Era of Miracles fantasy mod - developer diary

[Calavente]

some naming ideas for "assimilation center"
(well, maybe, instead of "assimilation", it could just show the presence of the invader, or it's effort to respect the conquered.. as for the Roman Empire)

-"imperial governor"
-"imperial tribun"
-"Local hall of justice" (to show that the local common law is used and not the imperial common law)
-"Public pardon"

sorry for the lack of better ideas.

[PawelS]

Imperial Governor is a good idea for a UB for one of the civs - the Holy Archon Empire.

[rocklikeafool]

Speaking of...do you have a cohesive list of all civs in your mod? I can find a bunch of posts, but it may be easier to just have a cohesive list on the front page or something.

[PawelS]

I posted some info about some civs some time ago (when I was doing one post per day), but not about all of them, IIRC. Putting info on the front page is a good idea, I've posted the list of all 20 planned civs there now. These are only short descriptions for now, but it's possible that I'll post some more details (like UUs, UBs and UAs) later. Perhaps I'll also move some other information, like the social policies, there later (but I suppose there is a size restriction on posts, and I haven't "reserved" any posts after the first one, like it's usually done in such cases).

So see the first post in this thread for a list of all civilizations in the mod.

[Meclodar]

Hey Ho,

so how close are u to releasing a version of ure mod? (have any of u tested that Faerun mod available via Civ database? It looks realy nice, but still needs a lot of work to make it authentic)

I´d be happy to help alpha / Beta testing, if you need anyone Im no modder, but i do have a good eye for game flow issues.

[PawelS]

Version 1 will be released some time after the expansion comes out. Any version that is suitable for testing will be released to the public, so everyone can contribute to fixing bugs and balance issues.

I played the Faerun Scenario, check my earlier posts in this thread for my impressions.

[PawelS]

As I already wrote in this thread, the Minor Civilizations in this mod will have multiple cities. I created LUA code that grants them additional cities. The maximum distance from their capital to the cities they get is 8 hexes, also they won't get any cities when they are at war with someone (so you can prevent them from getting more cities by declaring war; I don't know how to prevent this exploit, but this rule is needed because I don't want to make them pop new cities when you're in the middle of conquering them; perhaps when the DLL is available I'll make them use Settlers normally instead of spawning cities). The maximum number of cities per minor civ is 4 (unless they get more by conquest).

The number of minor civs on the map is much smaller than in vanilla game, it's half the number of major civs by default. The cost of bribing them to get good relations is higher. Every minor civ has a different trait. Here is a list of them (I'm not sure if all of them will be available in version 1):

1. Mercenaries (Militaristic - gives you units) (I need ideas for a better name; ideas to change the other names are welcome too)
2. Smallshire (Halflings; Agricultural - gives you food)
3. Free Miners (Dwarves; Industrial - gives you production)
4. Council of the Wise (Scientific - gives you science) (I think I'll remove the policy effect that gives you science from Minor Civs)
5. Green Company (Elves; Cultural - gives you culture)
6. Enchanted Valley (Magical - gives you mana)
7. The Troupe (Entertainment - gives you happiness)
8. Black Horde (Orcs; gives you nothing except the usual stuff you get from allied minor civs - resources, territory visibility and help during wars; is Hostile (if I manage to make the minor civ personalities non-random), so influence drops fast - generally it's better to conquer it than to befriend it, but it will have high military flavors, so it shouldn't be an easy target.)

If I get more ideas (if you have them, don't hesitate to post them here ), there will be more of them. The non-standard types will be possible thanks to this mod (or perhaps I'll do it using C++ if the DLL code is available). Also, I want them to have better relations with major civs of the same race, if I figure out how to do it.

[Ahriman]

A dummy city state (the Black Horde) is an interesting idea; I assume the AI will somehow know not to waste money on befriending it?

