Can you anticipate an AI backstab?

Puhi · Jul 17, 2011, 12:54 PM

In a recent immortal game I ran into trouble when a 'pleased' ai was apparently bribed into attacking me, and I was wondering if there is some way to see this coming?

The situation: large pangea, everyone is buddhist except for Pacal, everyone is 'pleased' with me (including Pacal) and no one is in WHEOOHRN. Pacal seems like a good target, so I draft a bunch of rifles and attack. The very next turn, Stalin (who was pleased with me and not planning a war) declares and moves a very large stack into my territory. The only explanation I can see is that Pacal bribed him.

I completely failed to see this coming. Any advice on how to prevent this?

lymond · Jul 17, 2011, 01:00 PM

You need to pretty much expect that when you DOW on some AI after Alpha/Currency, that there is a chance that the AI could bribe in anyone he is mutually pleased or better with. The best way to handle this, if you are pleased or better with his allies, is to beg 1 gold off them to create a 10 turn peace treaty.

If the enemies ally(ies) are not pleased with you, then you need to be prepared for the possibility of them getting bribed in. Just beef up defenses near their border or if they are further away, be prepare for them sneaking in a small stack. Also, note that if your power rating is rather higher than these allies then you can demand gold or techs of them which will also create a peace treaty. However, if they are not much of a threat anyway, that ploy might not be worth it, especially if you might befriend them later.

Mylene · Jul 17, 2011, 01:05 PM

You can see it coming by checking the techs the AI you attack has, assuming Pacal with FIN was fairly advanced so he had enough to bribe others in on you. What you need to do here is wait with begs for small gold sums until you need 10 turn peace, beg it on the turn you attack.

Oh and if Stalin was a neighbour, scout where his stack is

If near you, you shouldn't have attacked if that stack is a danger, Stalin can go to war at pleased even without bribes (i think? lazy to check ~~)

MarigoldRan · Jul 17, 2011, 02:36 PM

Ask for 10 gold from every pleased AI that you're not planning to war with.

This stops them from backstabbing.

Keilah · Jul 17, 2011, 03:48 PM

I really feel like the gold-begging is an exploit and hate that everyone advises it :|

kossin · Jul 17, 2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilah

I really feel like the gold-begging is an exploit and hate that everyone advises it :|

It's no worse than the 'here, I will vassal to you in exchange for your DoW' mechanic. It's poorly implemented so there's a poor workaround.

Keilah · Jul 17, 2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kossin

It's no worse than the 'here, I will vassal to you in exchange for your DoW' mechanic. It's poorly implemented so there's a poor workaround.

That one infuriates me as well but i think it was how the game was intended to be. What there should be, is a system where you voluntarily pay an AI for ten turns of peace, like when they make a demand from you. Then they can choose whether or not to accept your peace offering. Oh well.

CaF · Jul 17, 2011, 04:54 PM

I think Pacal is exactly the AI that has the highest chance to bribe someone on you if you are in a war with him.

There are some ways to avoid those bribes. Begging gold is one option that gives you a time window. Another one is starting a chain war. You declare on Pacal, you bribe someone on Pacal, then bribe another one on your war ally etc. Once everyone is in a war they won't be bribed on you.

You have to know the candidates who can be bribed on you at pleased. Here is a list:

All russian leaders (Cathy can be bribed at friendly on you)
All french leaders
Alex
Bismarck
The Khans
Izzy
Julius
The Chinese
Mansa
Pacal
Monty
Shaka
Sulei
Sury
Toku
Zara
Vicky

MarigoldRan · Jul 17, 2011, 05:00 PM

Back-stabbing, no-good Russians.

Jul 17, 2011, 12:54 PM	#1
Puhi Chieftain Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 39	Can you anticipate an AI backstab? In a recent immortal game I ran into trouble when a 'pleased' ai was apparently bribed into attacking me, and I was wondering if there is some way to see this coming? The situation: large pangea, everyone is buddhist except for Pacal, everyone is 'pleased' with me (including Pacal) and no one is in WHEOOHRN. Pacal seems like a good target, so I draft a bunch of rifles and attack. The very next turn, Stalin (who was pleased with me and not planning a war) declares and moves a very large stack into my territory. The only explanation I can see is that Pacal bribed him. I completely failed to see this coming. Any advice on how to prevent this?

Jul 17, 2011, 01:00 PM	#2
lymond Synthetic Life Form Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,571	You need to pretty much expect that when you DOW on some AI after Alpha/Currency, that there is a chance that the AI could bribe in anyone he is mutually pleased or better with. The best way to handle this, if you are pleased or better with his allies, is to beg 1 gold off them to create a 10 turn peace treaty. If the enemies ally(ies) are not pleased with you, then you need to be prepared for the possibility of them getting bribed in. Just beef up defenses near their border or if they are further away, be prepare for them sneaking in a small stack. Also, note that if your power rating is rather higher than these allies then you can demand gold or techs of them which will also create a peace treaty. However, if they are not much of a threat anyway, that ploy might not be worth it, especially if you might befriend them later. __________________ "Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity." Christopher Morley lymond's YouTube Channel - Watch me play Civ4 poorly CFC GameOftheMonth(GOTM) Page - why are you not playing these ?

Jul 17, 2011, 01:05 PM	#3
Mylene Deity Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pangea Posts: 4,001	You can see it coming by checking the techs the AI you attack has, assuming Pacal with FIN was fairly advanced so he had enough to bribe others in on you. What you need to do here is wait with begs for small gold sums until you need 10 turn peace, beg it on the turn you attack. Oh and if Stalin was a neighbour, scout where his stack is If near you, you shouldn't have attacked if that stack is a danger, Stalin can go to war at pleased even without bribes (i think? lazy to check ~~) Last edited by Mylene; Jul 17, 2011 at 01:08 PM.

Jul 17, 2011, 04:54 PM	#8
CaF Warlord Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 239	I think Pacal is exactly the AI that has the highest chance to bribe someone on you if you are in a war with him. There are some ways to avoid those bribes. Begging gold is one option that gives you a time window. Another one is starting a chain war. You declare on Pacal, you bribe someone on Pacal, then bribe another one on your war ally etc. Once everyone is in a war they won't be bribed on you. You have to know the candidates who can be bribed on you at pleased. Here is a list: All russian leaders (Cathy can be bribed at friendly on you) All french leaders Alex Bismarck The Khans Izzy Julius The Chinese Mansa Pacal Monty Shaka Sulei Sury Toku Zara Vicky __________________ My youtube channel with civ 4 walkthroughs

Jul 17, 2011, 02:36 PM	#4
MarigoldRan WARLORD Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,279	Ask for 10 gold from every pleased AI that you're not planning to war with. This stops them from backstabbing.

Jul 17, 2011, 03:48 PM	#5
Keilah King Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 785	I really feel like the gold-begging is an exploit and hate that everyone advises it :\|

Jul 17, 2011, 05:00 PM	#9
MarigoldRan WARLORD Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,279	Back-stabbing, no-good Russians.

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