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Old Aug 03, 2011, 08:36 AM   #1
LunarMongoose
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Version 4.0 Discussion Thread

I've updated the "Change Log" sticky with my notes thus far for this update, and will try to keep it updated every few days.

So far the only SDK change has been the Sandworm fix back in April, but I'll be getting on to more of that shortly.

XML highlights so far include two new units, one new resource, tweaking some Future Era unit stats, and overhauling many civic stats.

Feel free to use this thread to comment on the changes so far, and on this version specifically after it's finished and posted. The main thread will remain the place to discuss the mod as a whole.

(This is my debut attempt at adding more threads to the subforum btw, so please use it! )
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 11:02 AM   #2
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So much for the dedicated "version xyz discussion thread" idea, lol. Oh well, I'll stick with it anyway.

PM 3.2, combined with the Marsh, Scrub and Oasis rainfall-based placement I've added, is churning out some freakin amazin mapz just so you guys know. I'm REALLY excited to be able to play on them eventually.

I'm continuing to make some more XML changes at the moment. I still want to try and tackle a couple of heavy-lifting code projects in this update too, but if they're gonna drag on for a huge amount of time I'll just release what I've got at a certain point.

But seriously... PM 3.2 MME is a big deal as far as improvements to the mod go, and exhausting as it was, I'm glad I updated the mapscript. That's all I'm sayin.
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 07:37 PM   #3
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Edit - Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Carry on...
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Old Jan 04, 2012, 06:30 AM   #4
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Hey Lunarmongoose,

don't be frustrated. You are not the only one out there who is playing Mongoose Mod. We are a group of three, that is playing Mongoose Mod once every week.

It is a fantastic Mod, better than any other Variant of Civilization that I have played before.

Currently I am working on a huge map of Africa for Mongoose Mod, which I will finish sometime in February. I will post it here then. It's already more then 50% finished, but it's really big and I am trying to make it as realistic and as playable as possible at the same time, and that simply takes a while.

I am also going to post a more detailed feedback shortly, inlcuding some suggestions for improvements.
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Old Jan 04, 2012, 11:09 AM   #5
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don't be frustrated. You are not the only one out there who is playing Mongoose Mod. We are a group of three, that is playing Mongoose Mod once every week.
I haven't actually played it for over a year... it's hard to sink time into something that I know I still plan to make lots of changes to, lol. Always thrilled to hear from active MM users though, so thanks for your post!

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It is a fantastic Mod, better than any other Variant of Civilization that I have played before.
You know, I keep trying to TELL people that, but for some reason they never really believe me.

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Originally Posted by Rakete4 View Post
Currently I am working on a huge map of Africa for Mongoose Mod, which I will finish sometime in February. I will post it here then. It's already more then 50% finished, but it's really big and I am trying to make it as realistic and as playable as possible at the same time, and that simply takes a while.
Wow, my first-ever 3rd-party add-on component... awesome! Be sure to start a new thread for it in this subforum when you're ready!

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I am also going to post a more detailed feedback shortly, inlcuding some suggestions for improvements.
Yep, feedback and suggestions are always appreciated! This thread is kinda intended for discussing the upcoming 3.6.2 version specifically though, so maybe put it in the main thread? Gotta try and keep things organized, mwa ha ha.

Speaking of 3.6.2, I'm gonna update the in-progress patch notes sticky pretty soon, so feel free to look that over if you want...

Also, I'm probably gonna go ahead and release the update itself sooner rather than later. Land privateers and civic exclusions may have to wait til the next version (or longer if I fail at coding them haha), but I've got a lot of changes piled up now that should improve gameplay and balance a lot, so I wanna get those out the door. Plus I'm dying to turn over the awesome PM 3.2 MME mapscript to you all.
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Old Jan 10, 2012, 05:34 PM   #6
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It's coming along... I've added the much-requested game option to disable "unrealistic" units, got the event start and stop points showing in the tech mouseover text so those won't be a hidden mystery any more, and done a bunch more tweaking.

