Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[iOnlySignIn]

^ I focused on city placement in the 600AD map. Historically realistic city sites, religion spreads, Great Wall, balanced with gameplay (to dissuade AI China from founding crap cities).

Great Wall Wonder is in Luoyang. Confucian/Taoist Holy city is in Qufu.

I did not change the Resources/Terrains.

[Fresol]

This setup is quite good, but I don't like Shenyang on the corn.

[Fresol]

Nvm, double post.

[iOnlySignIn]

Originally Posted by Fresol

This setup is quite good, but I don't like Shenyang on the corn.

Thanks! Yeah Shenyang could be moved 1S.

Hopefully these changes will make 600 AD China/Mongolia/Japan more playable.

[Fresol]

Originally Posted by iOnlySignIn

Thanks! Yeah Shenyang could be moved 1S.

Hopefully these changes will make 600 AD China/Mongolia/Japan more playable.

Maybe you could move Shenyang 1W1S, it'll then flip to the Mongols, and meanwhile Korea would have some space to settle their cities.

Also Kunming could be moved 1N, to leave some space for Hanoi.

[Jusos2108]

It is a great improvement, but to leave space for Beijing, I would move Qufu 1SE and Hangzhou 1S and the hill under new Hangzhou 1W.

[Leoreth]

I like it, but Kunming should not exist, the Khmer need the area to occasionally expand there.

[Jusos2108]

I agree, the AI has only few places to settle around there, so it can't screw it too badly.

[iOnlySignIn]

Originally Posted by Leoreth

Kunming should not exist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Nanzhao

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dali

[Fresol]

Originally Posted by iOnlySignIn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Nanzhao

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dali

For gameplay reasons it should be moved 1N to Guiyang, otherwise Khmer probably won't be able to settle Hanoi. Shenyang should be NE of the horse, in order for Korea to settle Pyongyang or Kanggye.

And after adding all these cities, China in 600 AD start need to build less settlers.

[Leoreth]

I'm aware of Dali/Nanzhao, doesn't mean the city already has to be there.

[iOnlySignIn]

Originally Posted by Leoreth

I'm aware of Dali/Nanzhao, doesn't mean the city already has to be there.

Fair enough.

Oh and don't forget to move the Oil to Manchuria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daqing_Field

If there is to be an Oil in western China it should be in the Tarim basin.



Also, how's the new French UHVs coming along?

[Leoreth]

I'm currently outlining UHV changes for almost all medieval European civs (the only one that isn't changed at all is Portugal, iirc), but I'll first turn Italy into its own player.

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I REALLY think England needs to get hit with the nerf bat.

It's 1760 in my Prussia game, and they have MACHINE GUNS.

[iOnlySignIn]

Originally Posted by Tomorrow's Dawn

I REALLY think England needs to get hit with the nerf bat.

It's 1760 in my Prussia game, and they have MACHINE GUNS.

England only techs that fast when it does not expand beyond 10 cities. In other words, only for AI or a Human who's exploiting the 10 cities threshold.

Change the 10 cities threshold to 5 (and decreasing the per city Tech penalty from 8% to 6%, so that owning 25 cities give the same penalty as before) and it will be fine.

And the same treatment should be applied to other colonials, most importantly France.

btw Mobility sucks. Panzers should start with Morale, or a flat 3 movement per turn.

[Fresol]

AI England and France are both amazing techers.

Mughal now is really fond of persecution, maybe they should be forbidden to do so? They've got their UP after all. Maybe their UP can be buffed by removing stability penalty for non-state religions too.

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I am starting to get a little frustrated at all the things in SVN.
I had finished snatching up France & Italy as Prussia, and am starting to feel the futility of it.
Britain techs insanely fast. I don't know if the "Be the first to complete the tech tree" is possible when I have no reasonably quick way to raise a navy before they reach Mech. Infantries. Mega-Mongolia in the modern day is an eyesore and shouldn't happen (too often; as it stands now, it's like 100% of the games)
and the Mega-Spain is an issue as well for different reasons; when I started they had 2/3 of their UHV goals and there was a potential for them to win UHV.
There's at least a dozen instances where cities will "Yearn to Join the Motherland" for no obvious reason at all.
Many countries still build dozens of crap cities, that you have to dredge through to eliminate respawn possibilities and heavily hurt your Expansion rating.
I entered a war with Sweden, but retired the game because I knew it wouldn't be fun to have a protracted campaign against them
(too many useless cities in the tundra, I could ignore all of them, but it just frustrates me).
It's about 1860 or so now, and I will get Infantry in a few turns, but the idea of matching Infantry vs. Infantry defenders (let alone Machine Guns) just makes me want to quit.

Also, the Persecution pop-ups are the most annoying thing in the version so far.

You know, not to mention, pretty much every game looks the same now.
There is no variety in how the game world ends up anymore:

-Spanish colonial empire; this is nice, but it syncs up with their UHV.
-Mega-Mongols that don't collapse.
-Illegally fast teching Britain. I'm starting to miss when the Vikings/French would cripple them.
-Late respawning/dead Russia/China. They did not respawn until about 10-20 turns after the Prussian spawn.
They both ended up vassals as well. They are mostly dead or very small in other games I've observed.
-Large Ethiopia; this one I actually don't mind. They usually take Mbanza Kongo and some of the native cities down south.
-Too many cities everywhere. All in the second ring. Why are we encouraging this behavior?
I never remembered it being this bad in previous versions.

/rant over.

I understand this is the testing phase, after all, but these are some of my problems with where the game stands now.

[Fresol]

Originally Posted by Tomorrow's Dawn

Also, the Persecution pop-ups are the most annoying thing in the version so far.

Agreed, there's no need for the pop-up.

[Bair_the_Normal]

Originally Posted by Tomorrow's Dawn

-Illegally fast teching Britain. I'm starting to miss when the Vikings/French would cripple them.

I have an evil way to stop uber-Britain. Perhaps spawn a city in Scotland to prevent England from expanding up there too early on. Remove a settler from their starting stack and have Scotland play a primarily defensive role so that they don't cripple England from multiple attacks.

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

That's actually not a bad idea.
Make the Indie Scottish city have a stack of Heavy Swordsmen (to represent the Highlanders) to block off the English.
Part of the reason why they tech so fast though, is because of their UP, the No Maintenance thing.
I'm tempted to ask that Leoreth disable the UP for the AI.

Also, there's the problem with Mega-Mongols.
Logical progression should be:

Mongols spawn -> China collapses -> Mongols tear through Russia, Middle East, China ->
Mongols collapse -> Russia, Iran, China respawns and become large regional powers.

I really hate that the Mongols are so big and alive 100% of the time now, it seems.