About the role of City-States during wars

[Namaspamus]

The other day Tokugawa took a city from me after a very hard and close battle. A single more unit could have changed the issue of the battle. Some three tiles away a city-state ''of mine'' was standing with their lands covered with a fairly modern army, and they didn't move because they always avoid crossing our territory.

So...

It would be nice if there was an option to ask them to help us defending (or attacking) a precise city. Then they would pass on our lands if necessary. Sure they wouldn't send all of their troops, but a few units would be nice. We could do this in Civ IV with other civs.

Also maybe they shouldn't automatically join our wars. Sometimes their location makes them a target.

What do you think?

[TheKingOfBigOz]

Agreed, I never saw City States really helping out during war-time. Even more, the AI tended to declare War on me just to conquer my allied City States (Napleon mostly).

If you are allied with the City States they should know we welcome their units into our territory. but then again maybe it's because they need to defend them, I never saw City States with more than 2 or 3 units, mostly archer/ranged and melee.

[Gucumatz]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfBigOz

Agreed, I never saw City States really helping out during war-time. Even more, the AI tended to declare War on me just to conquer my allied City States (Napleon mostly).

If you are allied with the City States they should know we welcome their units into our territory. but then again maybe it's because they need to defend them, I never saw City States with more than 2 or 3 units, mostly archer/ranged and melee.

I got to agree. City States are more aggresive on higher levels so I get much more help when I play singleplayer.

But on Multi where all games are mostly on prince since its only Humans playing, City States become less aware again.

[Namaspamus]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfBigOz

Agreed, I never saw City States really helping out during war-time. Even more, the AI tended to declare War on me just to conquer my allied City States (Napleon mostly).

If you are allied with the City States they should know we welcome their units into our territory. but then again maybe it's because they need to defend them, I never saw City States with more than 2 or 3 units, mostly archer/ranged and melee.

True they need to defend first. So maybe the active role in wars could be limited to militaristics. Instead of giving us unexperienced random units, they could maintain a large army from the early game and help out at war. If we can give them precise instructions about where to help it could give them a nice role.

[GenjiKhan]

If your enemy is Siam or Greece on Emperor or higher levels,prepare yourself to defend from waves of units from city states . Last time,I prefer to deploy a Citadel to block these waves,which could easily take my city . With this,I could focus in only one Battlefront and keep minimum protection in the rest,with a help from 2 or more mobile unit to defend the territory .

[Namaspamus]

Originally Posted by Gucumatz

I got to agree. City States are more aggresive on higher levels so I get much more help when I play singleplayer.

But on Multi where all games are mostly on prince since its only Humans playing, City States become less aware again.

From emperor they begin to have interesting armies indeed. So it's even more frustrating when they keep it at home just to avoid marching through our lands. I'd love to tell them '' help us defend this city'' or make so that they conquer an enemy city I don't want to puppet.

Originally Posted by GenjiKhan

If your enemy is Siam or Greece on Emperor or higher levels,prepare yourself to defend from waves of units from city states . Last time,I prefer to deploy a Citadel to block these waves,which could easily take my city . With this,I could focus in only one Battlefront and keep minimum protection in the rest,with a help from 2 or more mobile unit to defend the territory .

I tend to be Alexander, but these waves come when I have a border with enemy CS (and I handle them with citadels too!). They still seem to be stopped by the lands of their allied.

[smallfish]

Originally Posted by Namaspamus

From emperor they begin to have interesting armies indeed. So it's even more frustrating when they keep it at home just to avoid marching through our lands. I'd love to tell them '' help us defend this city'' or make so that they conquer an enemy city I don't want to puppet.



I tend to be Alexander, but these waves come when I have a border with enemy CS (and I handle them with citadels too!). They still seem to be stopped by the lands of their allied.

Those waves tend not to happen to me...

I conquer them all, I guess.

[Liex]

It shames me to say, but I already lost a peripheral city to a City-State (King difficult). It was the first time I ever saw a City-State with more than one city, but that happened again (thankfully not with me).

But what you said is true. It would be so nice if we could ask them for help... this should be possible at least for militaristic City-States.

[smallfish]

Originally Posted by Liex

It shames me to say, but I already lost a peripheral city to a City-State (King difficult). It was the first time I ever saw a City-State with more than one city, but that happened again (thankfully not with me).

But what you said is true. It would be so nice if we could ask them for help... this should be possible at least for militaristic City-States.

What I'd like to do is that whenever a CS who is allied to some warmonger captures a civ's city or three and razes it, I'd like to be able to pin the blame on that warmonger for allowing a genocide to happen.

