[BTS] SGOTM 14 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Looking at the map, excellent job MP.

Agree that we need to come to grips with Shaka very soon. I think the best news here is that Cannons are two turns away and Walls and Castles do not affect their performance. That should make siege go faster.

Suggest we change civics to Police State, Vassalage, Slavery and Free Religion and focus on taking Lahore and Roskilde soon and build a canal fort near Roskilde for passage into Zulu waters. While we are working on all this, we can begin creating an Army of Grens, Cuirassier and Cannon to head for Zulu. Can't forget our friend Raggie either. A lot to do.

During my set, I changed espionage allocation and we can see the graphs for the Zulu, Malinese and Mongols. Our power is ahead of their combined power as a team.

[Htadus]

I am glad that you set espi lief.

After reading posts and looking at the save, this is the situation.

• We can win with just killing all but 2 AI.
• We can kill Asoka, Ragnar and Kahn very fast.
• Zulu will take some time So let them be for a short while.
• We do not want enemy to our back.

So based on that, this is what I think we should do during my turn set.

1. Make the civic change leif stated.
2. Kill Asoka.
3. Go full bore on Ragnar untill he is gone.
4. Shift forces to Mongolia and blitz.
5. Gather forces and navy units to a massive invation from Monglia to Gandhi and Monti. I bet they are going for culture.

Please comment. I will post a plan within 24 hrs. Sorry we have family over but I will move the game along. I will play at least 15 turns.

[Mad Professor]

Originally Posted by Htadus

Make the civic change leif stated.

I agree wholeheartedly with the civic change leif proposed also.

Originally Posted by Htadus

Kill Asoka.

Yes, it's just one city (though it will take a bit of a seige) and I think it should result in a few less unhappies because more of our WW will be from Asoka than Raggie I think?

Originally Posted by Htadus

Go full bore on Ragnar untill he is gone.

Yes - look at ways of hitting him in several places, and see if it can be done very fast.

Originally Posted by Htadus

Shift forces to Mongolia and blitz.

Gather forces and navy units to a massive invation from Monglia to Gandhi and Monti. I bet they are going for culture.

So you suggest hitting Monty/Gandhi and not Mansa/Shaka at all?

In that case, we would want to begin positioning some troops for Mongolia now, including new builds, while finishing off Asoka and Raggie, and then while we're crunching Mongolia, the Asoka+Raggie troops would need to be heading for Gandhi/Monty territory.

Is there a particular reason why you choose to take out Gandhi/Monty instead of Mansa/Shaka? Certainly Shaka is the most powerful in the game after us, but are there other reasons? I'm open to the idea - just wondering if there was a particular reason which made you choose that way over going at Shaka and Mansa.

Originally Posted by Htadus

Please comment. I will post a plan within 24 hrs. Sorry we have family over but I will move the game along. I will play at least 15 turns.

If you have the time

[Htadus]

MP, who need sleep? Just kidding.

MP, I think we can hit Zulu for the last bit of land we need by attacking from all side but mainly in the hub, razing cities and founding new cities for quick expansion.

This way our assets will be better used to kill easier civs for their land.

[Cactus Pete]

Are you suggesting we leave Shaka alone because we will have to move forces to Mongolia anyway, and they will be better positioned to go after Gandhi from there, or do you have other reasons? Not opposed to doing this, just want to understand why. Otherwise, plan makes sense.

[leif erikson]

If we are planning to go Asoka, Raggie and then Genghis, our assets will be positioned to go after Gandhi next. As long as you are sure that there is enough land there as Shaka is quite large. I can see pruning some of Shaka to finish. Hope his tech doesn't outpace us too much?

Suggest you put some Espionage points against Montie/Gandhi. We only need about 30 - 35 points to see their graphs.

We will need Workers as we have more canals to build.

I'm fine with the plan, would also like to hear a bit more about Gandhi/Montie instead of Shaka/Mansa?

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

Are you suggesting we leave Shaka alone because we will have to move forces to Mongolia anyway, and they will be better positioned to go after Gandhi from there, or do you have other reasons? Not opposed to doing this, just want to understand why. Otherwise, plan makes sense.

