Civ5 Civilizations/Leaders Wanted!

[CivOasis]

Ok then, I apologize for my mistake.
Going to my ideas:
I'd like to see the Wari Empire (though, I must admit, I don't know enought about them to make a legitimate case of what their unique portions would be)
I'd definately like to see Brazil done in a manner similar to America & Japan (a mix of early and later portions). Don't have any abilities/units for them, but probably Pedro II for a leader.

For a more well thought-out civilization, I'd like to see Costa Rica as a civ. I know that's a bit random, but its certainly "unique".
For an ability, "Constitutionally Unarmed" - +50% defense in the capital, with extra food, science, and production from jungle tiles, at the cost of -50% military strength. Extremes, yes, but that's what balancing is for.
UU- Fuerza Publica. Replaces Paratrooper, cannot paradrop, but gets movement bonuses in rough terrain, and double strength (+unaffected by UA) in friendly territory. (Haha! I have come up with a military UU for a nation without a military!)
UB- Bioparque. Double yields from bonus resources and jungle tiles. Would probably replace stadium, for balance reasons.
Eclectic, probably needs balance work, but who wouldn't want to conquer the world as the only nation without a military? =)

[ShahJahanII]

Who knows how many "I want______civilization" threads there will be if this thread didn't exist.

[ShahJahanII]

Originally Posted by CivOasis

OK, so examples: I would like to see the Maya, with the following:
Leader: Siyaj K'ak. I know everyone likes Pakal, but I'd honestly never heard of him before, and it seems like he held a much smaller region.
UI: Temple Complex. +1 culture, jungle tiles only.
UU: Halach Uinich, replaces Great General, but not a civilian unit. No idea how they would make it useful in every era, but still.
Open to comments and suggestions, of course.

1 per jungle tile is underpowered. Just to compete with Polynesia's Moai you would need to make it 2-3 per jungle tile. You should make this even larger for tiles with resources on them.
I don't want another great general replacement other than the Khan. Of course, I myself made one up, but it was an entirely naval one. Maybe a ball court, which would replace a coliseum and give extra happiness and/or culture along with the regular benefits.
Never heard of the leader.
What do you think about the current Maya UA idea?
I would change it to 5% of the current is added to or vice versa (which is probably better, since it isn't hard to get 1,000 science).
Bulgaria is OP as well, should be 5% also.
Kush is also waaaaaay too OP. I like the ideas but 25 for a stable replacement? I would like 10%. The UA is basically Babylon's with Great Merchants, but is a great idea.

[CivOasis]

Originally Posted by ShahJahanII

1 per jungle tile is underpowered. Just to compete with Polynesia's Moai you would need to make it 2-3 per jungle tile. You should make this even larger for tiles with resources on them.
I don't want another great general replacement other than the Khan. Of course, I myself made one up, but it was an entirely naval one. Maybe a ball court, which would replace a coliseum and give extra happiness and/or culture along with the regular benefits.
Never heard of the leader.
What do you think about the current Maya UA idea?
I would change it to 5% of the current is added to or vice versa (which is probably better, since it isn't hard to get 1,000 science).

Oh, geez, forgot about the UA.
Ok, for some background, Siyaj K'ak' was actually mid 4th-early 5th century general from Teotihuacan, who overthrew leaders from several Mayan states (most notably Tikal), and replaced them with descendants of the king of Teotihuacan (Atlatl Cauac), and acted as overlord to these many Mayan kingdoms.
I had envisioned him with a UA relating to either puppeted cities or city-states, as both would reflect his nature, and to make him a true "diplomatic" leader.
That being said, I do think that scientific civs are lacking, so that UA is cool, too.
As for the ball court, it would work, it just seemed too obvious.
And my original Halach Uinich idea replaced the warrior, but there are too many of those, and it didn't properly represent them.

[ShahJahanII]

Originally Posted by CivOasis

Oh, geez, forgot about the UA.
Ok, for some background, Siyaj K'ak' was actually mid 4th-early 5th century general from Teotihuacan, who overthrew leaders from several Mayan states (most notably Tikal), and replaced them with descendants of the king of Teotihuacan (Atlatl Cauac), and acted as overlord to these many Mayan kingdoms.
I had envisioned him with a UA relating to either puppeted cities or city-states, as both would reflect his nature, and to make him a true "diplomatic" leader.
That being said, I do think that scientific civs are lacking, so that UA is cool, too.
As for the ball court, it would work, it just seemed too obvious.
And my original Halach Uinich idea replaced the warrior, but there are too many of those, and it didn't properly represent them.

