Should i look out for horses instead? Do i declare war on the techmonger, or do i leave him alive for espionage? Do i completely eliminate one opponent at the start? I have no idea really

This all is pretty map dependent. Jaguars are not the best UU, but are perfectly serviceable if you have iron. Definitely dont avoid using a jaguar just because it isnt a "good" UU.

Settling next to food is ALWAYS a good idea.

Dont neglect the Aztec UB. It is one of the best in the game. And deserves to be used in almost any Aztec playthrough.

The rest of your questions are up to you. They seem like "play style" questions. I don't like early war (anything before gun powder), but that is just my play style.

Hope I helped


EDIT: As mentioned above. Sometimes, bad land is a good example, an early war is forced. You then have to judge by the map, and your opponents, what units you will use.

[AbsoluteZero]

Jaguar beeline as the aztecs is really really slow, unless you have a gold start.

Even if you get them they really aren't a great unit, unless you plan on just running around in enemy forests with woodsman II.

My advice is to just do an plain axe rush with the aztecs and get IW and jags later.

From the start go food tech ( AH or AG depending on what resources you have ) then go mining -> BW -> wheel. Or mining -> wheel BW, depending on how soon you need roads.

Then hook up copper and axe rush the nearest civ. Try to make it to writing before it's all over.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Originally Posted by FakeShady

I play on Noble, i'm a hardcore culture fanatic, cultural victories has been what im doing since who knows when. My biggest weakness is war. Not just am i weak against one, im bad at the offensive too. Whenever i try to play a warmonger something always goes wrong. Either i cant win the war, or i cant get my catapults to its full use, or i dont seem to have any benefit anyway even though i won the war.

So you need more practice at War. That's pretty easy to come buy .

Originally Posted by FakeShady

Im recently very interested in trying out the Aztecs, but with such a weak UU i have no idea how to play them. Help, please?

I'm not too fond of Aztecs for learning war. That civ is a bit too specialized, I think, to be good for learning.

But that's not what you asked.

Originally Posted by FakeShady

Do i settle cities with a lotta food at the start, or i do i ignore iron? If i do settle near iron, wouldnt that make my UU go to waste? I personally like to rush out the Pyramids, but by that time other civs have already settled much of "my" land. Should i look out for horses instead? Do i declare war on the techmonger, or do i leave him alive for espionage? Do i completely eliminate one opponent at the start? I have no idea really

Second point - none of these questions are really specific to the Aztecs, except perhaps the point about Iron.

The Jaguar is more of an accident - if you happen to be playing on Arborial, or Tropical Rain Forest, then by all means abuse the advantage. But on "standard" maps, I don't recommend paying them any special attention.

Your primary war advantages are
a) Spiritual Trait
b) Sacrificial Altar
c) Aggressive Trait

In very early wars, only C really comes into play. You should take the time to learn to kill neighbors with Axes, and with Chariots. Set as your goal to settle no more than three cities of your own before capturing a neighboring capital.

In catapult wars, A and B start to become a lot more important. Your basic pattern is to secure an advantage (like catapults, for example), then use the spiritual trait to switch to war production civics, and abuse the fact that the sacrificial altar dramatically reduces the opportunity cost of converting food to production.

Because you are aggressive, the opportunity cost to put a barracks everywhere is low, so you can justify putting your entire civ on war footing all at once.

The sad truth is that, once the catapults have done their job, almost any attacking piece can handle the cleanup duties. Catapults plus Axemen are common. Heck, even catapults plus archers are viable.

Beyond that, learn to abuse the civic changing powers of Spiritual. For example, impose upon yourself the restriction that you must change civics every 10 turns, and see how much benefit you can extract from that.

[Jet]

Well first off, try both of these. They're a little "specialized" (), but it's good to see that you can do them.
1. Worker, Barracks, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, ...
2. Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior, Warrior.

[FakeShady]

So basically, there is a general Aztec strategy, but there is no real Jaguar strategy, right?

