[BTS] SGOTM 14 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

One more turn and that settler will be done in Boston, then we can revolt to Representation

Please also switch to Organized Religion as well as Representation so we can build Missionaries without Monasteries.

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

I think I'll swap one of those scientists in Not Kansas for an engineer to up output a little, but mainly to bias the GP points towards an engineer, thinking that a bulb of machinery might be helpful. I'll try to add the scientist back when putting on a third specialist is possible, but I'm not sure how many turns that will actually happen. To the extent I can do that, the next GP will be accelerated.

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

The WB currently building in Phil will explore NW before returning to become clam nets. Archer near hub will do circuit of central mountains as much as shadowing barb axe allows, if possible after that investigating arm to the north. WB in east will continue exploring the coast.

Agree.
You also have an Axe coming out of Not Kansas that could go scouting around that redoubt, if necessary?

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

I'll grow cities except where using whip as noted above, and pile on specialists to prevent cities growing to red faces. Will use scientists as preferred specialist except in Not Kansas as noted above.

Concur.

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

Settlers:
One next turn in Boston, others can be produced in:
Not Kansas (is the whip really needed here? It's not many turns off, or are we in that much of a hurry? Maybe we should let is recover some happy faces and grow?)
New York (with a chop where the worker is currently standing - when the chop completes, put it to settler, and finish settler before returning to Moai)
Washington - can use the whip after the forge
Once this fourth settler is whipped in Washington, we might be free to revolt to Caste and OR, yes? When would be best to convert to Tao? Just before the revolt to OR?
Not sure where is best for the existing Tao missionary - New York or Not Kansas?

I think we are in a bit of a hurry to get cities established and productive so have options of war or...?

5th Settler for the culture bridge city, let's see what is found up north?

Doesn't do us much good to revolt to Taoism unless we have converted more cities? Why antagonize the AI any more than they are?

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

Thinking Moai might actually be a good idea where it has been started in NY. With stone, it's only 125 hammers, and there are nine sea tiles there - if we finish up using quite a few of those, it will really become a good production city and pay back the hammers easily, especially once we build a forge there for example.

This is fine with me.

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

I thought I'd settle:
first settler on northern silk in the NW
second settler in north 1S of dye
third settler in north 1S of silver
fourth settler on the arm between the sheep and the copper (so horse is in fat cross) Edit: On second thoughts it would be better 1 S of sheep to allow ships to go through the arm - just like leif's map

If a passage exists in the NW without culture bridge, still think we should consider settling on the grass hill under the warrior. Great second GP Farm, in fact, with forests to chop the Great Library and enough hills to produce National Epic, if we want?

Others are fine. 1 south of sheep is the way to go.

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

There are several chops around the silk city site, and the pig/silver city site. Should these be used building workboats and buildings?

What about the Great Library? We were talking about that at one stage - do we want to save some forest for that? Where?

Please see above. Still think that grass hil is best, again, as long as we have passage to the NW.

Problem may be finding time to tech Aesthetics and Lit., unless we can find a trade for Aesthetics?

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

We might need more workers? Four new cities will require an expansion of the work force I think? Comments?

Yes, think you will need more Workers. We currently have 7 with 5 cities. With 4 more cities, will probably need about 4 or 5 more, especially if we can trade for Calendar. Please keep an eye out for it.

[Mad Professor]

Originally Posted by leif erikson

Please also switch to Organized Religion as well as Representation so we can build Missionaries without Monasteries.

Mmm. OK - that missionaries without monasteries works without a state religion right? Normally the religion civics only apply to cities with your state religion in them...

Originally Posted by leif erikson

You also have an Axe coming out of Not Kansas that could go scouting around that redoubt, if necessary?

Yes - I'll have to keep an eye on happies in a couple of cities with no garrison, and might have to use a unit for such purposes, but it shouldn't be a problem. We have some fogbusting warriors around who won't need to fogbust much longer who might be able to do the garrison work.

Originally Posted by leif erikson

I think we are in a bit of a hurry to get cities established and productive so have options of war or...?

Right, but in the case of Not Kansas it will save only about three turns for producing the settler, and put Not Kansas back quite a few turns regrowing the population. I haven't done the maths though...