I decided I REALLY didn't want to move Forest Chopping up, so I found an alternate (and cooler) solution: I added a new Cottage version that can be built inside Forests but doesn't upgrade. I'm pretty sure it'll work even better as an inland commerce solution, cuz it's available even sooner than Advanced Tools, and can also be put in Jungles. Just chop down the trees and build a normal Cottage later to get the upgrades. (Oh, and I went ahead and moved the normal Cottage to Pottery like you suggested, but I transferred a point of commerce from the Hamlet-Town improvements to the Monarchy tech so they're still connected to it.)

In actually taking a look at things, I decided pretty quickly that moving the Slinger is NOT a good idea, for several reasons. First, it's already countered pretty well by the Stone Axe and War Dog units... Second, in Military Training you're putting the unit very close to its upgrade type, the Archer, which is bad design... Third, Military Training, like Military Tactics, was meant to be a completely optional tech, even throughout the whole game potentially. Putting something that essential in there kinda kills the optional effect, heh. Oh and fourth, the Incan unique warrior unit, the Quechua, obliterates Slingers anyway - they should be free experience for them - so if you want more difficult early defense you can always play against them lol... Also fifth, I'm pretty sure we NEED Slingers where they are to survive Raging Barbarians. Heh.

SO! Instead I've slightly nerfed the Slinger (just his Hill Defense... it's okay if hilled cities aren't automatically completely unassailable til a bit later), adjusted the build costs so he costs the most of the 3 in Fine-Edged Tools now, and buffed the Warrior and War Dog some more. It was definitely a mistake to have the Slinger be so cheap; I was going off the Archer vs Bronze Melee paradigm where the Archer is cheaper, but there the Archer also has a much lower base strength... Sorry about that heh. I think this new setup will mostly solve the strong-early-defense problem without having to move the Slinger to a later tech.

It looks like I'm actually going to be adding 2 wonders in this version... I was originally intending to put the Labyrinth in for the Economy Civic unlock, but then I remembered that's a seperate story from Midas (oops ), so it wound up evolving into a world wonder version of an Aztec Sacrificial Altar that unlocks the Healthcare category instead haha, and I still need to find a suitable wonder for the other one. (It didn't occur to me until now that the Economy category is singularly unbalanced for early unlocking b/c 4 of the 5 available civics affect Corporation costs or availability, which are of course moot until much later, so balance is screwy going in. I COULD just leave the category sealed as a result; we'll see.)

Still gotta finish going through the suggested items from the main thread, read Andy's war weariness thread which I apparently never read (lol sorry, dunno how I missed it), adjust tech costs, add my era-based changes to tech costs and Settlers, and do some other fairly-minor stuff on my list. I'm going to release it at that point and save the heavy-lifting programming projects for later, so at the rate I'm currently going 3.6.2 might be out in the next 1 to 2 weeks, but you saw what happened when I tried to predict the mapscript finish time.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 06:03 AM   #7
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Just want to encourage you in your work by saying that my work on the map of Africa is also making progress. It is now 80% finished. So I moved up from 50% within only two weeks Central Africa from Southern Sudan down to Zimbabwe still looks quite poor, but the other regions are mostly finished. I will upload a Beta-Version in about two weeks and a Final version later when I have tested the gameplay.


You idea about stone-age cottages is great and will improve the game a lot.
The changes in strength and build points for the stone-age military units are a good idea as well.
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Old Jan 11, 2012, 08:53 AM   #8
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There was a several-day delay recently b/c my friend and I got Master of Orion 2 multiplayer working over the internet which we'd never been able to do before, and we stopped to play that... And I'll probably have to spend several more nights yet to come finishing our game... But other than that I'm pretty much working on this 24/7, don't worry. (Once I get into crunch mode on something I'm pretty single-mindedly obsessed, hehe.)

Great to hear your map is coming along well! Though I can't wait to show you my PM 3.2 MME script too. Plus the new Pirate unit is really awesome as well... 3.6.2 is gonna be an amazing update for having only very limited SDK changes in it, which seems strange to me lol.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 12:00 PM   #9
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Alright, the bad news is it may take a little longer than I was expecting to finish this update. The good news is the reason why: I'm actually going to expand the Prehistoric Era a little, and also finally go ahead with a bit of a civic overhaul I've been wanting to do for ages.

