Missile Cavalry

[Duke of Awesome]

hello all. I've got a question. I'm playing as the Byzantines and about 8-10 Seljuk Horse Archers just spawned in Anatolia to simulate the Seljuk invasion (i assume). Now this is probably historical but I have no counter to these at all. spearmen don't get a bonus against missile cav so basically the only thing that could possibly stand up against the barbs is my own horseman units but they would probably get killed one-on-one due to the extra first strikes that the Seljuks get. Is there anything I can do to counter these things?

[AnotherPacifist]

If you can't figure this out, wait till you see the Mongols!

Spoiler:

Best counter--settle a great general or 2 in Angora, build barracks/stable and use cataphracts (doubly promote with strength, and any further combat experience after that promote to bonus against missile cavalry). You can also try to weaken the barb stacks when they appear with catapults that are maximized for collateral damage. Doubly promoted marksmen behind walls/castle will be more than enough to defend cities. I also occasionally station some marksmen with forest advantage on forested hills with forts, e.g. the forested hill just north of Antioch.

[Duke of Awesome]

Originally Posted by AnotherPacifist

If you can't figure this out, wait till you see the Mongols!

Spoiler:

Best counter--settle a great general or 2 in Angora, build barracks/stable and use cataphracts (doubly promote with strength, and any further combat experience after that promote to bonus against missile cavalry). You can also try to weaken the barb stacks when they appear with catapults that are maximized for collateral damage. Doubly promoted marksmen behind walls/castle will be more than enough to defend cities. I also occasionally station some marksmen with forest advantage on forested hills with forts, e.g. the forested hill just north of Antioch.

then i must be extremely backwards technologically speaking because i dont have Cataphracts, or marksmen! or the ability to build forts for that matter... also arent the Seljuks mongols already?

[AnotherPacifist]

I think you have to prioritize getting either guilds or blast furnace.

You should accumulate GG points by attacking rebel cities.

The only other thing to do is just build lots of archers and swordsmen (probably your strongest unit at this time with fortification bonus) and turtle inside your city walls.

[Duke of Awesome]

Originally Posted by AnotherPacifist

I think you have to prioritize getting either guilds or blast furnace.

You should accumulate GG points by attacking rebel cities.

The only other thing to do is just build lots of archers and swordsmen (probably your strongest unit at this time with fortification bonus) and turtle inside your city walls.

yeah it sounds like i have to :/ should i have cataphracts at this time though? ive had to run at like 30% -40% science since the beginning of the game.

[AnotherPacifist]

Give away a city or 2 (e.g. ones that are going to flip to Rum in the future) to Armenia to lower your research costs. Conquer some rebel cities for XP and cash to boost your research.
Check system is rather important--you got to build gold to be able to get research up.

[Duke of Awesome]

alright thanks for your help

[embryodead]

Seljuks aren't Mongols, and they only have strength of 6. Promoted Horsemen work quite well, especially if you can get some of them to 10 XP, so that you can buy the Skirmish promotion, but even Combat I/II puts them at advantage (better than Flanking here). Also buy some mercenary Horse Archers! You can easily get 10+ horsemen/horse archers by the time Seljuks come.

[AnotherPacifist]

The problem, as you'll soon discover, is that even with good odds, the Mongols' extra first strikes will often kill your unit. So annoying.

[admfischer]

I just produced 80 Cataphractors to kill every Seljuks and traitors. It is possible, building markets from the start does wonders.

[jdowell]

Using stacks of Cataphrats is the best way but in order to do that your science needs to be around 50%. I used wonders to come up with the money. Build a small army and conquered Tarsos. Don't massacre the disbelievers!! Use sunni islam to build Spiral Minaret and Kutlug-Timar. If you can take the city early enough, you should not get beat to the wonders. Meanwhile build temples, monasteries, and markets. By around 100AD I got the Cataphrats. I used the same method for the Mongol Invasions. I went for blast furnace but didn't make it so I had to use noble cavalry. Make sure you have plenty because mongols tend to do better then the statistics show.

[Theodorick]

There's really no need to make such obsessive preparations for the Seljuk invasion. It's the Mongol invasions you need to really prepare for.

All I've always done is spammed an army using Angora, and then turtled. I'd build a few catapults too. Typically I'd lose a few units, but it's nothing serious. Then I use the surviving army to take over Rum when they spawn soon after. I've never felt any need of getting cataphracts or markaman in preparation for this invasion.

[jammerculture]

uummm, Rum spawns before the mongols, by about 150 years.

Pretty sure your thinking about the Seljuks

Cataphracts are easy to get before you need them if you prioritize markets for royal mint in Constantinople, then build Spiral Minaret in Damascus and orthodox buildings every where. Then you can trade for botany and cash crop from Armenia or Merkurios, so you really only have to research agricultural science and selective breeding on your own. I always get Cataphracts before 1000 AD (which is plenty early) and I am pretty sure I can get them even earlier with some new tricks I have learned.

Keep in mind, missile cavalry are supposed to be the ultimate weapon in the period so I think that having no real counter unit to them is more then justifiable.

[Theodorick]

I was talking about the Seljuk invasion, not how to prepare for the Mongol invasion.

[The Hyper Duck]

I've never had any serious problems with the Seljuk barbs... a few archers (w/at least one city defense promotion) and walls in all of your central Anatolian cities are enough to hold them off. Keep a few horsemen in the area to chase down the ones that withdraw. Don't bother with spearmen - if you have a barracks and archery range in your military production city then an archer will always be better; plus you can upgrade them to marksmen later.

The Mongols are another story entirely. You pretty much always have to prioritize Guilds and Castle Building, throw up walls/castles and fortify at least 3 promoted marksmen everywhere if you want to keep all of your cities. Your terrain improvements are all doomed, though.

This is true of basically every civ that spawns before and in the path of the Mongols, although if you're a Persia civ (Khwarezmids, Seljuks, etc.) you'll probably need a lot more marksmen because they really get hit hard. It makes the early game (especially the research path) for these civs rather predictable. The Georgians are a bit of an exception; their Mongol invasions aren't as severe, and Monaspa lancers are great for mowing over even undamaged horse archers before they get out of the hilly Caucasus.