ALC Game 32: Holy Roman Empire / Charlemagne

By the time you get enough troops for a modern war Qin will have a massive defensive force. All you might consider is killing of Pacal to intercept his culture. Go for Internet and build up a ship, and sail over to Alpha Centurari.

Alright. I think I agree. Pacal will need to lose a few cities, but I don't see this game ending with a big war.

You're playing above my skill level, so I don't have much to offer, but I'm looking forward to seeing how you handle this situation. I agree with the idea that you shouldn't start a war unless you see some benefit in doing so, and it's hard to see how grabbing a few Chinese cities is worth the opportunity cost.

I think I'm playing above my skill level too, :lol:, but I reached the same conclusion you did. I probably could have gotten 4 or 5 cities at a great expense to me while Qin would not have been hurt too badly going from 15 to 10 cities.

Benginal, you haven't updated the OP in awhile. Just thought you'd like to know.

Thanks for the heads up, it's updated!
 
Round 8: 1540 AD to 1804 AD (turns 218-272)

Spoiler :
I started the round unsure what I was planning on doing so I just meandered forward with building the internet as my goal. But I wasn't set on that plan and should some other opportunity have presented itself I was ready to take it. That being said, I was pretty sure that space and the internet was the way to go. After all, I love the internet.

I was checking the f4 screen every turn and noticed that Roosevelt had researched Assembly Line. That was my cue to do something with it.



Unfortunately Qin hadn't been willing to part with Railroad the turn before and I didn't want any of the other stuff he was offering. So I pulled an old trick. I put one turn of research into Railroad myself and then Qin was willing to make the trade above. After that turn of Railroad I finished self-teching Electricity. And after that I chose Industrialism.



I chose it for two reasons. The first is that Industrialism is on the way to Plastics so I needed it if I wanted to build the Internet. The second reason is that it reveals Aluminum. The earlier I know I don't have it the more time to change plans or decide that space is still best I have.

Below is a shot of a micro tip.



When Railroad goes in you should take control of a few workers and have them build railroads on all your mines as a railroad gives a mine-improved tile one more hammer. In this particular game I'm going almost exclusively with windmills, but I still have mines on the mineable resources.

After Industrialism I decided that I had enough time to get sidetracked.



I was suffering from major unhealth issues, as usual. Medicine gives me access to hospitals and also lets me switch civics to Environmentalism. Environmentalism is especially nice given the windmills I've got all over my empire. Industrialism is in. Do I have aluminum?



Excellent, not one, but two sources. Aluminum is a great resource to have for space victories as it makes everything go faster.

In the meanwhile Pacal had been annoying. And Industrialism was a monopoly tech. Hmmmmm.



That should knock Pacal down a few notches. Notice that Qin is a monster and giving monsters bait is usually not a good idea, but in this case I'm way more worried about Pacal's culture attempt than anything else. And I think that Qin can actually knock out Pacal since



One of Pacal's big three is withing easy reach of Qin's army. Back in the Holy Roman Empire a new political party was elected.



Universal Suffrage for the extra hammers in Prague. Free Speech for the extra coins in Prague. Environmentalism for the extra coins everywhere and Emancipation to deal with unhappiness. Note that I did choose to stay in Pacifism. It would have cost another turn to revolt to Free Religion and all my buddies were still running Buddhism and I saw no reason to annoy them. Only four techs left.



Qin will give me one of them.



What a good guy. I'm noticing that the no WFYABTA from Friendly AIs is really, really good. In the meantime, we popped a great engineer.



I'm not sure what to do with him. I thought about settling him in the Ironworks city of Aachen but hesitated. I thought I'd keep him maybe for a Golden Age depending on who the next great person was.

I also really like it when completely out of date AIs make demands.



It's especially nice when they're super crazy nut jobs and I get free peace with them. In other foreign affairs the Mayans made peace with the Chinese and company. Check out what Qin managed to do before he capitulated Pacal.



Looks like the Mayan Man is completely out for the count in this game. Thanks a million QSH! But then something awkward happened.



Apparently Qin has not yet researched Mass Media! I think I should be fine since I don't think all the AIs have Buddhism, but it does make me a little worried. I'm also noticing that Qin is quite big and already has two vassals. Here's hoping he doesn't win a UN election before I can launch my ship.