Originally Posted by leif erikson

If a passage exists in the NW without culture bridge, still think we should consider settling on the grass hill under the warrior. Great second GP Farm, in fact, with forests to chop the Great Library and enough hills to produce National Epic, if we want?

We'll need to decide where to settle that city before the workboat does its exploring to the NW. I guess though if that coast we can see does not lead to another arm with an AI on it, then a culture bridge won't reach that far either? That is, if that coast we can see is just on an island in between arms and is not a bridge, then a culture bridge won't make the distance either.

That being said, maybe your preferred spot is actually better since settling a city on the silk won't actually help?

Originally Posted by leif erikson

Yes, think you will need more Workers. We currently have 7 with 5 cities. With 4 more cities, will probably need about 4 or 5 more, especially if we can trade for Calendar. Please keep an eye out for it.

Uh huh - I can see some conflicts coming here - build settlers and workers, using the whip as necessary AND grow cities. I'll have to see if miracles are on the list for this weekend or not...

[Cactus Pete]

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

Settlers:
One next turn in Boston, others can be produced in:
Not Kansas (is the whip really needed here? It's not many turns off, or are we in that much of a hurry? Maybe we should let is recover some happy faces and grow?) I'm fine with producing the next settler without the whip, in part because that will allow us to whip a worker or settler in NK not so long afterwards and still run specialists.
New York (with a chop where the worker is currently standing - when the chop completes, put it to settler, and finish settler before returning to Moai)
Thinking Moai might actually be a good idea where it has been started in NY. With stone, it's only 125 hammers, and there are nine sea tiles there - if we finish up using quite a few of those, it will really become a good production city and pay back the hammers easily, especially once we build a forge there for example. If you do continue with Maoi, consider building other things there and putting whip overflow into Maoi until we're in Caste. The city has few hammers but decent food and a granary, so that's it's best means of production.

I thought I'd settle:
first settler on northern silk in the NW Not on silk.

There are several chops around the silk city site, and the pig/silver city site. Should these be used building workboats and buildings? Whatever gets the cities growing and productive quickest. We can worry about the GLIB later.

We might need more workers? Four new cities will require an expansion of the work force I think? Comments?

Yes, but taking advantage of Representation and growing cites is also important.

[Cactus Pete]

Miracles are unnecessary. Just manage the trade-offs brilliantly.

"Mmm. OK - that missionaries without monasteries works without a state religion right? Normally the religion civics only apply to cities with your state religion in them..." State religion not necessary in Vanilla, but not so sure for BtS. Just have the religion in the city and OR to build a missionary.

[Mad Professor]

I think I'm getting the picture for the next few turns at least. I'm thinking I'll be able to play a few turns in about 21 hours from this post. Meanwhile I'll play with some test saves a bit and try some worker/settler/whipping/chopping/overflow kind of combinations and see if I can get together an efficient way of doing all that... (I don't have to have the date right or the neighbours, etc., in the test save for that!)

And of course when I play I'll follow suggestions here, and let you know before I start playing. Meanwhile other comments will be carefully considered.

[The-Hawk]

Not much to add from me. I am OK with continuing Moia, but as CP suggested, would whip into it. The city needs to help our REXing/conquest activities.

[Mad Professor]

I'm about ready to play a few turns. I'll post a report here later when I call a halt.

[Mad Professor]

I’m still up to my economy trashing tricks… It’s now T101 (350BC) – I played about 8 turns so far. Three more cities have been settled, an extra worker produced, Taoism spread a little, along with a couple of other little things – oh – and the economy is trashed. Anyone with any suggestions?

Here’s my notes:

I open the file, it’s T92, 575BC

IBT: Boston finishes settler, starts forge

T93 550BC
Taoist missionary fails in NK!! Grrr! Not a good start
Revolt to Representation and OR

IBT: West put construction on the market, but they won’t trade because we have only CoL to give them and they won’t take the even deal
South also have construction and East have calendar but they don’t want to trade

T94 525BC
WB in east blocked by Indian culture, and no OB possible

IBT: Monty offers Construction for CoL (even beakers deal??!!!?) and of course I accept
Growing cities weighing on the economy – and we haven’t even settled any new cities yet

T95 500BC
Give polytheism to East to try and improve relations to get OB, but to no avail. The gift doesn’t even get a +1 relations – they must have already have just about finished studying it!