The former comes about as a result, initially, of the prehistoric military unit adjustments, followed by some re-discoveries in other mods of things I could add, and some additional thought I've put into the whole thing.

The latter comes about as a result, initially, of a day-long hunt for button icons while going through and updating some things, followed by a whole bunch of very intense brain-whipping to try and figure out exactly what I always wanted to do in the civic window and couldn't quite put my llama hoof on.

I finally figured it out, and I'm going to lay intellectual claim to my slightly-modified civic design AND my new icon selections, b/c the last time around (back in 2006) my civics and icon choices got snarfed up by RoM and/or some other mods, and freely distributed to every mod in existence from there... Without me ever getting credit for them. Which I'm still annoyed about. Just saying.

Anywho, this is REALLY fun work, and it's actually only gonna take me a few extra days probably, but just wanted to let you know about the detour I recently veered off on.
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 03:32 AM   #10
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OKAY! Making excellent progress, and as a result I'm further away from finishing this update than ever! Rofl. Srsly, that's how I feel.

For those who may not yet have noticed the subtle change in my forum signature, this update has, as of a couple days ago, officially become so massive and all-encompassing - despite a lack of major SDK work (which still seems strange to me) - that the designation is now version 3.7. Thank you, thank you, but please hold your applause.

Since my last post there's been more tweaking (when is there ever not?), got animal Native settings showing in their info (yay woohoo), accomplished something I previously thought was a practical impossibility due to the amount of work involved (shrinking the Mountain Cottage series to fit on Peaks better while still using the LSystem), AND, mainly... finished both my civic system update and my Prehistoric Era update.

I've still got another 1-2 weeks of less-flashy under-the-hood work to do before I can release this version, but I'm feeling AMAZINGLY happy with it already at this point. So you won't have to completely take my word for this however, I'm posting a screenshot of my new civic screen. It was actually done 2 days ago, but I literally didn't have time to stop and write this til now. As I said earlier, it fixes the major conceptual problems I'd been having for years with certain civics being where they were (plus it adds my kewl new Alien Worship and Neural Interface ideas), so please let me know what you think.

http://homepage.mac.com/klwelch/Civ4.../LM_Civics.jpg
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Old Jan 19, 2012, 03:33 AM   #11
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For purposes of being able to lay intellectual claim to these new civics and this new use of icons in the future (so I don't have a repeat experience of my initial 2006 civics and icons going completely uncredited), here's a text summary to prove I did them this way first, as of this post date: 19 Jan 2012.

(I maintain that hunting down and picking out icons is a time-consuming and creative accomplishment worth laying claim to, even if I didn't make the icons myself. Sorry again to those who're offended by this. P.S.: I DID make a couple of the icons myself that're in my mod - U2 Dragonlady, Mi24 Hind, and Missile Cruiser - but I only do that when I absolutely have to, heh.)

Civic Sub-Category System and center-right Status Bar placement are new with LM's Civics Advisor v2.0. Barbarism: Guerilla, Belligerence: Gladiator School, Pacifism: White Plasma w/ Gold Ribbons, Manifest Destiny: Washington Monument at Dusk, Nomadism: Gray African Hut, Tribalism: Indian Chief, Caste System: Final Frontier Eye Pyramid with People, Humans Only: Purple Starship Crew, Cooperative Society: Terra Computer (Scifi Michelangelo Fingers Touching), Androids Only: Kneeling White Robot, Decentralization: Gray Treasure Chest, Mercantilism: Brown Wig Conference, Free Market: Bills with Pink Piggy Bank, Communism: Central Bank, Balanced: Yellow Dunking Bird Schematic, Industrialism: Final Frontier Factory, Environmentalism: Forest Path, Despotism: Gauntlet inside Head-Outline on Orange Background, Theocracy: my old Private Schools icon everyone copied (which is from Civ3 originally), Alien Worship: Elven Paladin with Yellow Vertical Beam, Ignorance: 2001 Monolith (which I almost used originally before going with the 3 Obelisk icon everyone copied), Neural Interface: my old Industrialism icon everyone copied (imposing male human head with yellow eyes), Shamanism: my old Herbalism icon everyone copied (rainforest pond glen), Herbalism: my old Subsidized Care icon everyone copied (mortar and pestel set on a desk).