"See, world? Bismarck is a complete NAZI, he is much more of a warmongering menace than me, we need to stop him ASAP!"

[Namaspamus]

Originally Posted by smallfish

Those waves tend not to happen to me...

I conquer them all, I guess.

Could be an explanation...

about waves from CS they don't happen early game at all for me but late game many of them are powerful.

Originally Posted by Liex

It shames me to say, but I already lost a peripheral city to a City-State (King difficult). It was the first time I ever saw a City-State with more than one city, but that happened again (thankfully not with me).

But what you said is true. It would be so nice if we could ask them for help... this should be possible at least for militaristic City-States.

Shame on you. Well, it happened to me as well but still. And yes they puppet cities, next game I'll try to maximize it (bombing down to 1hp and hope they attack when the geography allows it if I don't want to puppet) If we could give them instructions it could even maybe lead to a kind of exploit and should be limited. would still be nice.

[CivilizedPlayer]

It would be a really nice feature if you could give some sort of directions to allied CS's during wars. Nothing complicated, just a feature that allowed you to tell it to focus on attacking a certain enemy city, or on defending one of your cities. That'd make them a lot more useful, because I'm with everyone else: they have nice armies, but that's pretty useless if they don't do anything with them. I never have had a moment in Civ V in which I thought "Wow, that City State really helped me out there."

[Namaspamus]

and since we 're talking about this it would also be nice if this option was brought back with other civs who are fighting a common enemy. again, it was possible in Civ IV.

[Ailedhoo]

Originally Posted by Namaspamus

The other day Tokugawa took a city from me after a very hard and close battle. A single more unit could have changed the issue of the battle. Some three tiles away a city-state ''of mine'' was standing with their lands covered with a fairly modern army, and they didn't move because they always avoid crossing our territory.

So...

It would be nice if there was an option to ask them to help us defending (or attacking) a precise city. Then they would pass on our lands if necessary. Sure they wouldn't send all of their troops, but a few units would be nice. We could do this in Civ IV with other civs.

Also maybe they shouldn't automatically join our wars. Sometimes their location makes them a target.

What do you think?

I will be good to have the city states help defend their allies... or aid their allies commence imperial conquest!

[Bechhold]

They City States, as everyone has said, need to be able to make an actual impact in the game rather than say , etc.

Why not have City States fight one another and create tensions in Diplomacy and so on.

[prince_caspian]

Originally Posted by Bechhold

They City States, as everyone has said, need to be able to make an actual impact in the game rather than say , etc.

Why not have City States fight one another and create tensions in Diplomacy and so on.

This.

Instead of always asking us to kill for them. We're risking their collective wrath when we do so.

[TheKingOfBigOz]

Agreed, City States are sometimes bit of a nuisance at times, would be fun if we could convince them to attack another player.

[Namaspamus]

Originally Posted by Bechhold

Why not have City States fight one another and create tensions in Diplomacy and so on.

this is interesting and could lead to proxy wars where you give units to your allied CS to help conquer another civ's allied. cold wars, escalation etc... there is much to do with this idea.

About conquest through CS, in my current game I have 3 "three-cities CS" on islands and if I win my war against Babylon 2/3 of the world will be controlled by CS of mine (no razing allowed and I don't want to puppet.) the geography is perfect.

[Pitboss]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfBigOz

Agreed, City States are sometimes bit of a nuisance at times, would be fun if we could convince them to attack another player.

If city states were to inspire to become more then what they are at the start of the game that would open the door to some new possibilities. One of them might be the ability to sway them by agreeing to give them one or more captured cities if they join you in a war, or even one of your own, so that they could become a new nation.

[claestw]

I thought the city states look at the military strength of themselves relative to our enemies. So if the enemies are strong, they tend to want to keep all their units home for defensive purposes, even though most of those enemy units won't ever go near the city state.

There's no data or xml to support this, but that's what I've always thought, about city states not helping out actively at war.

[Namaspamus]

Originally Posted by claestw

I thought the city states look at the military strength of themselves relative to our enemies. So if the enemies are strong, they tend to want to keep all their units home for defensive purposes, even though most of those enemy units won't ever go near the city state.

There's no data or xml to support this, but that's what I've always thought, about city states not helping out actively at war.

It's not what I see in my current game. They "scout" with a first unit the nearest cities and if they don't see much defense they keep one unit at home and attack with the rest. They puppeted many babylonian cities, and yet Nabucho is much stronger than I am. True they're on islands, soon I will see if it's the same on the continent.

The problem is how badly they use the units we give them. It could be a problem for eventual "proxy wars" because a cranking competition will always be won by the AI.