Daily Graphs and Charts - Page 48

Leoreth · May 22, 2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

Of course, other thoroughly Christian cities grew at the same time Rome was in decline, so... ah, that was a joke.

It was mainly a jab at the "human progress graph" that showed a similar curve with interrupted exponential growth that started again in the 19th century, and blamed the gap on Christianity.

Traitorfish · May 22, 2012, 08:10 AM

I think that Winner would likely be more sympathetic to the sequel.

Mise · May 22, 2012, 08:25 AM

We'd be living on Mars by now if it weren't for the Christians, and we might never get there at all thanks to the Muslims.

Winner · May 22, 2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traitorfish

I think that Winner would likely be more sympathetic to the sequel.

If the Muslims want to re-enact dark ages in their part of the world, absolutely, whatever serves them best

Anyway, I don't believe in the sustainability of exponential growth of technology any more than I believe in the sustainability of exponential growth of population. Interestingly, the two seem to be linked to an extent...

Mise · May 22, 2012, 09:09 AM

More people = more scientists & engineers = more sci/tech advancement.

Feedback loop for proportion of sci/tech advancement that is related to agriculture, health, and now environment/sustainability (e.g. more efficient use of resources).

Winner · May 22, 2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mise

More people = more scientists & engineers = more sci/tech advancement.

Feedback loop for proportion of sci/tech advancement that is related to agriculture, health, and now environment/sustainability (e.g. more efficient use of resources).

Sure, that's obvious*. The question is what was first, and what will fail first.

(* - of course, it's not that simple. Europe was less populated than India or China, yet the greatest wave of innovation in history started there. Population doesn't matter much if the culture doesn't support innovation.)

taillesskangaru · May 22, 2012, 09:34 AM

Europe was as densely populated as the most densely populated parts of India and China IIRC, if not more so.

Cutlass · May 22, 2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taillesskangaru

Europe was as densely populated as the most densely populated parts of India and China IIRC, if not more so.

Source? I can't think of any reason why that would have been true.

strijder20 · May 22, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Anyway, I don't believe in the sustainability of exponential growth of technology any more than I believe in the sustainability of exponential growth of population. Interestingly, the two seem to be linked to an extent...

Do you believe in the sustainability of linear growth of technology? If so, do you believe in the colonisation of other planets, bringing exponential population growth and thus exponential technological growth with it?

Winner · May 22, 2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taillesskangaru

Europe was as densely populated as the most densely populated parts of India and China IIRC, if not more so.

It wasn't, and we're speaking of absolute populations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strijder20

Do you believe in the sustainability of linear growth of technology? If so, do you believe in the colonisation of other planets, bringing exponential population growth and thus exponential technological growth with it?

I definitely believe in a multi-planet future for humanity, it's just in the short term, we must stop relying on population growth to fuel economic growth and thus technological growth.

Dachs · May 22, 2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

Fortunately, I don't eat fish at all, so at least I am not contributing to the wholesale pillaging of the oceans.

Speaking of pillaging, a graph of historical population of Rome. 1.0e6 = 1 million

I wonder where they got the late antique data points, by which I mean, I wonder whose ass they pulled them out of.

Winner · May 22, 2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dachs

I wonder where they got the late antique data points, by which I mean, I wonder whose ass they pulled them out of.

If you have better data points, feel free to share them with us.

Dachs · May 22, 2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

If you have better data points, feel free to share them with us.

I don't. Nobody does. We know very little about Rome's population at that point in time, and the little we know - e.g. claims made by Prokopios - are suspect.

Winner · May 22, 2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dachs

I don't. Nobody does. We know very little about Rome's population at that point in time, and the little we know - e.g. claims made by Prokopios - are suspect.

I'd guess archaeology have given us some idea of how many people lived there.

Dachs · May 22, 2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

I'd guess archaeology have given us some idea of how many people lived there.

Not really. There is some hope that it will do so eventually, but the work done on the fifth and sixth centuries is too sparse right now, especially for a city that size.

Monsterzuma · May 23, 2012, 12:32 AM

Political map of London is like America: strong geographic segregation

http://paulormerod.blogspot.com/2012...e-america.html

taillesskangaru · May 23, 2012, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutlass

Source? I can't think of any reason why that would have been true.

Well Europe is very densely populated even today, with parts like Northern Italy, the Low Countries, the Ruhr, and parts of England having the same population density as the Ganges Valley and Jiangnan in China. And historically the most densely populated parts of Europe - again, Northern Italy, the Low Countries, the Ruhr, England - were where a lot of technological and social developments were concentrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winner

It wasn't, and we're speaking of absolute populations.

