Are cities built on one square islands worth it?

thecaesar · Jun 18, 2011

Just wondering, because on Archaepaligo the AI's spam these cities a ton. The way I see it, the only way these are worth it is if you have portugaul, the netherlands, or carthage, b/c of their UB's. Otherwise, you have to whip/buy everything, with one hammer per turn in that city. Even with all the commerce, it still isn't really worth it.

And yes, I know wonders (Moai Statues, The Colossus) will help, but let's just suppose we have no wonders. For now.

The7Sins · Jun 18, 2011

Only time they are is if your only source of Oil, Whale, Fish, Clam or Crab obtainable by you will fall within its BFC.

none · Jun 18, 2011

That's a long time investment but you can get a pretty large cultural zone (going for domination) that can be of interest for the reasons stated above.

Getting Taiwan in an Earth map can be a good idea in order to invade Asia. That's the sort of incentive one needs to build cities like these.

Ghpstage · Jun 19, 2011

The way I see it, the only way these are worth it is if you have portugaul, the netherlands, or carthage, b/c of their UB's.

Portugals UB is both late and pathetic while Carthages only adds one trade route and costs more than normal harbours. I would argue that the Aztec UB is at least as good as the Dutch for this type of city.

The real question is if it can pay for itself, and with the trade routes they offer this is very often the case, and if your isolated with just 2-3 one tile islands nearby its nearly always the case!
That being said, I rarely bother with the 1 tile islands that you find in the middle of nowhere once you have Astro.

Production can be a pain, but you do have a few options for :hammers:

, whip/rushbuy/draft/specialists and late game theres always corps.
Theres a few wonders that can help with production too, namely Moai, AP, Ankore Wat and Kremlin.

lymond · Jun 19, 2011

Actually, the most important wonder in this case is the Great Lighthouse. If you build it you will want to spam those nearby islands. Not only will you generate more trade route income, the fact that the city is offshore gives you boost foreign trade routes. The cities more than pay for themselves.

If there is at least 1 seafood, the city can usually function decently. More seafood the better, especially fish. Definitely a time where I make use of the "citizen" early.

Iranon · Jun 19, 2011

They're worth it just for the trade routes.

If you don't have the Great Lighthouse and they don't have access to seafood, they aren't a priority unless you have ORG though (cheap lighthouse makes quite a difference here).

Incidentally, I agree that the Sacrificial Altar is likely to be the most strongest UB for these.

thecaesar · Jun 19, 2011

lymond said:
Actually, the most important wonder in this case is the Great Lighthouse.

Yes, and the great lighthouse with the temple of artemis...

elmurcis · Jun 19, 2011

If have any fish/clam/crab, than ofcourse, it is (whip forge and can run engineer to get that production what need). Most useful - it don't need worker.
And on archip maps this will be "must build", to get your empire running later..

p.s. There is 1 thing I wish would be there in CIV... Statistics about every city - how many hammers has created, how much cost in all history, how much gold/science have generated and how much golds player has spent in this city to get it running (slavery good only if can keep it above size 3, except getting workboat for that food)

Ferrouswheel · Jun 19, 2011

My playstyle is militaristic and i settle on those islands for strategic points to ship off my navy and aircraft, personally I love em. They also provide money and food.

Gooblah · Jun 19, 2011

none said:
That's a long time investment but you can get a pretty large cultural zone (going for domination) that can be of interest for the reasons stated above.

Except Domination measures land percentage, not percentage of total area...therefore, those one-tile cities will get you one-tile for the domination win...not really that great.

They can buff population, but population usually isn't an issue.

mediterreania · Jun 19, 2011

none said:
That's a long time investment but you can get a pretty large cultural zone (going for domination) that can be of interest for the reasons stated above.

Getting Taiwan in an Earth map can be a good idea in order to invade Asia. That's the sort of incentive one needs to build cities like these.

I played Portugal on Tectonics, started in the New World, and spammed these cities as forward bases to invade Asia. And yes, I did get Taiwan.

none · Jun 20, 2011

Gooblah said:
Except Domination measures land percentage, not percentage of total area...therefore, those one-tile cities will get you one-tile for the domination win...not really that great.

