Altered maps XI: Towards a New Decade!

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by Joecoolyo

Kind of curious about the purple in northern India, near Dehli, what Greek states controlled that? The Greco-Bactrian ones?

The Indohellenic states. They actually campaigned as far as Pataliputra, but they probably didn't hold that territory for very long. Mathura, in the upper part of the Gangetic Plain, was one of their main bastions, especially when it was ruled by the noted king Menandros I (who has gone down in Eastern history as the deuteragonist of the Milindapanha, or the "Questions of Menandros", a Buddhist philosophical text that strongly implies that the king himself was, in fact, a Buddhist).

Originally Posted by taillesskangaru

You could also make an argument for Wallachia and Moldavia.

Because of Fener? I guess. That's a bit of a stretch, though. I mostly went with stuff that was uncontestable.

[Heretic_Cata]

I'm contesting ! Mostly because greeks didn't even have a country and the phanariotes sucked anyway.

[taillesskangaru]

Originally Posted by Heretic_Cata

I'm contesting ! Mostly because greeks didn't even have a country

The Rum millet kinda counts as imperium in imperio.

the phanariotes sucked anyway.

Most rulers tend to be like that, especially in Eastern Europe.

[Heretic_Cata]

True, but they sucked more than most !

[taillesskangaru]

Originally Posted by Heretic_Cata

True, but they sucked more than most !

Romania is just unlikely generally. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the Romanians have had the worst and/or unluckiest rulers in Europe. Even the Albanians have Skanderbeg to look up to.

[uat2d]

Originally Posted by Dachs

Dachs' incredibly lazy and mediocre map of everything that some sort of Greek state has ruled at one point or other, depending on your opinion of Dunqula:

Spoiler:

[gangleri2001]

Originally Posted by Dachs

Dachs' incredibly lazy and mediocre map of everything that some sort of Greek state has ruled at one point or other, depending on your opinion of Dunqula:

The whole mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula? Really? I thought you knew better, Dachs. I'm disappointed.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by uat2d

The holes around Massilia are because you're comparing things that weren't around in the same time period. The ERE only held northern Italy like that for a few years in the sixth century, and never controlled the area at the mouth of the Rhone - that belonged to Massilia, a polis from the pre-Roman era. Similarly, the space between Byzantine Lazike and the kingdom of the Kimmerian Bosporos wasn't actually there in real time; the Byzantines ruled Lazike in the late sixth century, and the Kimmerian Bosporos had ceased to exist several centuries before that.

The space between Tingitana and the most westerly part of Byzantine Africa was actually there for the Romans in real time, though. There just wasn't anything there. Tingitana was under the government of Iberia, actually, not under the exarchate of Africa that ruled Karchedon and Tripolitania.

Originally Posted by gangleri2001

The whole mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula? Really? I thought you knew better, Dachs. I'm disappointed.

About a third of that is ERE, a third of that is way earlier stuff like Emporion that wasn't connected to the ERE at all but which was still incontestably Greek, and a third of that is me being lazy and making the chora of the Greek colonies large enough to be easily created on the map with a color-replacement tool of significant radius in Paint.NET.

[gangleri2001]

Originally Posted by Dachs

About a third of that is ERE, a third of that is way earlier stuff like Emporion that wasn't connected to the ERE at all but which was still incontestably Greek, and a third of that is me being lazy and making the chora of the Greek colonies large enough to be easily created on the map with a color-replacement tool of significant radius in Paint.NET.

I do understand that the westernmost border is totally inacurate (specially in Andalusia), but that still doesn't justify all the space between Emporion and Saguntum that you have depicted as having been ever Greek.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by gangleri2001

I do understand that the westernmost border is totally inacurate (specially in Andalusia), but that still doesn't justify all the space between Emporion and Saguntum that you have depicted as having been ever Greek.

Originally Posted by Dachs

and a third of that is me being lazy and making the chora of the Greek colonies large enough to be easily created on the map with a color-replacement tool of significant radius in Paint.NET.

dum de dum

[NedimNapoleon]

Originally Posted by taillesskangaru

Romania is just unlikely generally. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the Romanians have had the worst and/or unluckiest rulers in Europe. Even the Albanians have Skanderbeg to look up to.

Skenderbeg is strong, both the ruler and the brandy.

[gangleri2001]

Originally Posted by Dachs

dum de dum

What chora are you talking about is there were none in all this region?

[west india man]

I've been to a museum in Cadaqués (in Girona), which contains a lot of evidence that the Hellenes created a settlement in the area.

[gangleri2001]

I'm well aware of that fact of our national history, thank you WIM. And no, that wasn't Cadaqués for it's too rocky, that was Empúries, which is in the región of the Empordà (to which Cadqués belongs), which comes from the Greek word εμπόριον (emporion) which means market and that refers to the northernmos bit of Catalan coast, where the Greeks established their colonies. That however doesn't explain the rest of Catalonia and northern Valencia, which never was under Greek/Byzantinian control and never saw any Greek settlement.

[Joecoolyo]

Originally Posted by Dachs

The Indohellenic states. They actually campaigned as far as Pataliputra, but they probably didn't hold that territory for very long. Mathura, in the upper part of the Gangetic Plain, was one of their main bastions, especially when it was ruled by the noted king Menandros I (who has gone down in Eastern history as the deuteragonist of the Milindapanha, or the "Questions of Menandros", a Buddhist philosophical text that strongly implies that the king himself was, in fact, a Buddhist).

Interesting!

The more I read about this stuff the more I realize that Alexander sprinkled a lot of Greeks over the Middle East and India.

[uat2d]

Originally Posted by gangleri2001

I'm well aware of that fact of our national history, thank you WIM. And no, that wasn't Cadaqués for it's too rocky, that was Empúries, which is in the región of the Empordà (to which Cadqués belongs), which comes from the Greek word εμπόριον (emporion) which means market and that refers to the northernmos bit of Catalan coast, where the Greeks established their colonies. That however doesn't explain the rest of Catalonia and northern Valencia, which never was under Greek/Byzantinian control and never saw any Greek settlement.

Probably even them didn't have the patience to deal with your petty nationalism, and they went places

[TheLastOne36]

Originally Posted by taillesskangaru

Romania is just unlikely generally. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the Romanians have had the worst and/or unluckiest rulers in Europe. Even the Albanians have Skanderbeg to look up to.

Stefan cel Mare and Mihai Viteazu disagree.

[gangleri2001]

Originally Posted by uat2d

Probably even them didn't have the patience to deal with your petty nationalism, and they went places

Dachs hasn't painted regions that happen to be much smaller.

[Dachs]

Originally Posted by Joecoolyo

Interesting!

The more I read about this stuff the more I realize that Alexander sprinkled a lot of Greeks over the Middle East and India.

Most of them weren't his doing. The first two Seleukid emperors, Seleukos I and Antiochos I, were the ones who really built Hellenism in the East with state-sponsored colonization and construction efforts, and the Euthydemoi of Baktria were the ones who extended Greek rule into India. None of it could've happened without Alexander, but his Successors were important in their own right.

[taillesskangaru]