Not very useful since Europe, India and China aren't equal in area and population capacity (even if we can agree what we are talking about when we say Europe, India and China in the first place).

Monsterzuma · May 23, 2012, 01:32 AM

Severe Nuclear Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10 to 20 Years, European Study Suggests

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0522134942.htm

Mise · May 23, 2012, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsterzuma

Political map of London is like America: strong geographic segregation

http://paulormerod.blogspot.com/2012...e-america.html

I don't understand how the guy can write so many words about the Labour/Tory divide in London without writing the word "poverty" even once???

Traitorfish · May 23, 2012, 03:21 AM

Does that map even show what it purports to show? We don't actually know what the distribution of votes is in each ward, just who came away with an eventual majority. If you look at the distribution of votes, as below,

http://www.viewsoftheworld.net/?p=2217

It doesn't seem to be that straightforward. Still a significant contrast, to be sure, but not quite as stark as the first map suggests.

(Also, interesting to note that the BNP vote is largely concentrated in the suburbs, and not among the "white working class" who it purports to represent.)

May 22, 2012, 08:10 AM	#942
Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 19,919	I think that Winner would likely be more sympathetic to the sequel. __________________ Traitorfish is one of the most unlikeable users on the civfanatics forum. Nearly half of his vocabulary is jumbled up jargon, most notably of which is his use of ''as such''. -civfanatics.wikia/traitorfish

May 22, 2012, 08:25 AM	#943
Mise isle of lucy Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 25,092	We'd be living on Mars by now if it weren't for the Christians, and we might never get there at all thanks to the Muslims. __________________ Come to fiftychat! It's where downtown hangs out!

May 22, 2012, 09:09 AM	#945
Mise isle of lucy Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 25,092	More people = more scientists & engineers = more sci/tech advancement. Feedback loop for proportion of sci/tech advancement that is related to agriculture, health, and now environment/sustainability (e.g. more efficient use of resources). __________________ Come to fiftychat! It's where downtown hangs out!

May 22, 2012, 09:34 AM	#947
taillesskangaru Just a passenger Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 16,174	Europe was as densely populated as the most densely populated parts of India and China IIRC, if not more so. __________________ Gonna burn your name right across the sky, so I'll never forget what the feeling's like. IALS - DRAW Your Own Story - Civ3Earth - Mongols - Cure Cancer - deviantART - Iron and Blood 4 - Flankcaster Ponies - #nes "I love making up quotes." - Alexander The Great "I don't think Hitler would be very concerned with following the Constitution" - Zack

May 23, 2012, 12:32 AM	#956
Monsterzuma nothing has changed Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,786	Political map of London is like America: strong geographic segregation http://paulormerod.blogspot.com/2012...e-america.html __________________ "My point of view is that politicians will fight progressive change with every tooth and fibre in their body until they realize it is inevitable; and then they take credit for it." - Michio Kaku "If I had to choose a religion, the Sun as the universal giver of life would be my god." – Napoleon Bonaparte 500px Pinterest - most my Cool Picture, Cool Story and Cool Gif selections go here these days

May 23, 2012, 01:32 AM	#958
Monsterzuma nothing has changed Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,786	Severe Nuclear Reactor Accidents Likely Every 10 to 20 Years, European Study Suggests http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0522134942.htm __________________ "My point of view is that politicians will fight progressive change with every tooth and fibre in their body until they realize it is inevitable; and then they take credit for it." - Michio Kaku "If I had to choose a religion, the Sun as the universal giver of life would be my god." – Napoleon Bonaparte 500px Pinterest - most my Cool Picture, Cool Story and Cool Gif selections go here these days

May 23, 2012, 03:21 AM	#960
Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 19,919	Does that map even show what it purports to show? We don't actually know what the distribution of votes is in each ward, just who came away with an eventual majority. If you look at the distribution of votes, as below, http://www.viewsoftheworld.net/?p=2217 It doesn't seem to be that straightforward. Still a significant contrast, to be sure, but not quite as stark as the first map suggests. (Also, interesting to note that the BNP vote is largely concentrated in the suburbs, and not among the "white working class" who it purports to represent.) __________________ Traitorfish is one of the most unlikeable users on the civfanatics forum. Nearly half of his vocabulary is jumbled up jargon, most notably of which is his use of ''as such''. -civfanatics.wikia/traitorfish Last edited by Traitorfish; May 23, 2012 at 03:24 AM.

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