IBT: South founds kwaDukusa
Phil WB -> Granary
Colossus built in FAL (Aztec)
Monty and Gandhi both adopt Caste
Moses (prophet) born in FAL

T96 475BC
We found Atlanta
Barb culture seen to NW (West of Atlanta)
Interrupt forge to do Tao missionary in Boston (that failure was really annoying)

IBT: East found Bjorgvin
NK Settler -> Barracks

T97 450BC
Whip missionary for 2 in Boston, 29 overflow to forge
Whip settler for 1 in NY, 10 overflow to Moai
Barb axe spotted on arm on sheep

IBT: West founds Tlaxcala
East founds Bangalore
Mahabodhi built in FAL (Vikings – must have been the Vikings who gave birth to Moses?)

T98 425BC

IBT: Barb axe attacks our archer on copper hill and loses

T99 400BC
Tao spreads successfully in NY with missionary
Start Tao missionary in NY

IBT: Christianity founded IDL
East adopts OR

T100 375BC
We found Chicago
Whip wkr in Boston
South have currency and West have theology, but neither wants to trade

IBT: South founds Nongoma
NK Barracks -> Worker
Gandhi converts to Christianity

T101
We found Seattle
Economy trashed

Progress save below:
Dorothy progress T101 BC-0350.CivBeyondSwordSave

And since this is a turn 101 save, I think Htadus is allowed out of the penalty box now, is that right?

[Mad Professor]

Aha - I just found where my system has been hiding my BUFFY logs. Here's the one from the turns I just played:

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 92/500 (575 BC) [18-Sep-2011 14:32:09]
0% Research: 7 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 13 per turn, 5 in the bank

After End Turn:
Boston finishes: Settler

Turn 93/500 (550 BC) [18-Sep-2011 14:32:11]
Boston begins: Forge (14 turns)
0% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 0 per turn
100% Gold: 0 per turn, 18 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Dorothy(America) from 'Despotism' to 'Representation'
Civics Change: Dorothy(America) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 94/500 (525 BC) [18-Sep-2011 14:42:35]
Washington begins: Settler (9 turns)
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 8 per turn, 18 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Washington
Not Kansas finishes: Axeman
Washington grows to size 5
New York grows to size 3
Boston's borders expand
Philadelphia grows to size 2

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand) towards Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the North (Mongolia) towards Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the North (Mongolia) towards Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings) towards Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings) towards Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 95/500 (500 BC) [18-Sep-2011 14:51:25]
Diplomacy: Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec) offers to trade Construction to Dorothy (America) for Code of Laws
Diplomacy: Dorothy (America) accepts trade of Code of Laws to Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec) for Construction
Tech traded to Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec): Code of Laws
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Construction
A Pasture was built near Philadelphia
New York begins: Moai Statues (18 turns)
Tech traded to Good Witch of the East (India): Polytheism
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 7 per turn, 26 in the bank

After End Turn:
Philadelphia finishes: Work Boat

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand) towards Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec) towards Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the North (Mongolia) towards Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the North (Mongolia) towards Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings) towards Wicked Witch of the South (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings) towards Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the East (Vikings) towards Good Witch of the North (England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Good Witch of the South(Mali) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Civics Change: Wicked Witch of the West(Aztec) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'
Civics Change: Good Witch of the West(India) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 96/500 (475 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:03:33]
Philadelphia begins: Granary (60 turns)
Atlanta founded
Atlanta begins: Monument (15 turns)
Boston begins: Taoist Missionary (5 turns)
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 8 per turn, 33 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Not Kansas
Not Kansas finishes: Settler

Turn 97/500 (450 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:17:52]
Not Kansas begins: Barracks (4 turns)
100% Research: 54 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -34 per turn, 41 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in New York
The whip was applied in Boston
Washington grows to size 6
Taoism has spread: Washington
New York finishes: Settler
Boston grows to size 3
Boston finishes: Taoist Missionary

Turn 98/500 (425 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:27:23]
A Mine was built near Boston
Atlanta begins: Work Boat (15 turns)
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 3 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in New York
Boston grows to size 4
Philadelphia grows to size 3
Atlanta finishes: Monument