Some of these icons came from RoM. Please note that, in cases where they do come from other mods and weren't culled from icon packs, I am not trying to take credit for the icons themselves, just this new usage thereof. The full-moon icon for Atheism was new in MongooseMod 3.4 (or possibly a little earlier, I'd have to check) and was hopefully self-credited in an earlier Historical Document post. Other MM-original icons I picked out and am still using years later (but that everyone copied without me ever getting credit, sigh) are Technocracy, and most of the Education and Healthcare civics; see my 2006 screenshot in the Download sticky that pre-dates their appearance in any other mod. Thanks.

... And yes I feel better now. Working on this recent civic update brought back strong old feelings of "grr", so I vented a bit.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:20 PM   #12
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Ok. Trying to catch up as I have finished the African map now...

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Originally Posted by LunarMongoose View Post
I decided I REALLY didn't want to move Forest Chopping up, so I found an alternate (and cooler) solution: I added a new Cottage version that can be built inside Forests but doesn't upgrade. I'm pretty sure it'll work even better as an inland commerce solution, cuz it's available even sooner than Advanced Tools, and can also be put in Jungles. Just chop down the trees and build a normal Cottage later to get the upgrades. (Oh, and I went ahead and moved the normal Cottage to Pottery like you suggested, but I transferred a point of commerce from the Hamlet-Town improvements to the Monarchy tech so they're still connected to it.)
I like this idea very much. This is the better solution than just moving Cottage building and Forest chopping abilities to earlier techs, like we did it in our group.
These Prehistoric cottages should not expire like outposts and lumberyards, though. This would make them too weak. It's a sufficient handicap that they do not upgrade, and need to be replaced by "real" cottages to get the upgrades.

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Old Jan 21, 2012, 04:54 PM   #13
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Alright, the bad news is it may take a little longer than I was expecting to finish this update. The good news is the reason why: I'm actually going to expand the Prehistoric Era a little, and also finally go ahead with a bit of a civic overhaul I've been wanting to do for ages.
It should be ok to expand the prehistoric area a little, but I recommend to focus on A LITTLE.
Because any new tech in the tech tree makes the game last longer, and I guess most players out there do not like those everlasting games. Same with buildings and so on. I have seen a mod, in which most buildings reward only with +5% or +10% of something, and you end up with dozens of buildings, each of them rewarding you with a marginal bonus only.
Whereas for example new terrain types are a way of making a game better without making it last longer.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 05:07 PM   #14
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This looks good! Well done!
I guess that these sub-civics require certain techs to be used, at least two out of three. Can they then be applied to any main civic or just to some?
I mean, can I apply any "stance" to any legal civic, any "workforce" to any labor civic and any "focus" to any labor civic?
Is there a singular effect then for any combination?

I think a singular effect would be good to increase the depth of the whole game, because you would need two techs then to be able to choose a certain combination, i.e. to get a certain effect.

And lastly, can you try to find a nicer icon for "Neural interface". This one looks a bit like a bison with a human face.

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Old Jan 21, 2012, 06:19 PM   #15
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These Prehistoric cottages should not expire like outposts and lumberyards, though. This would make them too weak. It's a sufficient handicap that they do not upgrade, and need to be replaced by "real" cottages to get the upgrades.
I agree, and I did not set them to expire when I put them in, so don't worry.

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It should be ok to expand the prehistoric area a little, but I recommend to focus on A LITTLE.
It's 3 new units (the Atlatl b/c that's a really important unit historically, and 2 birds b/c birds are awesome), 3 new techs (which are all related to the new units, and to delaying the Slinger a little), and 2 new wonders (the remaining ones from Stone Age Mod, which I've done a really good job incorporating into MM I think). The birds and bird tech are optional, just like dogs. I'll post a screenshot later if I have time.

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Because any new tech in the tech tree makes the game last longer, and I guess most players out there do not like those everlasting games. Same with buildings and so on.
Yep I'm not keen on adding normal buildings very much, and MM has only a few more than vanilla as a result (compared to other categories of objects where I've added tons of stuff).