You have identified the logistics reason. There is also a strategic side. We will be able to over power the culture duo (and get the GLH) faster and not get bogged down. Then once we have those lands, we should be able to focus all our forces to the hub. Rifles should be the highest we meet against zulu but if they get infantry, then the calvary should be able to snack on them.

Originally Posted by leif erikson

If we are planning to go Asoka, Raggie and then Genghis, our assets will be positioned to go after Gandhi next. As long as you are sure that there is enough land there as Shaka is quite large. I can see pruning some of Shaka to finish. Hope his tech doesn't outpace us too much?I am sure once they loose their trading partners in Monti and Gandhi, their tech rate might not continue.

Suggest you put some Espionage points against Montie/Gandhi. We only need about 30 - 35 points to see their graphs.Sounds like a plan

We will need Workers as we have more canals to build.

I'm fine with the plan, would also like to hear a bit more about Gandhi/Montie instead of Shaka/Mansa?

See above. I think Gandhi is the real thing and Monti is another culture nut, may be the real asoka.

Mansa is for sure Elizabeth. So he too is a valid target. I can not get who Zulu is. Friendly expansionist? Augustus, Fred? Any ideas?

[The-Hawk]

Plan looks good to me. Slavery is a must, might as well convert unhappies to units or CHs. All they are doing is creating a civics cost drain on us.

I think the decision on attacking West or South should be based solely on where our military will be positioned after we kill GK and Rags. As it looks like Rags will be done before GK, I would think we would attack Gandhi next. I.e. while we are finishing GK, we move the Rags army into position.

Our privateer will not make it to Oz. We might need to think about sending a Frigate. If West gets to destroyers, it may be impossible to get an invasion fleet through their lands to Oz after we go to war with them. I would vote for killing Oz before we start on West. Maybe some units from the Rags war can take the southern route.

If we are lucky, Oz will only have rifles. If a strong unit was prepopulated there, it may be more of a challenge. Luckily, the city has no hammers, so it can't be building much of a stack.

Originally Posted by Htadus

I think Gandhi is the real thing and Monti is another culture nut, may be the real asoka.

Mansa is for sure Elizabeth. So he too is a valid target. I can not get who Zulu is. Friendly expansionist? Augustus, Fred? Any ideas?

I assume civic favorites would be a valid clue. If so:

Gandhi, Mansa, and Shaka favor Free Religion. This means they are Asoka, Darius and Liz. Not sure which is which.

Monty favors Free Markets, so he is either Hammurabi or Mansa.

GK is either Zara, Izzy, Justinian, or Saledin.

Rags is either Alex, Charlemange, Cyrus, or Mehmed.

Asoka is either Roos or Togu, not that it matters given the way MP abused him.

[Cactus Pete]

Looks good. Only caution I would raise is that we may not want to whip too much while still in a GA.

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by The-Hawk

I think the decision on attacking West or South should be based solely on where our military will be positioned after we kill GK and Rags. As it looks like Rags will be done before GK, I would think we would attack Gandhi next. I.e. while we are finishing GK, we move the Rags army into position.Agree

Our privateer will not make it to Oz. We might need to think about sending a Frigate. If West gets to destroyers, it may be impossible to get an invasion fleet through their lands to Oz after we go to war with them. I would vote for killing Oz before we start on West. Maybe some units from the Rags war can take the southern route.Good advise

If we are lucky, Oz will only have rifles. If a strong unit was prepopulated there, it may be more of a challenge. Luckily, the city has no hammers, so it can't be building much of a stack. I am sure it wont be anything more than rifles.

I assume civic favorites would be a valid clue. If so:

Gandhi, Mansa, and Shaka favor Free Religion. This means they are Asoka, Darius and Liz. Not sure which is which.

Monty favors Free Markets, so he is either Hammurabi or Mansa.

GK is either Zara, Izzy, Justinian, or Saledin.

Rags is either Alex, Charlemange, Cyrus, or Mehmed.

Asoka is either Roos or Togu, not that it matters given the way MP abused him.

Good read on the situation, I will buy it. I have never ran into the situation where elizabeth is this big.

Originally Posted by Cactus Pete

Looks good. Only caution I would raise is that we may not want to whip too much while still in a GA.