They can buff population, but population usually isn't an issue.

Unless the map is really tiny! :lol:

If the cultural zone is big enough you may end up getting more squares even if they are outside city limits but you've got a point there.

The first time I went for these islands was when I was desperately trying to get the Holy Mountain and it was stuck in the middle of an ocean. Even after pumping some Great Artists I didn't manage to get it but it was close... One of my most frustrating memories of playing this game.

mediterreania said:
I played Portugal on Tectonics, started in the New World, and spammed these cities as forward bases to invade Asia. And yes, I did get Taiwan.

I'm a Marathon player and in the late game these islands can be invaluable for planes and when it comes to launching large scale attacks.

DOmar1990 · Jun 20, 2011

I always colonize islands near my country to prevent enemies to colonize it and use them as attack bridges. I also use small islands like military fortress for my external military forces because they provide home to my units like if they are at my country... so I dont have to pay maintenance for those units at all like standing on foreign territory.
I organize my military by: National Guard, Navy Guard, Air Guard which can NEVER leave my territory at any time so my defense is granted at all times. The second organization is my Army, Navy, and Air Force... this ones are mostly stationed on islands near another continent(s) or region(s) for fast response and intervention if needed at the time my country is safeguarded by my National Guard, Navy Guard, and Air Guard so I have no worry about using that stationed units on far islands to defend myself. (So in other words I colonize islands near me for prevent enemies doing the same as me... haha)

Dhoomstriker · Jun 20, 2011

none said:
The first time I went for these islands was when I was desperately trying to get the Holy Mountain and it was stuck in the middle of an ocean. Even after pumping some Great Artists I didn't manage to get it but it was close... One of my most frustrating memories of playing this game.

I believe that there is a limit as to how far out into the Ocean that your Cultural Borders can extend, and I'm pretty sure that that limit is something like "one Ocean square away from the nearest Coastal square."

So, I can see how it would indeed be a frustrating experience, given how the Cultural Borders would appear to "just stop expanding" after a certain point.

uat2d · Jun 21, 2011

Without shields, a city is useless.

In Civ3 this could be avoided with the Offshore Platform building, in Civ4 you either build the Moai Statues or Dikes, because if not then it's just not worth it.

none · Jun 21, 2011

uat2d said:
Without shields, a city is useless.

In Civ3 this could be avoided with the Offshore Platform building, in Civ4 you either build the Moai Statues or Dikes, because if not then it's just not worth it.

If you have seafood you can get by (especially with the Great Lighthouse). If shields are scarce then population or gold can be used to rush the buildings you need (or draft units). A one square city won't be a major production city but it doesn't mean it's necessarily useless. They may be more interesting later in the game (with airplanes) but I wouldn't call them useless.

Sian · Jun 21, 2011

running major Coperation spam, they're worthwhile

recently had a game where i used a practially useless tundra/ice city with nothing worthwhile as a military base which built up via Sushi/Mining, while spamming Forts nearby for aerial support for the push

thecaesar · Jun 21, 2011

uat2d said:
Without shields, a city is useless.

In Civ3 this could be avoided with the Offshore Platform building, in Civ4 you either build the Moai Statues or Dikes, because if not then it's just not worth it.

Yes, it's for this very reason I have been wanting to play an archepaligo game with the dutch to see just how good those islands would be... the best it could get is 3 :commerce:

, 1

, and 2

, without wonders... (Willem is financial)

Farm Boy · Jun 21, 2011

Depending on how many domestic trade routes you are using in your other cities - one tile off setting is flat out profitable. Remember that while a foreign city can only be used once for a trade route, any domestic city can be used all of your other cities for domestic trade if necessary. Granted foreign routes are better trade, but if you have enough routes that your empire is trading domestically, then adding one trade route everywhere with the overseas base commerce bonus is a flat out win even if in every other regard the one-tile city sits the entire game with its thumb up its butt.

s.bernbaum · Jun 21, 2011

What Farm Boy said!!

Also like Sian says, they can become very productive using Sushi and Mining - been there and done that.

Are cities built on one square islands worth it?

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