Other Player Actions:
Taoism has spread: Hastings (English Empire)
While defending in the wild near Philadelphia, Archer 2 (Washington) (2.43/3) defeats Barbarian Axeman (Prob Victory: 71.2%)
Attitude Change: Good Witch of the West (India) towards Good Witch of the North (England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Wicked Witch of the North(Mongolia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 99/500 (400 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:34:22]
A Farm was built near Boston
Taoism has spread: New York
New York begins: Taoist Missionary (8 turns)
Boston begins: Worker (5 turns)
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 8 per turn, 10 in the bank

After End Turn:
Not Kansas grows to size 7

Other Player Actions:
Christianity founded in a distant land
Attitude Change: Good Witch of the West (India) towards Good Witch of the North (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Good Witch of the North (England) towards Good Witch of the West (India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Wicked Witch of the East(Vikings) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'
Civics Change: Good Witch of the East(India) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 100/500 (375 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:41:54]
Chicago founded
Chicago begins: Work Boat (30 turns)
0% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 3 per turn, 18 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Boston
Not Kansas finishes: Barracks
New York grows to size 3
Boston finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Good Witch of the West (India) from 'no State Religion' to 'Christianity'
Attitude Change: Wicked Witch of the West (Aztec) towards Good Witch of the South (Mali), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Attitude Change: Good Witch of the West (India) towards Good Witch of the North (England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Good Witch of the North (England) towards Good Witch of the West (India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 101/500 (350 BC) [18-Sep-2011 15:49:47]
Not Kansas begins: Worker (4 turns)
Seattle founded
Seattle begins: Monument (30 turns)

[neilmeister]

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

And since this is a turn 101 save, I think Htadus is allowed out of the penalty box now, is that right?

Yes, that is correct.

Can you upload your save to the server to make it official.

[leif erikson]

Uploaded the save to the server.

edit: Neil, I assume you will do the honors and notify Htadus?

Here is the log:

Spoiler:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 575 BC to 350 BC:

Turn 92, 575 BC: Taoism has been founded in Boston!
Turn 92, 575 BC: You have discovered Philosophy!

Turn 93, 550 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 93, 550 BC: Dorothy adopts Representation!
Turn 93, 550 BC: Dorothy adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 93, 550 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 94, 525 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Not Kansas. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 94, 525 BC: The borders of Boston have expanded!

Turn 95, 500 BC: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 95, 500 BC: Good Witch of the South adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 95, 500 BC: Wicked Witch of the West adopts Caste System!
Turn 95, 500 BC: The Colossus has been built in a far away land!
Turn 95, 500 BC: Good Witch of the West adopts Caste System!
Turn 95, 500 BC: Moses (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 96, 475 BC: Atlanta has been founded.

Turn 97, 450 BC: Taoism has spread in Washington.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have trained a Settler in New York. Work has now begun on Moai Statues.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have trained Taoist Missionary in Boston. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 97, 450 BC: The Mahabodhi has been built in a far away land!

Turn 98, 425 BC: You have constructed a Monument in Atlanta. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Wicked Witch of the North adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman (5.00) vs Dorothy's Archer 2 (Washington) (5.25)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Combat Odds: 28.8%
Turn 98, 425 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 98, 425 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 98, 425 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Dorothy's Archer 2 (Washington) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Barbarian's Axeman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 98, 425 BC: Dorothy's Archer 2 (Washington) has defeated Barbarian's Axeman!

Turn 99, 400 BC: Boston has grown to size 4.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Philadelphia has grown to size 3.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Taoism has spread in New York.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Boston.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Not Kansas will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 99, 400 BC: Wicked Witch of the East adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 99, 400 BC: Good Witch of the East adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 100, 375 BC: Not Kansas has grown to size 7.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Boston can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 17ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Wicked Witch of the South has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Chicago has been founded.
Turn 100, 375 BC: New York will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 100, 375 BC: You have trained a Worker in Boston. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Mikhail Lomonosov (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 100, 375 BC: Wicked Witch of the South has founded Nongoma in a distant land.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Good Witch of the West converts to Christianity!

Turn 101, 350 BC: New York has grown to size 3.
Turn 101, 350 BC: New York can hurry Taoist Missionary for 1⇴ with 5ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Seattle has been founded.