As for slowing the game down though, you made the recommendation earlier that I increase all Prehistoric Era tech costs by 50% lol, so which is it?

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I have seen a mod, in which most buildings reward only with +5% or +10% of something, and you end up with dozens of buildings, each of them rewarding you with a marginal bonus only.
Whereas for example new terrain types are a way of making a game better without making it last longer.
Yep! Totally, totally, TOTALLY agreed. Basically what happened was people wanted a full in-depth historical simulation but only had the base Civ4 gameplay mechanics to work with. Those mechanics can be extended and expanded to a certain degree, which is what I've tried to do in MM, but with those other mods the authors just added every historically-semi-relevant thing they could think of, and to bridge the gap they started re-using the same mechanics for multiple things by dividing up the same effects into smaller pieces (5% here, 10% there, etc).

One of my core underlying design philosophy approaches has ALWAYS been to never over-extend my available gameplay tools. I've held back on adding units and wonders a number of times already in the past b/c of this. Occasionally I add new mechanics myself so I can get around this problem, which is how Golden Dawn, Trafalgar Square, Himeji Castle and Machu Picchu came into being in the mod, but yeah.

And I'm actually stretching things a little with all my new civics haha, but I think I've got it under control and they're all sufficiently unique.

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This looks good! Well done!
I guess that these sub-civics require certain techs to be used, at least two out of three. Can they then be applied to any main civic or just to some?
I mean, can I apply any "stance" to any legal civic, any "workforce" to any labor civic and any "focus" to any labor civic?
Is there a singular effect then for any combination?
They're not as fancy as they may look at first glance: they're just 3 extra normal full-size categories, that are shown in the window in the same space as existing categories. But functionally they're completely seperate and normal.

One of the "heavy-lifting programming projects" I mentioned a few times before that I want to do (but which has no hope of making it into this current update), is allow civics to require or exclude other civics. It's really easy to implement, but EXTREMELY hard to teach AIs how to use completely correctly. Fuyu already worked on this problem extensively a year ago, so don't take it lightly.

If and when I eventually get this working, there will be conditions like "Theology cannot be used with Atheism", and "Pacifism cannot be used with Military Schools".

But I had a longstanding problem with, in particular, Pacifism and Environmentalism being where they were, b/c those aren't religion and economy SYSTEMS; they're religion and economy focuses / emphases / directions. You can have a pacifist country that has organized religion or free religion or anything else; and you can have a country that uses a free market system, or communism, or anything else, and which is extremely-environmentally-friendly at the same time. That had always REALLY bothered me. Just saying.

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And lastly, can you try to find a nicer icon for "Neural interface". This one looks a bit like a bison with a human face.
Nooooo! I like it for this a lot! Don't judge til you see the full-size version. It's an intimidating male human face (who looks like a soot-covered battle monk if you ask me) with yellow eyes, which is the whole key to the civic... The idea is you plug a computer into a person's brain and just download all the educational knowledge and experience they need.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 04:59 PM   #16
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Hi!

just some more input from playing:

1. The random event "Fire" leaves the tile without forest. Wouldn't it be more realistic to change it into burnt forest?

2. If possible, can you update all terrain and features descriptions in the Sevopedia? For example, the effects of Floodplains on plains are not mentioned. They add less food than floodplains on deserts. And hills are described as "cannot build cities" but it's possible. And I think there are some more mistakes in there.

3. In the tech-tree, enabling of resources is not mentioned. Can it be added? For example, fish requires pottery to get the +1 health, but this can only be found in the description of "fish" in the Sevopedia.

4. How about new features (terreain types): Dry savanna and wet savanna? I am not sure about the effects that these should have, though.