[GGracchus]

One potential use of jaguars(as pointed out to me) is as a Medic III Woodsman III super healer(use a great general)

[AbsoluteZero]

Originally Posted by FakeShady

So basically, there is a general Aztec strategy, but there is no real Jaguar strategy, right?

Jaguars just come to late and are actually weaker then regular swordsman.

If they were stronger or came with Bronze Working instead of Iron Working then it might be different.

They have uses though, like the last poster mentioned, you can get a nice super medic real easy with a jaguar.

You can also make a pretty good harasser with a woodsman II jaguar. He can run around in enemy forests and steal workers, maybe even pick off a few troops. Hard to deal with if your on the receiving end.

[ahcos]

In my oppinion Aztecs are rather bad for superearly rushes. Yes, they're aggressive which usually is a grait trait for Axerushes etc, but they have rather bad starting techs for such kind of rush - you'll just have to research too much yourself, which will delay the rush too long. I'd really prefer to have at least Wheel as a starting tech if i want to rush early, that way you can beeline the military techs and still can do something useful with your workers. Aztecs are awesome in catapult wars because you can outproduce the AI easily by abusing your UB.

I like Hammurabi for early rushes alot, perfect traits and optimal starting techs..

[Farm Boy]

Likely you are also trying to adjust from being accustomed to running a smallish, effecient, and high commerce empire.

After you start to get the knack of successfully capturing cities you are going to need to learn to run a sprawling, inefficient, commerce-starved but production heavy empire.

If constantly warring and expanding cottages may be too slow to develop for your game's pace, you might need to build more farms/mines/GPP production for the more immediate payoff. Build wealth/research.

You may need to learn to fight with a tech disadvantage but numerical advantage. This is still hard for me, even though I know you need to sometimes do it.

Abuse the whip. I also have a hard time doing this.

Forum game is ever and always the most effective way to go!

[Cusanus]

Originally Posted by FakeShady

Im recently very interested in trying out the Aztecs, but with such a weak UU i have no idea how to play them.

[...]

So basically, there is a general Aztec strategy, but there is no real Jaguar strategy, right?

Don't play the leader, play the map.

There is no Aztec strategy just as there is no German or American strategy. Even when playing Incans, Egyptians, or Romans, look at the map to decide your strategy, don't just look at you great UU.


[Edit: Actually, the Aztecs are one of the few civilizations that are sometimes and exception to this rule: the aztec UB makes whipping so powerful that abusing slavery might often be an option for an Aztec ruler even though it would be bad for any other civ in the same situation. But still, don't decide your strategy before looking at the map!]

[Zx Zero Zx]

The Aztecs are a lot better in AI hands due to them being a warmonger. Learn to build lots of units and kill people. Culture is a very boring win condition.

[Fibonacci1123]

One thing that Monty excels at is drafting. Use his SPI trait for an anarchy-free switch to Nationhood (or better yet, Nationhood + Theocracy). Draft C1 rifles for 5 turns (with Theocracy, they get another promotion on top of the C1). While you draft, your production cities churn out siege (5XP siege with Theocracy). After 5 turns, switch to better economic civics (Bur/FS + OR).

You now have a strong SOD and your economy is not hurt from running Nationhood for a long time.

[A_Hamster]

A suggestion for an exercise in learning warfare. If you haven't already, read The Early Rush by Sisiutil. You may also want to read VoiceOfUnreason's Vocum Sineratio: The Whip. The second article is useful for anyone who doesn't use the whip enough, but since you want to use the Aztecs and their UB it is really important to maximize the utility of Slavery. (In my current Noble's Club game, I would really like the Sacrificial Altar: 5 turns between whips instead of 10 would be sweet.)

Start a custom game: Pangaea, standard, but add at least three extra AIs. Turn "Aggressive AI" on. You will have to war early and often or die.

You may want to post the save game and let people shadow. Some of the better players might be willing to play and post save games of their own so you can see how it is done.

Perhaps you might like to play in the Noble's Club. Seeing how other players (at various skill levels) solve the same problem can help one step up one's game.