And here's that tech we wanted.



It looks like I have some time to get the Internet built.





I think ten turns should be enough. While Aachen was working on that it produced another great person.



A second great engineer! I know the Space Elevator gets no love, and deservedly so, but with two great engineers I should be able to build it for free. Is this right? I think two engineers should be enough, or at least close to enough. What do you guys think? Is it worth the diversion to Robotics to get a free Space Elevator?

A few turns were ended and soon after we got some very good news.





:lol:. Getting the internet always makes me laugh. I love it. Especially with Qin and vassals sharing all their technologies I get lots of stuff! And the round ends on that positive note. Some key screenshots follow.











So that's about the size of it. I think I'll go for the Space Elevator while building some laboratories. And then with the Space Elevator, laboratories, and Aluminum in hand I'll be able to crank out all the parts pretty quickly.
 
Nice work. The best way to deal with the AP is probably to make Mass Media a priority after the Space techs. Then trade it to QSH. That's probably all you can do.

EDIT: 1000th post (again! - Guess the Map III got archived just after the first time) :band: :banana: [party]
 
I don't think you have to worry about the AP win. Iirc, you can't win a diplo victory with it if you have so many votes that you'd win by yourself--no matter how many other votes you get.
Just to be on the safe side, you might want to hold unto your GE. When you get Mass Media from the internet (or stealing, if the Chinese refuse to trade it away), you will have to build the UN before the opponents do. I can't remember for sure, but I think you can vote yourself into winning with the UN.
If you do this, then no point going for the Space Elevator.
Also, since you're in US and don't need beakers, don't forget that you can buy your labs in (for the hammer bonus with spaceship parts).
 
I don't think you have to worry about the AP win. Iirc, you can't win a diplo victory with it if you have so many votes that you'd win by yourself--no matter how many other votes you get.

Does QSH have enough votes to win solo? Or does he need his vassals' help?

EDIT: QSH has only just over 50% of the votes when it comes to electing the Resident. So he can't win by himself - which, ironically, is bad news.
 
Round 9: 1804 AD to 1874 AD (turns 272-307)

Spoiler :
Let the end game begin. Seeing that the AIs were going to get superconductors pretty quickly, I decided to switch research to Robotics for the Space Elevator.



China and company declared war on the helpless Greek.



I'm starting to get worried that China's going to just take over the world and win a diplomation victory.

Spoiler :
My premonition was accurate, :(.


But I was doing my best to beat whatever victory he had to offer with my space victory, so I double bulbed the Space Elevator.



Qin does already have robotics, but unless he also has some spare Great Engineers sitting around I think I'm safe.



The two of us are miles ahead of everybody else. I get my Apollo Program finished and start on parts.



And I get some help on those parts with my new toy.



And then something funny happens.



I win the AP! Unfortunately a more thorough investigation shows that neither the Greeks nor the Russians have any Buddhist cities so no AP cheese for me.

I'm close behind in the space race.





Qin has more parts finished than I do, but he's still two techs away from Fusion.

China vassaled the remnants of Pericles and than turned the other cities on that island into a colony.



I keep making parts.





I should have started workshopping over the cottages in Prague earlier.



Better late than never I suppose. The other major mistake I made is putting my extra commerce into gold. I should have turned up the espionage slider so that I could at least attempt to sabotage production of Qin's engines.

A chop into Prague means that I finish this thruster at the same time as the other two I was planning on using.





Which allows for this launch.



It would have taken longer to build the other parts than was worth it. I crossed my fingers and hoped it would be enough.



I wasn't particularly hopeful. In the meantime Qin had declared war on and not vassaled, but actually completely conquered Isabella. A turn after I launched my ship Qin launched his fully complete ship and I knew I stood no chance. But just to add insult to injury.



There wasn't anything I could do about that.

......

A quick look at the map shows that it was going to be tougher than most.





It looks like I'm developing a habit of losing these ALC's, but I still enjoy doing them. They're pretty much the only games I finish anymore and in close games my inexperience hurts -- like not putting my extra commerce into espionage points. :lol:.

Anyways, much thanks to everybody who commented and gave advice! I appreciate it. Onwards to Wang Kon!
 