I guess I worry a bit though that the only role they'll have will be to take up space; you'd probably be better off warring against a major civ, which weakens a rival, rather than a CS. Could there be some way to make conquering them rewarding - maybe they have horded loot, or conquering them gives you some kind of extra trait, like a Tough Guy bonus that gives a bonus vs other orcs, or monsters, or barbarians?

[PawelS]

Thanks for posting Ahriman, I missed you

I assume the AI will somehow know not to waste money on befriending it?

Well, currently I have no idea how to accomplish it, but once I get my hands on the DLL... But still there will be some benefits of befriending them, often in the vanilla game getting a resource is more important than the bonuses that city-states provide. Also, perhaps the AI is less willing to befriend hostile minor civs (although I currently don't know how to make them always hostile).

I guess I worry a bit though that the only role they'll have will be to take up space; you'd probably be better off warring against a major civ, which weakens a rival, rather than a CS. Could there be some way to make conquering them rewarding - maybe they have horded loot, or conquering them gives you some kind of extra trait, like a Tough Guy bonus that gives a bonus vs other orcs, or monsters, or barbarians?

Good idea, I think I'll give them a wonder in their capital that gives some benefits to the one who conquers them...


There is something I should tell you all: I was a Gods & Kings beta-tester, so I had early access to it, and could start working on a G&K-compatible version of the mod earlier. There are still lots of things to do though, so don't expect a release this month.

(If you own the expansion, you can find me in the credits under "Frankenstein Test Group". Unfortunately, according to the NDA I can't tell you any details about my involvement, so don't ask me about it )

I attached a screenshot showing the new water features that I added to the game: Reef and Kelp (using the Stone and Dye resource graphics). They give yield bonuses (Reef +1 production, Kelp +1 food), and slow down ships moving through them (Atoll costs 2 movement points, Kelp 3 and Reef 4). I'm also going to add some defensive bonuses to them, but last time I tried it didn't seem to work, so perhaps the DLL is required for this as well.

[Ahriman]

, I think I'll give them a wonder in their capital that gives some benefits to the one who conquers them...

I like this implementation. It also means someone else could come along and capture the city, and show the orcs that *they* are the real tough guy.

New water features sound very good.

[rocklikeafool]

Originally Posted by PawelS

I attached a screenshot showing the new water features that I added to the game: Reef and Kelp (using the Stone and Dye resource graphics). They give yield bonuses (Reef +1 production, Kelp +1 food), and slow down ships moving through them (Atoll costs 2 movement points, Kelp 3 and Reef 4). I'm also going to add some defensive bonuses to them, but last time I tried it didn't seem to work, so perhaps the DLL is required for this as well.

YES! Defense bonuses on water. Better naval combat!

And I'm never gonna turn down more food.

Also, the Black Horde ideas sound really good. I like the idea of a tough, conquerable CS. I really do hope you make them a tough nut to crack. For instance, maybe they live in hills, so they've all these defensive bonuses and hill forts. Oh, the possibilities!

[Pazyryk]

Originally Posted by PawelS

I was a Gods & Kings beta-tester,

Unfair advantage! (Just kidding...) But this invites two questions/requests:

1. If you have anyone's ear that might make a difference, can you let them know that adding 3D art is still prohibitively difficult (units) or impossible (other asset types)? I'm pretty sure this is the #1 reason that Civ5 modding is so stunted (compared to Civ4) even above dll release. Sometimes I think the devs are really unaware of what is going on in the modding side. They've gone to such lengths to make a fantastic modding platform, then let it die over one or two limitations.
   
2. Please post anything you have learned about modding religions. I've looked around enough to think I know how to Lua trigger religion changes and beliefs (one of those "Network.blahblahblah..." things, unfortunately all of the player functions are Gets with no Sets). I'm still not clear on a lot though. Are religions game objects?

[PawelS]

Originally Posted by Pazyryk

If you have anyone's ear that might make a difference, can you let them know that adding 3D art is still prohibitively difficult (units) or impossible (other asset types)? I'm pretty sure this is the #1 reason that Civ5 modding is so stunted (compared to Civ4) even above dll release. Sometimes I think the devs are really unaware of what is going on in the modding side. They've gone to such lengths to make a fantastic modding platform, then let it die over one or two limitations.