Here is the link to the save.

Now, off to have a look.

[leif erikson]

Nice work on the rex MP.

Looks a bit like the US economy atm.

Time for a lesson in revitalization. Be scary to build the Copper City right now.
We need Currency and Calendar soon to unlock the potential in all our resources. And the Workers to improve the tiles.

Nice to see the passage the NW, wish we could afford to grab that Barb City to give us a foothold over there.

Tough luck with Missionaries?
What was that all about?
Should have done a better haka, I guess?

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by neilmeister

Yes, that is correct.

Can you upload your save to the server to make it official.

I will take this and the official save as valid indicaters for me to get involved.
Thanks for getting me back as soon as possible MP and all. @ Hawk, yes about the "bit"

Great Job with The Mids CP and too bad the luck did not last long enough for the GLH. No big deal, we roll with it. While I am at it, too bad the team chose to place that city to share the food with NY and skip the opportunity to have a bridge city. By the time that city is ready to use all the food, I hope the game is over.

NY is a great production city with that food and will need it to grow for a long time. So when do we intend to let the GP farm use it? Too late now.

Since we took the MC route and I never considered it, and the city placement speak volumes of a space race game, can someone give an idea of what are our current objectives are?

BTW, Please build the grainary as the first build in any city with the aid of 2 chops when available. The city will grow at an amazing rate while working food times. Forget about things we need later. When possible also build support units such as WB and MP units from mature cities. In order to get the GP farms ready soon as possible, we need to get them to size 7 minimum where there are 2 6f tiles are available and get the religion spread there. The religion will give the needed expansion.

Just for planing purpose, if we so choose, 3 cities running state religion, pacifism, casts system, and 5 specialist will yield 5*3(1+1+1)=45 gpp per turn and if we are in a GA, then gets us 60 gpp. So as you can see the 3 cities can get us to Astro at a rather fast rate. So we do have many options and I still think Astro should be part of it.

Also we should get 2-3 swords by that Barb city and wait for the near by witches to show up. We should be able to pick it up for a minimum

[Htadus]

Some answere toi a few questions that you were asking earlier.

CP, the power shown on Demo screen is for each individual AI and not team.

So to have 1/2 power, at the very least we need to have the same rating as the most powerful AI. Having average rate may be OK if the most powerful Ai is not paired with an average AI.

Either Asoka or his part has Toku personality, not both. The gifts and trades are not considered to be for both AI's. Yes they both benefit but only the AI you gift/trade get diplomatic relations. So MP giving a gift to one AI and not getting anything could mean 2 things. Either that AI is not Toku an/or the value of the gift is not good enough to get the modifier.

MP, we are running a SE so 0% science is OK. We just need to get to black. Since we do not have currency and TGLH, we are indeed in crappy shape. It is shocking how much a puny 1gpt does to the economy and that ability to sell techs. That is why currency come before CS on higher levels.

Also for to reiterate what I said during the last SG and in here earlier, the Ai will not trade construction (including Mansa some times ) untill very late as well as HBR. So lets plan better.

[Cactus Pete]

Due to deeply buried fiber optic cable being accidentally cut, I and the majority of folks in this part of the state have been without internet for the last 28 hours. Try to look at save in the morning. (RL is going to be extremely demanding the next ten days. Will contribute when I can.)

Looked at save . . . thoughts:

Need to mine grass hill SE of Phily, as it will be accessible to both cities.

Put Phily citizen on clams instead of sugar this turn.

Do not need to build a monument in Seattle, as we will be in Caste and able to run an artist before monument is completed and ten turns have passed. Suggest switch to granary. Other city builds seem fine.

Why did wkbt not continue to explore India? There's likely another civ to the south and you didn't open up a trade route. Did you encounter a barb galley?

If you bring two NE warriors into culture, it will give us 1gpt.

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

......

T93 550BC
Taoist missionary fails in NK!! Grrr! Not a good startThis happens and NK had a religion. So we try again
Revolt to Representation and OR Awsome, lets use OR as much as possible to get religion spread, It is expensive to run.

IBT: West put construction on the market, but they won’t trade because we have only CoL to give them and they won’t take the even deal
South also have construction and East have calendar but they don’t want to trade
Think They are building the MM already?