5. And lastly, some philosophising :
how about a new terrain type "high plateau" or "high plain"? I am aware that this would probably require several weeks or months 24/7 to be implemented into the game, if it's possible at all. I have no idea about the mechanics/algorithms of Civ 4 so I can't judge about that.
I got this idea when I was creating the map of Africa, because most of the South of Africa is located on a high altitude. High plateaus would then have a cooler climate than the other tiles on the same altitude, and could also affect roads/trade network for example.
But most of all it would improve the visual appearance of the game.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 01:36 AM   #17
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Quick update on the update: Still making good progress, though I got slowed down watching tennis the last 2 weeks (and golf the last 4 days, though it was mostly on at the same time as the Australian Open, heh).

Probably still 2 weeks away, but this time when I say that it's a relatively firm estimate, lol. (It's easier to be accurate the closer you get. )

I actually felt like this was a really important, substantive, and high-quality update 2 weeks ago, but it just keeps getting better... Sorry for how long it's taking, but I'm working as fast as I can, and I promise it'll be worth the wait.

Btw I also updated the Change Log sticky again with the current list of patch notes, if you're interested. (Entries from Jan 7 and onward are new.)

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1. The random event "Fire" leaves the tile without forest. Wouldn't it be more realistic to change it into burnt forest?
It only leaves it without Forest if the Forest was on a hill. This is b/c Burnt Forest and Scrub both have graphical glitch issues when used on hills, so I disabled them from spawning on hills when I first put them in the mod. (They're not in the LSystem, so the trees / cacti / etc near the edges don't drop down to fit the hill shape and appear to be floating in the air as a result, which I found very annoying. I wonder if I could add them to the LSystem though with my current understanding of it, hrm...)

A Fire event on a flatland Forest does indeed convert it to Burnt Forest. (At least that's what I told it to do in the code a while back, so it's a bug if THAT's not working.)

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Originally Posted by Rakete4 View Post
2. If possible, can you update all terrain and features descriptions in the Sevopedia? For example, the effects of Floodplains on plains are not mentioned. They add less food than floodplains on deserts. And hills are described as "cannot build cities" but it's possible. And I think there are some more mistakes in there.
Uhh... Hills are listed as "cannot build cities"? That's weird, I don't remember them being that way... I'll have to take a look.

But yes good point on P-FPs, I should definitely add a text note about their effect on Plains.

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3. In the tech-tree, enabling of resources is not mentioned. Can it be added? For example, fish requires pottery to get the +1 health, but this can only be found in the description of "fish" in the Sevopedia.
I believe you're referring to the "city trade" requirement that allows resources to be shared with other connected cities... If I remember correctly the city that is harvesting the fish will still get the +1 health effect, it just can't share it til they have clay jars to transport them in.

Anyway, great idea! I've already added several things to the tech mouseovers, so this will make an excellent addition.

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4. How about new features (terreain types): Dry savanna and wet savanna? I am not sure about the effects that these should have, though.

5. And lastly, some philosophising :
how about a new terrain type "high plateau" or "high plain"? I am aware that this would probably require several weeks or months 24/7 to be implemented into the game, if it's possible at all. I have no idea about the mechanics/algorithms of Civ 4 so I can't judge about that.
Not likely. I don't have any available graphics for new terrain types (and specifically I don't think there are any others in Sezereth's high-res FFH terrain graphics I'm using, which I would want to keep using for consistency probably, though theoretically I could mix in some from other sources like vanilla...).

More importantly though, I'm already at the limit of what I can do in terms of different gameplay effects from different terrain types. "Food, hammers, and commerce" is a pretty limited selection of tools to work with, heh. I'll keep these ideas in mind in the future, but it's absolutely not gonna be in this update.

As far as the work required to add them though, it's actually not that bad. You just have to go through and set Animal Native values for the new terrains and features, update any units and promotions that are supposed to get terrain / feature bonuses, update where existing features can spawn on new terrain (if any), and, most significantly, update how PerfectMongoose MME places the new terrains and features, heh. (Though any new terrain types will not be used by the standard / default mapscripts without updating those as well, whereas I think they WILL use new feature types like Marsh, albeit randomly. I'd have to double-check that though.)
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:14 AM   #18
fallen_addict
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Hi Mongoose, just chiming in to say I still play your mod and am super excited about 3.7. Those new 'sub civics' look interesting and of all the mods I've played, never seen anything like that before. Thank you for your dedication and persistence with this mod!
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 05:49 PM   #19
Rakete4
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I have briefly gone through the changelog. Wow, great work so far! I couldn't even finish reading, because it's so much...need to go to bed. Most of it reads reasonable fromm my experience!
Good idea to reduce culture on many early wonders and library, and to increase it for some later wonders. This will make cultural victory harder and still gives you a chance for a cultural victory when you have missed some early wonders.
The changes in build-points for some wonders are reasonable as well, from my experience. Strong wonders more BP, weak wonders less BP