I will not whip working pop during a GA. Unhappy ones are not safe.

[Htadus]

I will play tonight.

Okay, i have the file open.

We get 61 science at 0% and 227 gpt. Steel in 13 turns.
Switching civics.
now we get 11 science at 0% and 200 gpt. Steel in 76 turns. Ouch.

@60 Percent we get steel in 2 turns. Good. Next science will be set to heading to Rifles at balance budget, if not at 0 scince.

I will micro all cities for maximum immidate gains: units and wealth/science.
England will start on galleons.
Unhappy core cities will be whipped if they can not produce units every 2-3 turns or good gold generation.
Workers will be roading/forting to mongol and to south.
Siege and slow units will get a ride via galleons. Fast ones will run. Set up chain to mongolia.

I will stop if anything unusual happens.

Sorry, writing micro is kuku right now. But war will continue.

After GA

[Mad Professor]

Good luck. Go kick some serious butt...

[leif erikson]

Ditto MP.

Doing a Turkey Day haka in the backyard, chasing wild turkeys around.

[Htadus]

Played about 9 turns. Rags has 2 cities. Likely end him next turn.

2 teams are ready to attack Mongols. Workers are doing recon in india and Astecs. We have a good number of Frigates for the navel attacks.

Will continue in the morning. Maybe 6-8 turns?

Take a look and comment on the trade possibilites. Bad luck with Oz recon units.

[The-Hawk]

Steel and MilSci will gain us Repl Parts and Physics (plus gold). This would allow us to grab arty and anti-tank pretty quickly. We will be running into airships, might be nice to have some anti-tanks (although the airships are really just an annoyance).

[leif erikson]

Nice work Htadus.

I can now see why Gandhi/Montie instead of Shaka/Mansa. Gandhi/Montie still have old units and should be quick to get through, if we can get there fairly soon.

Originally Posted by Htadus

Take a look and comment on the trade possibilites. Bad luck with Oz recon units.

Don't think I would trade anything?

Shaka will give Physics plus Replaceable Parts plus 230 for Military Science plus Steel. Steel opens up Artillery for him.
Also, he cannot be far from Assembly Line and Infantry, can he?

Have you tried asking them for tech, like Replaceable Parts or Physics since he is such a good friend with us?

Keep up the great work and I'll go out this morning and perform a haka in the woods...

[The-Hawk]

My thought was as long as we are trading with the AI's we are not going to attack it does not matter if they get advanced. While we don't want them to have advanced units if we need to carve out a couple of Shaka cities in the core to finish, I suspect they will have researched them anyhow.

[leif erikson]

I was thinking that he is much closer to the advanced units than we are so by enabling him, we might find ourselves in hot water because Shaka/Mansa are friendly with Gandhi/Montie. Our attack on Gandhi/Montie will lower our diplo rating with S/M. Our saving grace may be our power rating as it exceeds either of the the other teams, even added together.

Would find attacking Infantry and Artillery with Cannons, Grens, Rifles and Cavs tough going? May be that way anyway?

I thought it was pretty interesting that we came to the exact opposite conclusion.

[Htadus]

I have been asking for any kind of gift to force a 10 turn peace with shaka group but they are not very generous.

They have been willing to trade phisics for steel for a long time. So they are not teching up that line yet. So my guess is they are heading to space. So they are teching electricity right now.

Here is what I think we do. Gandhi/Monti is close to getting chem by the way. We trade Mil Sci to Zulu this turn and then to Gandhi/Monti to get rifling. Then we are going to be on even footing even if they get Assembly Line. We keep steel to let them tech it them self. Cavs will speed the process for us.

I will wait for a reply before playing.

[The-Hawk]

Originally Posted by Htadus

We trade Mil Sci to Zulu this turn and then to Gandhi/Monti to get rifling. Then we are going to be on even footing even if they get Assembly Line. We keep steel to let them tech it them self. Cavs will speed the process for us.

If we trade MilSci to G/M, won't that give them Cavs as well? Not sure we gain much. Especially since rifles will be a challenge for our Cavs anyhow. I guess it speeds us to Inf. Not sure where I come out on this .