T94 525BC
WB in east blocked by Indian culture, and no OB possibleThat Toku again. We need to take one of them out, hopefully real Toku.

IBT: Monty offers Construction for CoL (even beakers deal??!!!?) and of course I accept
Growing cities weighing on the economy – and we haven’t even settled any new cities yet
This I did not see before. So this is likely Gandhi or Zara. These are the only two that I have traded this early in the game. Awsome

T95 500BC
Give polytheism to East to try and improve relations to get OB, but to no avail. The gift doesn’t even get a +1 relations – they must have already have just about finished studying it!

IBT: South founds kwaDukusa
Phil WB -> Granary
Colossus built in FAL (Aztec)That is crazy? How long did they have MC?

So it may be time for us to plan the first war, after Astro. Someone is going the culture route already it seem.

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

Why did wkbt not continue to explore India? There's likely another civ to the south and you didn't open up a trade route. Did you encounter a barb galley?OB not available to explore south

If you bring two NE warriors into culture, it will give us 1gpt.

Good catch.

[Mad Professor]

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

Do not need to build a monument in Seattle, as we will be in Caste and able to run an artist before monument is completed and ten turns have passed. Suggest switch to granary. Other city builds seem fine.

I agree. I put the monument in there more as place holder than anything - I just settled before saving and posting - nothing has actually happened there yet.

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

Why did wkbt not continue to explore India? There's likely another civ to the south and you didn't open up a trade route. Did you encounter a barb galley?

Asoke refused to open borders, even after I bribed him with the gift of Polytheism.

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

If you bring two NE warriors into culture, it will give us 1gpt.

Yes - I was also heading that axe down the arm to help the archer uncover some black, but of course that costs us maintenance as well.

Economy wise, the worst is before we get to currency, and especially if we get increased maintenance as cities grow - there's a couple of cities really growing fast now - which is what we want except that the maintenance will increase.

With Caste, we could use some merchants if necessary to save the piggy bank emptying.

I was planning to use the whip on the settler queued in Washington and we might want to use the whip on an other worker or two, but after that we can revolt to caste ASAP, yes?

[leif erikson]

OK, finally got a chance to look around a bit.
How many more Workers do we need before we change to Caste? A couple?

Think the economy will somewhat heal itself as we grow. I'd be careful about whipping away citizens working commerce tiles.

Agree with Htadus, would like to get some Swords (2 maybe) to the NW to be in position to take the Barb City, if we can scrounge up enough Gold to support it.
For this to happen, should look at building a fort south of the Sheep near Philly to allow passage of ships through the arm.

Despite MP's attempt to spread Taoism, we have it in only 3 cities thus far, 5 to go.
How many cities need Taoism before we adopt it?

The only Library we have built is in NK. Should we build them in Atlanta and Philly too?

@Htadus, we traded MC to Aztecs on turn 81. Please see CP's turn log:

T81:
Meet North
Trade MC for Mono and Monarch with West

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by leif erikson

Think the economy will somewhat heal itself as we grow. I'd be careful about whipping away citizens working commerce tiles.
When possible we can use a coast/lake tile with new pop and that will help
....

Despite MP's attempt to spread Taoism, we have it in only 3 cities thus far, 5 to go.
How many cities need Taoism before we adopt it?It is my recallection that the adopted religion does self spread too

The only Library we have built is in NK. Should we build them in Atlanta and Philly too?As long as it does not slow the growth of the city, why not?

@Htadus, we traded MC to Aztecs on turn 81. Please see CP's turn log:

T81:
Meet North
Trade MC for Mono and Monarch with West

Actually it was a sort of OMG how fast did they built it kind of a statement. I did read it. But then again it is the colossus and with copper! not many turns needed.

However that brings to the point of trading. I propose that we trade with only one group if possible. That way there will be only one advanced group. Also I think we need the mongers in the team to speak about potentially attacking with cats and swords the nearest AI.

Also want to add that something odd happened during my tests and war. The diplo penelty was pretty bad after the second DoW by me. They all became annoyed. I am not sure if it was the test game and I did many things wrong, or if we get double negetives for each dow. I no longer have the save. I will see to do a test this weekend.