Oops, I was wrong on how many votes the Chinese had with the AP. It looks like I was right to fear the UN, though. I think it'd be interesting to see what would have happened if you'd gone for the UN instead of the Elevator.
Yay for the Koreans! I dislike their UBs, but the rest is pretty good.
 
Oops, I was wrong on how many votes the Chinese had with the AP. It looks like I was right to fear the UN, though. I think it'd be interesting to see what would have happened if you'd gone for the UN instead of the Elevator.

Exactly the same thing. In the game Catherine built the UN and then Qin was elected. If I had built it it would have been me against Qin and company. Qin still would have won the seat. I let him get too big. :(. I probably shouldn't have pushed him onto Pacal although it seemed like a good idea at the time.
 
I think the game was probably lost when you choose to be "chicken" and not be involved in things on the main continent, especially when you got cannon's advantage.

This same thing happened to me in the Gilgamesh IU game... I always remember me being 1T from launching 10T SS when KK voted himself victor.
 
to be fair His land was complete rubbish (and he suffered from subpar exploration) and Qin had enough land for two

if you'd explored better earlier you could proberly have gained 3-4 more cities on the main continent and then things would have looked much different

or maybe aiming at conquoring the isolated AI as soon as you figured out there was one of such
 
QSH got a stupid mass of land, and without intervention with cannons there was nothing you could do to stop him. Unfortunately, you had crap land and semisolation. Here's to the Wang one going better.
 
I think the game was probably lost when you choose to be "chicken" and not be involved in things on the main continent, especially when you got cannon's advantage.

Not intervening certainly didn't help. I'm unsure I would have been able to slow him down or if I would have just bounced off and caused myself more problems.

to be fair His land was complete rubbish (and he suffered from subpar exploration) and Qin had enough land for two

if you'd explored better earlier you could proberly have gained 3-4 more cities on the main continent and then things would have looked much different

or maybe aiming at conquering the isolated AI as soon as you figured out there was one of such

The lack of exploration was a very bad thing. I am not going to make that mistake again! And I thought about conquering another continent. I think it would have been worth going and taking the Greek island as soon as I met him and saw how backwards he was. Especially since I hadn't built the Forbidden Palace yet it would have been perfect.

QSH got a stupid mass of land, and without intervention with cannons there was nothing you could do to stop him. Unfortunately, you had crap land and semisolation. Here's to the Wang one going better.

Here's to that. :beer:
 
Please help me understand here. These are both in response to round 7.

1. Why do you ask the AI to change civics in a trade? What is the advantage to having them in Rep/Caste System?

2. Tech path? Why go Rail Road first and not Assembly Line? I would have gone with Assembly Line to pump out Infantry and factories. I'm a Monarch player, so I'm asking, not questioning :confused:
 
1. Why do you ask the AI to change civics in a trade? What is the advantage to having them in Rep/Caste System?

In this case there's no specific advantage to those civics. But by making them switch civics you make them spend a turn (or two) in anarchy which puts them a turn behind where they would have been. This is good for us.

Sometimes this doesn't work. Like in this game at the end I could have bribed Qin to change civics, but since he had the Cristo Redentor it wouldn't have made any difference.

Other common reasons you might want an AI to switch civics are:
  • You want trade routes with them, especially around Astronomy time, so bribe them out of Mercantilism and into Free Market.
  • You want a favorite civic diplo bonus with them so bribe them into their favorite civic.
  • You want to create religions strife/get positive religious diplo with an AI so you bribe them out of Free Religion and into a religious civic.

2. Tech path? Why go Rail Road first and not Assembly Line? I would have gone with Assembly Line to pump out Infantry and factories. I'm a Monarch player, so I'm asking, not questioning :confused:

Hmm. In the screenshots you can see that I'm starting Railroad, but that's just there as a holder as I reviewed the situation. I say, "up next is Assembly Line" and you can see 12 turns later when Assembly line comes in. Also, if you go farther down in the round, you can see the tech situation shows that Railroad still has to be researched. So don't worry, I did go Assembly Line first and just as you said so I can pump out factories as soon as possible.
 
Argh. That was unlucky. To be fair, your land was terrible :eek: and I'm sure the Korean one will go better :)
 
Wanted to do a corporation game, so searched civfanatics forum and found this Charlemagne game.

Terrible land, lagged behind in tech whole game, but managed to get SidSushi and won a narrow diplo win.

Imm/normal

 
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