I don't know much about the Mayans, you seem to know a lot though
And the UA never has to do with the leader, look at Germany/Bismarck, Furor Teutonicus clearly represents the Germanic tribes, but Bismarck was a 19th century leader.

[Pouakai]

What civ aspects do we have thus far?

America - Expansion?
Arabia - Economic
Aztec - Domination / Borderline cultural
Babylon - Science
China - ???
Denmark - Domination
Egypt - Production / Wonder hoarder
England - Naval
France - Cultural / late domination?
Germany - Domination
Greece - Domination / Economic
Inca - Productive
India - Tall
Iroquois - Productive
Japan - Domination
Korea - Science
Mongolia - Domination
Ottoman - late domination?
Persia - Cultural / Tall empire
Polynesia - Naval
Rome - Domination
Russia - Expansion?
Siam - Economic / CS
Songhai - Domination
Spain - Expansion


So from that, we see we only have two Science civs, and are in dire need of more

[ShahJahanII]

Originally Posted by Pouakai

What civ aspects do we have thus far?

America - Expansion?
Arabia - Economic
Aztec - Domination / Borderline cultural
Babylon - Science
China - ???
Denmark - Domination
Egypt - Production / Wonder hoarder
England - Naval
France - Cultural / late domination?
Germany - Domination
Greece - Domination / Economic
Inca - Productive
India - Tall
Iroquois - Productive
Japan - Domination
Korea - Science
Mongolia - Domination
Ottoman - late domination?
Persia - Cultural / Tall empire
Polynesia - Naval
Rome - Domination
Russia - Expansion?
Siam - Economic / CS
Songhai - Domination
Spain - Expansion


So from that, we see we only have two Science civs, and are in dire need of more

I think 1 more will do, Babylon and Korea are too good IMO.
You have the Maya and a few more recommendations on the list.
I would love a / civ.
We don't have any of those.

[CivOasis]

Well, first off:
China's definitely domination.
Russia's Expansion/domination

I agree on the need for a science civ.
A culture/science would be cool, but it might be overpowered (science generally comes from wide empires, culture from tall. The only real mixes are massive puppet empires)
There's also no real diplo civs (well, maybe greece, but still).
It may be the "cheapest" victory, but I feel it needs a few civ's to specialize in.

(My uber-eclectic Costa Rica civ is kinda science-y...)

[Pouakai]

I feel you can get more science than culture per turn from a tall empire, due to Library etc having " 1 science per 2 citizens, while Monument etc. just have a flat '2 culture' bonus.

Maybe a civ that gets culture per pop from culture buildings?

[CivOasis]

Originally Posted by Pouakai

I feel you can get more science than culture per turn from a tall empire, due to Library etc having " 1 science per 2 citizens, while Monument etc. just have a flat '2 culture' bonus.

Maybe a civ that gets culture per pop from culture buildings?

I don't know about a UA that does that, but how about Nepal/Mustang with a "gompa" UB that does that?

As for the tall/wide with culture, I was referring to policies, not culture generated. Sorry for the confusion.

[Pouakai]

Aah, thought you might be

And I like that idea about the Nepal civ, could have a Gurkha UU

[CivOasis]

Rifleman replacement? I'd say better movement in rough terrain, but I think it needs to be cooler than that, for uniqueness. Maybe combat bonuses if adjacent to mountains?

By the way, Pouakai as in the eagles?

[jabbawackybacky]

Originally Posted by CivOasis

OK, so examples: I would like to see the Maya, with the following:
Leader: Siyaj K'ak. I know everyone likes Pakal, but I'd honestly never heard of him before, and it seems like he held a much smaller region.
UI: Temple Complex. +1 culture, jungle tiles only.
UU: Halach Uinich, replaces Great General, but not a civilian unit. No idea how they would make it useful in every era, but still.
Open to comments and suggestions, of course.

Originally Posted by ShahJahanII

1 per jungle tile is underpowered. Just to compete with Polynesia's Moai you would need to make it 2-3 per jungle tile. You should make this even larger for tiles with resources on them.
I don't want another great general replacement other than the Khan. Of course, I myself made one up, but it was an entirely naval one. Maybe a ball court, which would replace a coliseum and give extra happiness and/or culture along with the regular benefits.
Never heard of the leader.
What do you think about the current Maya UA idea?
I would change it to 5% of the current is added to or vice versa (which is probably better, since it isn't hard to get 1,000 science).

