All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace

[Narz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2j3BhL47c

Same guy who did Century of the Self, another interesting documentary from a few years ago. This is just the first segment in a series.

I dislike the length of some of the musical segments but it's certainly interesting & entertaining & a bit unnerving. I'm not much of a history buff & the filmmaker is certainly sewing together alot of history in one hour. Be curious to hear opinions from others of various backgrounds (computers, economics, history, world affairs, etc.) who have the time to take to watch it & very curious to see future episodes too. I've always felt strongly that the modern computer age is both an amazing & dangerous thing.

The part about how people commodity themselves for entertainment (and ultimately profit for the companies who host & sponsor their virtual outpourings) resonated with me. I've certainly poured a lot of emotional & intellectual energy into this medium over the past 10 years or so & often question the return on investment of it.

I guess this should eventually go into the Arts & Entertainment subforum but I thought I'd start it here for more feedback.

This series is from the BBC by the way.

[Patroklos]

Summary, video is not available at work

[Narz]

Summary

So far? It's all Ayn Rand's fault.

[RedRalph]

Brilliant stuff as usual from Curtis. how did you find out about it, Narz? i expect Cheezy will have something to say about it

[Narz]

Originally Posted by RedRalph

Brilliant stuff as usual from Curtis. how did you find out about it, Narz?

http://peakoil.com/forums/all-watche...is-t61651.html

[Mr. Dictator]

That was very informative. I'm also impressed by how well done that was.

But, where do we even go in conversation from there? As he said, no one really knows what to replace the new economy with.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dictator

That was very informative. I'm also impressed by how well done that was.

But, where do we even go in conversation from there? As he said, no one really knows what to replace the new economy with.

That's the ultimate question! One that hopefully politicians will address in the upcoming elections but it's doubtful they will expect in the usual superficial disingenuous ways.

[Mr. Dictator]

Originally Posted by Narz

That's the ultimate question! One that hopefully politicians will address in the upcoming elections but it's doubtful they will expect in the usual superficial disingenuous ways.

I really wouldn't hold my breath for any meaningful conversation on it

[Masada]

Not a bad documentary to be honest. Having said that, the explanation of the Asian Financial Crisis as it related to Indonesia was badly handled.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dictator

I really wouldn't hold my breath for any meaningful conversation on it

I never do anymore but hope springs eternal.

Originally Posted by Masada

Not a bad documentary to be honest. Having said that, the explanation of the Asian Financial Crisis as it related to Indonesia was badly handled.

Well I'm sure there were more factors at work but documentaries necessarily simplify to some degree. What would you have added, altered in that segment?

[Thoughtful Thug]

Originally Posted by Narz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz2j3BhL47c

Same guy who did Century of the Self, another interesting documentary from a few years ago. This is just the first segment in a series.

I dislike the length of some of the musical segments but it's certainly interesting & entertaining & a bit unnerving. I'm not much of a history buff & the filmmaker is certainly sewing together alot of history in one hour. Be curious to hear opinions from others of various backgrounds (computers, economics, history, world affairs, etc.) who have the time to take to watch it & very curious to see future episodes too. I've always felt strongly that the modern computer age is both an amazing & dangerous thing.

The part about how people commodity themselves for entertainment (and ultimately profit for the companies who host & sponsor their virtual outpourings) resonated with me. I've certainly poured a lot of emotional & intellectual energy into this medium over the past 10 years or so & often question the return on investment of it.

Look interesting. Ever seen that old Douglas Adams documentary "Hyperland"? Just saw that again.

I guess this should eventually go into the Arts & Entertainment subforum but I thought I'd start it here for more feedback.

Crappy sub-forum if you ask me.

This series is from the BBC by the way.

They are the best than what we get in the States that's fo shure.

[Masada]

Originally Posted by Narz

What would you have added, altered in that segment?

I would have made the point that Indonesia's problems owed more to the obstinate refusal on the part of Suharto, personally, to do anything about the problem. For reference in the mid-60s and early-80s he had managed to fend off significant economic problems by offering token reforms (that never seriously undertook) in exchange for IMF and WB support. These helped to avert significant domestic economic problems, which of course being a politician he took credit for. When this record of saving the country was combined with significant long-term economic growth it allowed him to claim, with some plausibility, to be the ‘father of development’. Why the late-90s were different is something we will never know. Some scholars have put it down to his being senile. I don't like that narrative and prefer to go with Suharto doing nothing precisely because his political survival was contingent upon his sound economic management up to that point. Backing down and making changes in this case would have been tantamount to committing political suicide, insofar as it admitted that his economic legacy, the very thing he was using to justify himself being in power was flawed.

[aelf]

Haven't watched it yet, but from the looks of it, I'm tentatively guessing that there's a lot of overlap with Zizek. Be back tomorrow to confirm or not.

[Algeroth]

I watched the first part and found it rather...underwhelming. It was good, But i expect better from Curtis. The first part was just Stiglitz's Globalization and its dissconects plus Ayn Rand bashing. But it is the second part that i'm looking forward.

[Knight-Dragon]

Moderator Action: Moved to A/E.

[Narz]

Episode #2 is out on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq0xVuRG4ng

[Narz]

2nd one was a bit of a disappointment though it certainly held my interest.

I think to some extent Curtis does what he accuses those he critiques of doing, oversimplification.

I do think the Club of Rome's intentions were good. And I don't think the realization that ecosystems are more dynamic & changing than originally envisioned means that we can do whatever we want & expect to adapt & prosper. If anything we should learn from how quickly ecosystems change, power rises & falls. It shows us how delicate our teetering place at the top is.

I enjoyed his deconstruction of the commune movement. It held my interest probably even more than it would most (people) because of some of my experiences at alternative schools and how in a vacuum (or a false egalitarian society) dominant personalities rule & can cause severe abuses of power. No, can isn't the right word... they pretty much predict abuses of power.

In the last couple of days I also watched Curtis's older documentary, The Trap, but I've found this one (All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace) much more engaging.

[Algeroth]

I'm disappointed with the second part.

First, Curtis's method of taking an issue, finding someone ideologicaly responsible and then framing him now degenerated into sad conspiracy theory. I had the same problems with first episode - It was good to see how much Ayn Rand were, but the idea of selfregulating markets goes back into the classical economy. You don't need Fountainhead and www to invent this idea.

And the ignorance of this root (classical economy) is what damages the second part in my eyes. Yes, the idea of cybernetics was very influental in ecology, but so it was Linnaeus's "economy of nature". The idea of balance in naure greatly precedes the 20th century.

Also, Curtis description of balance is some sort of statis - which is not what the "dehirearchized" movments suggest.

And the idea of "ecosystem" was invented by Clapham, not Tansley. Tansley popularized it. But this is not mention, it would not help the sinister image of orgins of ecology that Curtis is trying to create.

[Narz]

#3 is out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJYkkxh0rk

May watch in full tonight, may watch part tonight, part tomorrow, no A/C, it's hard to sleep.

[Narz]

Pretty engaging as usual but, as one YouTube viewer pointed out, this episode was even more disjointed & unfocused than previous ones. Too much repeated footage, the music & images don't always seem particularly appropriate.