I'll let them know.

Please post anything you have learned about modding religions. I've looked around enough to think I know how to Lua trigger religion changes and beliefs (one of those "Network.blahblahblah..." things, unfortunately all of the player functions are Gets with no Sets). I'm still not clear on a lot though. Are religions game objects?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I haven't touched modding the religion at all. I have some ideas how to implement religion it my mod, but it shouldn't require any LUA code. Perhaps you can ask the other people listed in the credits...

[Pazyryk]

Just to clarify my #1 point: I'm not asking the devs to make 3D tools or teach us how to make 3D models. The problem is that folks that can already make 3D models (and have done so for Civ4) just can't figure it out for Civ5.

[rocklikeafool]

Originally Posted by Pazyryk

one of those "Network.blahblahblah..." things, unfortunately all of the player functions are Gets with no Sets

Wait...why would they go to the bother making getters but no setters? That's...just odd...

[PawelS]

A few words about the unit maintenance costs:

I don't like the maintenance formula used in the vanilla game (cost depending on number of units and the current turn number using a complicated equation). Instead I made every unit have a gold maintenance cost, just like buildings. High level units have higher costs. Currently the cost of most units is 1, 1.5, 2 or 3 gold per turn, but it's subject to balancing. I even managed to make this cost displayed in tooltips and civilopedia

It seems the purpose of exponentially increasing maintenance costs was to punish the players who have too many units. But there is another mechanic that can do it: the unit supply limit. In the vanilla game it doesn't serve its purpose, because it's ridiculously high. I reduced it considerably, so you (or the AI) can no longer create "carpets of doom".

[Calavente]

MoM (cIV-FFH-modmod) has a concept of the same kind :
hard cap on number of units ;
modified by :
-number of cities/city pop
-civics(policies)
-some buildings (eg : "increase support units by 15% of city pop")
-some civ UA/trait: to allow some civs designed for mass zerglings to support more units than elite-protoss-like civs.

(however a warrior (3str) and a dragon (35str) occupy the same "support").

[rocklikeafool]

Originally Posted by Calavente

(however a warrior (3str) and a dragon (35str) occupy the same "support").

From a purely supply point of view, shouldn't they occupy the same support? I mean, thousands of men probably eat as much per day as a dragon, in terms of pure money spent on food. Point is, it makes sense sense for whatever unit to occupy the same support type.

[PawelS]

I played MoM, so I know its unit support feature. The unit supply limit mechanic in Civ5 (number of units depending on number of cities and population) is good for my purposes. I decreased the minimum production modifier from -70% to -100% (when you have 10 or more units above the limit), but you can still get some production in your cities if you have positive production modifiers from other sources, like buildings. For supply purposes, every unit counts the same, but for maintenance purposes, more advanced units cost more gold. Also I reintroduced the Civ4 mechanism of paying for units outside your borders (4 units are free, for more units outside your borders you pay 1 gold per unit per turn).

Another thing about units that I don't like in unmodded civ5 is that they inflict a considerable amount of damage even when they are heavily damaged themselves. So I changed WOUNDED_DAMAGE_MULTIPLIER from 33 to 100, now the damage is proportional to the unit's HP, so a unit that is near death won't inflict any significant damage. This makes the trait (probably the Nikkei civilization will have it) that makes damaged units fight better very powerful, so I changed it to reduce the "effective damage" by half - for example a unit with 50 HP will fight like a unit with 75 HP, and a unit with 10 HP will fight like a unit with 55 HP.

[rocklikeafool]

Originally Posted by PawelS

I reduced it considerably, so you (or the AI) can no longer create "carpets of doom".

Wouldn't it make sense for some civs to have that though? I mean, consider the Divello in FfH. That's their whole war strategy basically. Or consider an archetypical "goblin" civ. Large amounts of weak troops seem to be a "thing" for certain civ styles. Just my two cents.