The Ball Court was the UB in Civ 4. However, I don't think it's a very good UB, considering the ball courts existed in every Mesoamerican civilization, including the Aztecs. You might as well just make in an Aztec UB.


My idea for a Mayan abilities/features etc
UA
Timekeeping: Culture buildings (Monuments, Temples) increase by 5% or possibly the other way around, and +1

UI
Milpa farms-built on jungles, improve +2 +1 (not sure about the balance of this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milpa

UB
Puuc pyramid (should have a better name IMO, perhaps "Chaac pyramid" or "Kukulkan pyramid" or something like that, replaces temple)
Increases food, production, science and culture of the city by 1 each OR (as you suggest) a bonus to jungle or forest terrain, perhaps some other bonus to farms/agriculture ?

UB
House of Chilam (replaces library)
Not sure what the best bonus for this would be, but considering Mayan writing systems this would be an appropriate UB. Chilam were Mayan prophets who recorded esoteric knowledge in the Mayan glyphs. With the Mayan timekeeper priests they recorded when it was good to plant crops, when disasters would come, etc
Added bonus +1 , +1 , +1 in the city per turn.

UB
Caracol (replaces observatory)
Doesn't need mountains, Artist specialists produce +1 and Scientist specialists produce +1

UU
Unsure, but it should be a unit which replaces the archer or crossbowman. Since there is already an american civ with a unit which replaces the archer, perhaps a unit to replace the crossbowman. This would be historically accurate as Mayan cities in the Peten survived 160 years after the first Spanish attacks and managed to repeatedly repel Spanish invasion.

Anyways, obviously not all suggestions would work together but IMO Mayans should be a civilization that focuses around:

(1) Exploiting jungles in a sufficient way. No other civ is particularly suited at living in jungle areas the way, say, Incans are suited to living around mountains. Mayan people live in a sustainable manner in the jungle to this day, using cycle slash and burn to feed the population.
(2) Timekeeping. Their civilization, like all mesoamerican civs, was focused on understanding time (as are modern Mayans), however Mayans seem to have specialized in it. This often involved recording temporal events to predict future events. Hence the science and food bonus for culture buildings.
(3) Related to the timekeeping, Mayan civilization was deeply concerned with both science and time.
(4) Archer UU, since their tactics involved a lot of ambushes with ranged weapons.

As for the leaderhead, I don't think the Mayan leader should be a king from Teotihuacan, although that leader sounds cool too. I would prefer a leader from within the Mayan civilization itself. Pakal has that advantage.

As for who Pakal is, he is the Mayan king for whom we have probably one of the best understandings of, thanks to the fact that the content of his life was meticulously recorded. He was the king of Palenque and built the temple of inscriptions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakal
The fact we know so much about him is what makes him such a good king.

Also, I know my suggestions aren't balanced they are fairly general.

Mayans should have a unique play style focused around jungles terrain as well as a choice between science and culture victory.

[Lee The Great]

Originally Posted by ShahJahanII

there is already a Russia, there is no need for a Soviet Union/USSR
Also, we would appreciate it if you came up with Unique components for these
For Example,

Byzantine Empire
UA (Unnamed): 25% Generation in each city
UU1: Dromon (Replaces Trireme): Has 40% vs. land units and 50% vs. other naval units. 2 must be set up prior to firing. Twice as expensive to build or buy.
UU2: Cataphract (Replaces Knight): 23, 50% vs. siege units
UB(Replaces circus): Hippodrome: +2 per ivory or horse resource within the city radius, +15 xp. to all mounted units trained in the city
and while I am at it, let me update my previous posts...




UU(Replaces frigate): Thalam: +1 range
UU(Replaces Great General): Pirivu: Can not enter land. Will spawn when a certain number of xp. points are gained through naval battles. Has a range of 3. Gives 40% bonus to all naval units in its range.

I apologize..I am new to Civilization games. I'm learning alot of this stuff right now

[ShahJahanII]

Originally Posted by Lee The Great

I apologize..I am new to Civilization games. I'm learning alot of this stuff right now

that is fine, you are in the right place, these forums.
Feel free to comment on my ideas for this favorite civ of yours.

