Guess the New Civs

[Radu_Magus]

I just don't understand why the need to take the merit of Portuguese deeds. No Empire effectively occupates all its domains, but exercises control some way or another. Take the British Empire, for instance. Most of Canada was ice and most of Australia was dust and sand, do you think there were British people settling all over there? Remove them and the British Empire will look much smaller.

The problem is that, especially in the English speaking world, too much emphasis is given to the Spanish conquests, probably because of the proximity to the British conquests (and Mexico to the US), the fascination with the Aztecs, Mayas or Incas, or even the mystery of El Dorado. So people know little about Portugal.

[Pangur Bán]

Yes, the same issue makes the British Empire look far more impressive than it actually was. UK was at its height in the interwar period, yet all that Canadian tundra and Australian desert (or trapped Indian consumers) was not enough for the UK to stand up, alone, against another European power with a slightly larger population and no "empire" to speak of (Germany -- making the assumption that UK would have been beaten by Germany in a one-to-one conflict c. 1939 onwards).

[CivOasis]

Originally Posted by Pangur Bán

Farming is the prerequisite of state-level society (needed for "empires"), and very basically you need food to have people. There is of course a difference between cities near jungles or in clearings, than in jungles; or on plateaus or valleys, than in mountains. Jungle and mountain themselves are limited in value for a state-level society as long as they exist as jungle or mountain.

Not entirely true. State level nations have lived almost entirely upon other sources (most notably fishing, or, in one particularly famous case, trading with people inland). Regardless, these regions have been noted for very large cities - I point to the Andes, much of Mesoamerica, and large portions of southern/southeast Asia - though usually with the aid of coasts or large bodies of fresh water.

[Pangur Bán]

Originally Posted by CivOasis

State level nations have lived almost entirely upon other sources (most notably fishing, or, in one particularly famous case, trading with people inland). .

Societies known to have lived on fish, like Pacific North West Indians, are normally classed as chieftaincies not as states. But, no, any state stately enough to be called an "empire" is relying on agriculture.

Originally Posted by CivOasis

Regardless, these regions have been noted for very large cities - I point to the Andes, much of Mesoamerica, and large portions of southern/southeast Asia - though usually with the aid of coasts or large bodies of fresh water.

Read my 2nd from last post please. Depending on the crop and particular climate you can sometimes grow on the sides of mountains. You definitely cannot grow crops in jungles, nor can central states control communities based in jungles without far more effort than reward.

[CivOasis]

I cite the Swahili, known to have cities so specialized that they needed to trade with inland nations to support them.
As for the fish, I was actually referring to
some of the Pacific Rim states, especially on the Asian/Oceanian side.

[Pangur Bán]

Agriculture has always been the main source of food for every state we know about, but in any case this has little bearing on jungles or mountains.

Not sure what point you're trying to make with the Swahili, CivOasis. All big cities are dependent on trade for food. In the case of empires this generally isn't done outside the state's borders.

[fuzzatron717]

I believe the next interview about civ 5 gods and kings on either the 16th or in 8 days from now. not sure

[CivOasis]

My point with the Swahili is that states existed without agriculture internally.
Additionally, the points before are that Large cities can exist i the mountains and in rainforests, which, according to your original post, was not possible - agriculture was not mentioned originally.

[Pangur Bán]

I think you need to reread the responses.

[Guandao]

Why are people talking about food and empires?

We need to get back on topic and guess what the last civ is.

I wonder if the leader will be Sid Meier. That'll prolly piss a lot of people off, so it's unlikely.

[apocalypse105]

Originally Posted by Guandao

Why are people talking about food and empires?

We need to get back on topic and guess what the last civ is.

I wonder if the leader will be Sid Meier. That'll prolly piss a lot of people off, so it's unlikely.

Why the hell would they be pissed off?

[bonafide11]

Originally Posted by apocalypse105

Why the hell would they be pissed off?

Because having Sid Meier as the leader of a historical civilization would be incredibly stupid. It won't happen though.

[Cicero63]

C'mon guys, its obvious what the next civilization is - a Star Wars civ

[fuzzatron717]

I think the zulu will be the last civ although. I think Gran Colombia or Brazil compared to any other civ. Due to South America's only civ is the Incan civ and you have to buy it. Even though I have it. So South America is not even represented that well. What do all of you think?

[HardRocker]

?

Originally Posted by Cicero63

C'mon guys, its obvious what the next civilization is - a Star Wars civ

I would pay double just to see that in the game.

Do you know how to code?

[labrynianrebel]

Them revealing all of the civilizations except for one is very suspicious to me. They'd only do that if the last one was a real surprise, so it's probably something really out there... like San Marino or the Beors :P

[Eagle Pursuit]

That is what I suspect as well. It will be completely out of left field. Although we all thought Huns were out of left field. What could be farther left field than the Huns?

[ehecatzin]

Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit

That is what I suspect as well. It will be completely out of left field. Although we all thought Huns were out of left field. What could be farther left field than the Huns?

Inuit Empire, and conquer the known world with them...which sounds really cool.

[Mad Man]

If there saving one for last than it's probably something new and exciting, my beats are on Brazil, Israel (or some variation of), or possibly a fantasy civ(Zombies, Greys, Vampires, Dragons, Camelot). Though with that being said I'm still holing out hope for another native american civ, but with Polynesia and the Iroquois I'm more than sure that's not going to happen.

[fuzzatron717]

Israel is a city state. a.k.a Jerusalem