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I believe you're referring to the "city trade" requirement that allows resources to be shared with other connected cities... If I remember correctly the city that is harvesting the fish will still get the +1 health effect, it just can't share it til they have clay jars to transport them in.

Anyway, great idea! I've already added several things to the tech mouseovers, so this will make an excellent addition.
The +1 bonus from fish, shrimp and crabs definitely gets only available when pottery has been researched. This has nothing to do with the trade network. The health bonus is not available in any city. I often had research improved fishing quite ealry and created fishing boats. But I never got the health bonus before I invented Pottery.
Not sure if this makes sense in terms of real history, but it should at least be mentioned in the in-game tech-tree (or mouseover, I think we refer to the same). It's only mentioned in the Sevopedia. This "enabling" of resources is also required for some more resources as far as I remember, for example Uranium. Please make sure that this is documented properly in both Sevopedia and in-game tech-tree.

Got to go now!

Last edited by Rakete4; Feb 09, 2012 at 07:07 AM.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 10:25 PM   #20
LunarMongoose
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Time for yet another update on the update: slow and steady progress. Given the amount of hours I'm putting in, and the quality of work that's coming out, I really should be getting paid for this... just saying.

I've updated the Change Log sticky again; patch notes from Jan 31 and onward are new. (Btw the post got too long, so I had to chop off the April-Dec 2011 entries to make room for these newest ones, lol.)

Highlights: Resource enabling clearly shown in the tech tree in two different ways, several important AI bugfixes having to do with some MM-specific features, AIR RECON UNITS have gotten a BIG BOOST in several ways, Serfdom bugfix plus work rate boosts displaying "correctly" now, the Tsukiji effect I'd been meaning to add for like 2 years now and never got around to doing (woohoo!), and the mystery of why different techs with the same costs often had different turns-to-complete is FINALLY solved! (Okay I more-or-less knew "why" that was happening all along, but now it very clearly explains it to the player, in a useful way that lets you plan your research more intelligently.)

And that's just in the last week! See the updated patch notes for details hehe.

Official ETA to completion is now 7 to 10 days, assuming limited real-life distractions, and assuming I have the energy to keep working 8-16 hours a day on it most days.

(Another way of putting that, is that my internal to-do list has 16 distinct items left after I finish a couple things I'm working on right now. (That's down from 35 distinct items two weeks ago.) Some are quick and easy, and some aren't. I've been averaging 1-3 items checked off per day, so I figure 7-10 more days is about right. My predictions are almost never accurate though, so cross your feathers. Version 3.7 gets more awesome every day, and I'm dying to get it out to you all, but I'm going to finish everything I want to do, darnit.)

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Originally Posted by Rakete4 View Post
The +1 bonus from fish, shrimp and crabs definitely gets only available when pottery has been researched. This has nothing to do with the trade network. The health bonus is not available in any city. I often had research improved fishing quite ealry and created fishing boats. But I never got the health bonus before I invented Pottery.

Not sure if this makes sence in terms of real history, but it should at least be mentioned in the in-game tech-tree (or mouseover, I think we refer to the same). It's only mentioned in the Sevopedia. This "enabling" of resources is also required for some more resources as far as I remember, for example Uranium. Please make sure that this is documented properly in both Sevopedia and in-game tech-tree.
Yep, you're right, it has nothing to do with the trade network afterall. (Sorry!) I'm not changing the enabling setup in this version (except for moving Aluminum), but it is fully documented (and then some) in the in-game tech tree now. Thanks for prompting me to do this; it's a really nice addition.
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<-- BBAI/UP Contributor, Original BTS Sevopedia and PW3 Civ4 Port Author
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