[CivOasis]

Well, relating to the Mayans:
Archers wouldn't really represent them, they used more spears and atlatls.
Most of your UB suggestions seemed a little too strong.
I'm not sure why everyone's focused on the Mayans and time, something relating to 0 would be better, in my opinion. And something a little more unique than benefits to a building, that's more along the lines of what a mod should attempt, not an "official" civ.
I'm aware of who Pakal is, after seeing all the suggestions, but he's more like the King Tut of the Mayans... hardly qualified, in my opinion.
Catherine isn't Russian (German, I believe), yet she ruled over Russia. Teotihuacan is more similar to the Maya than Germany is to Russia, and it's not like Siyaj K'ak actually ruled Teotihuacan, either, just Mayan states.
I do agree with giving a jungle/science bonus to them, though.

[jabbawackybacky]

Originally Posted by CivOasis

Well, relating to the Mayans:
Archers wouldn't really represent them, they used more spears and atlatls.

They used both bows and spears, presumably with different tactical applications. Either way, any UU they have would replace the archer or xbow

Most of your UB suggestions seemed a little too strong.

Yes they are I was merely posting them as concepts. They can be nerfed later, I merely want to suggest certain ability/building combinations.

I'm not sure why everyone's focused on the Mayans and time, something relating to 0 would be better, in my opinion.

Because the Mesoamericans and Mayans in particular had and still have a very meticulous calendrical system. The cycles of time play very heavily into the mythology and religion of all Mesoamericans in different ways, and the Mayans most of all seemed to believe in looking for cycles in time.

Their system of time was doubly important because they lived in such a volatile environment that they needed to be able to predict violent events, when the rains were arriving, and when the sunny season would come. Even getting things a few days off could ruin a year's crops.

And something a little more unique than benefits to a building, that's more along the lines of what a mod should attempt, not an "official" civ.

But there are policies which do this, I dont see a problem with a UA giving this esp considering how the Mayans used their temples and monuments.

I'm aware of who Pakal is, after seeing all the suggestions, but he's more like the King Tut of the Mayans... hardly qualified, in my opinion.
Catherine isn't Russian (German, I believe), yet she ruled over Russia. Teotihuacan is more similar to the Maya than Germany is to Russia, and it's not like Siyaj K'ak actually ruled Teotihuacan, either, just Mayan states.

Pakal was not so much a king tut since he ruled for quite some time and led major military campaigns, dying at a very old age.

[CivOasis]

For the Mayan UU, they really DIDN'T use a ton of bows. Were they there? Certainly, but preference was placed on the atlatl- frankly, I think a better UU would be the atlatl, as a ranged unit replacing the spearmen, without the mounted bonus.
The time thing, as true as it is, could equally be said of many civilizations, all the way back to Sumeria, and is a little over-emphasized, as opposed to 0, which was a new concept when the Mayans developed it.
UA, guess that's just gameplay preference.
With Pakal, I guess he beats out Tut (I was referring to the fact that he is better known because we found so much, not because he'd done anything especially significant), I just have a personal preference for the other.

[jabbawackybacky]

The belief that the Mayans and Mesoamericans had a mythology centered around cycles of time is totally legitimate. Most Mayanists I have read note it, and their mathematics (including their concept of 0) was related to and may have come out of their attempts to understand the cycles of time. Even if it is a little over-emphasized, the Mayan and Mesoamerican belief in time cycles is one of its distinctive features. In fact, thanks to their careful timekeeping it is easier to date times in Mesoamerican civilization than any other societies living with stone technology. If the estimates of how the Mesoamerican and Western calendar systems is correct, historians know the exact day of Pakal's birth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoame...Count_calendar
Compare this to the dating for early Indian, Persian, Middle Eastern or even the early Greek leaders. It's not until the iron age later Greeks and the Romans that you get a dating system so accurate. The Mayans on the other hand (or possibly the Olmecs or a similar culture) had developed a timekeeping system that was universal and accurate, and matched up well with astrological events.

As for the UU an atlatl would still replace an archer, the whole advantage of the atlatl was that it could be thrown farther. Also I think it would be nice to have a generic ranged skirmisher unit, and losing the horses bonus for spearmen is kind of rough if you're fighting a civ with horses. Civ 4 Holkan still had the bonus vs horses. Also every Aztec and Inca aready have ancient or classical era units; to even it out it would be nice if the Mayan UU was a late classic or medieval era unit (obviously one which does not require iron).

[MARDUK80]

OP UPDATED Continued in POST 5.


Four New Civilizations:

Anasazi ( Puebloan )
Leader: Popé
Unique Improvement: Kiva. Available at the Discovery of Masonry. +2 Food and +4 Culture from the tile. No addition to this Food, Production or other benefits of the tile.
Unique Building: Pueblos. Replaces Barracks. Cost: 80. Maintenance: 1. +30 XP, not 15, for all Land Units. Also gives +1Food. Cities with Pueblos and a Road connection to the Capital give additional +1 Happiness.
Unique Ability: Adobe Dwellings. Cities and Forts (tile improvement) built within a 2 tile range of a Mountain gain a +20% Defense Bonus. Citizens can also work Mountain tiles ( 2 Production & 1 Gold) and earn +1 Production from Desert tiles.

Khazar
Leader: Ziebel
Unique Unit: Khagan Bek. Replaces Great General. Upon spawing a Great General, there is even chance that it is a Khagan or a Bek - The Bek gives a larger bonus to nearby troops than the regular GG. The Khagan does not benefit troops at all, however it improves tile yields for friendly cities within the same radius of effect. Note: They get randomly chosen upon spawning, they can't flip from being Khagan to Bek - it's one or the other. It was intended to be chance when it was spawned, and then remained either Khagan or Bek throughout its life.
Unique Unit: Varangian Mercenary. Replaces Pikeman. Cost: 100. Strength: 14, not 10. Movement: 2. Note: Armed with halbred, this mercenary unit does devastation against mounted units, but also has high combat value against melee units.
Unique Ability: Pax Khazarica. Resources from friendly City-States doubled. Receives Military Units from friendly City States double the usual rate when Piety Social Policy is enabled.

Phoenicia
Leader: Pygmalion
Unique Unit: Bireme. Replaces Trireme. Cost 75, not 60. Strength 9, not 6. Ranged strength 4. Range 2. 5 Movement, not 4.
Unique Building: Canaanite Archive. Replaces Library. Cost: 80. Maintenance: 1. Addition to the Great Scientist slot this Phoenician unique library has also a Great Merchant slot.
Unique Ability: Thalassocracy. In peace time, all naval units contribute +0.5 happiness. In wartime, all naval units gain +2 ranged strength. Also 25% of Gold spent on Research Agreements is converted into Culture.

Poland
Leader: Jan III Sobieski
Unique Unit: Winged Hussar. Replaces Lancer.Cost 230, not 220. Strength 24, not 22. Movement 4. Starts with Blitz promotion and therefore can attack multiple times per turn.
Unique Unit: Ulan Cavalry. Replaces Cavalry. Cost 270, not 260. Movement 4, not 3. Strength 25. No penalty vs other mounted and 33% withdrawal chance when attacked.
Unique Ability: Democratic Commonwealth. -25 Unhappiness from Regular population and -50% Unhappiness from population of Puppet cities. Receives free Great People of choice when adopting Democracy Social Policy under Freedom branch.


Fixes and Changes:

- I have run out of space in post 2. The list is now continued in post 5.
- Removed Korea (released as DLC 11/08/11)
- Slightly buffed Carthaginian War Elephant UU
- Linked Polar Bears post with more info about Inuit leader.
- Changed Finnish UU Runonlaulaja (Scout replacement) to White Death UU (Infantry replacement)
- Changed Vietnam UU Light Artillery (Artillery replacement) to Fire Lancer (Crossbowman replacement)
- Changed Sioux UI Tipi to UU Wahpekute (Knight replacement)
- Changed Cherokee UI Mound to UU Chickamauga (Musketman replacement)
- Changed Cherokee UA Adobe Dwellings to Adaptative Culture: Culture cost of Acquiring new tiles reduced by 50%. Also River tiles give addional +1 Food and extra defense for attacked Cherokian Units. +2 Gold from Deer resources.
- Byzantine UU Dromon (Trireme replacement) changed to Varangian Guard (Longswordman replacement).

Thanks a lot to Pouakai for the idea that was used for Khazar Khagan/Bek concept. He originally visioned it as a Cherokee UU. I hope you don't mind I used it here. I felt it fit perfectly for the Khazar Civilization


I will add new complete ideas (Civ+Leader+All UC's) from this thread to the post 5 later this month.