Consideration of the Divine. :)

[Borachio]

Put thyself, I prithee, just for the briefest moment, and only for the sake of argument, in the shoes of the Divine. (smelly green shoes, they be)

Consider, now, two extremes:

1) Divine hevvy: donner und blitzen - shouty voice in the sky.

2) Divine lite: a tiny prod here, a little nudge there.

Spoiler:

Let me whisper in thine ear:
Might not a #2 pass largely unnoticed? (inaperçu - pardon my french)

Why might a #2 adopt such an approach?

Spoiler:

It seems, to me, that this question, the existence or non-existence of the Divine, only matters to...those to whom it matters.

No-one else. dot. period. full stop.

........................

[Birdjaguar]

If there is more to the universe than what can be analyzed through electromagnitism, then it is likely that it matters to all whether they care or not.

[LucyDuke]

How's that, Birdjag?

[Borachio]

Yup. Got me curious, too.

[MisterCooper]

Hawking likes M-theory and that always seems odd to me that so many great minds are open to multiple dimensions but seldom a spiritual one.

It is I think the riddle of the cherubim and flaming sword.

[Borachio]

I'm sorry Mr Cooper. Can you explain that one* briefly**. I have googled it and it just comes up with pages and pages of stuff I really don't have the time to trawl through right now.

These Biblists certainly like to take the word bombastic literally.

*cherubim and the flaming sword.

** i.e. in a line or two

[Mr. Dictator]

Originally Posted by MisterCooper

Hawking likes M-theory and that always seems odd to me that so many great minds are open to multiple dimensions but seldom a spiritual one.

It is I think the riddle of the cherubim and flaming sword.

Because there's a clear line even between "other worlds are possible" and "other worlds are possible and could possibly affect ours"

[Birdjaguar]

Originally Posted by Birdjaguar

If there is more to the universe than what can be analyzed through electromagnetism, then it is likely that it matters to all whether they care or not.

Originally Posted by LucyDuke

How's that, Birdjag?

Originally Posted by Borachio

Yup. Got me curious, too.

ATM we are dependent upon electromagnetism to understand the universe; our senses and brain work through it. If there is more to what exists than can be "discovered" through electromagnetism, then we will have missed out on some, perhaps large, portion of things. Under that scenario EM is a substantial limitation/constraint on our understanding. Not caring about what one cannot grasp or understand does not change the likelihood that it is important.

We each get to choose our assumptions and if you choose to assume that EM is 100% capable of explaining existence, then you will go down a particular path and wait for EM to prove everything.

[Borachio]

Ah. So posit some "dark" EM, eh?

[MisterCooper]

It would be kind of hard to explain electromagetism to early mankind. Could it be described as a flaming sword for the purpose of separating the physical and spiritual dimensions?

Genesis 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

[Borachio]

I am intrigued. What more can you suggest?

[warpus]

Originally Posted by MisterCooper

Hawking likes M-theory and that always seems odd to me that so many great minds are open to multiple dimensions but seldom a spiritual one.

They are open to them because they seem them in their equations. Besides, a "spiritual" dimension is just an metaphor for something that isn't a dimension at all.

Originally Posted by BirdJaguar

ATM we are dependent upon electromagnetism to understand the universe; our senses and brain work through it. If there is more to what exists than can be "discovered" through electromagnetism, then we will have missed out on some, perhaps large, portion of things. Under that scenario EM is a substantial limitation/constraint on our understanding. Not caring about what one cannot grasp or understand does not change the likelihood that it is important.

So let's say that there is more to the universe than "what can be understood using electromagnetism" (Not fully sure what you mean here but let's forget about that for now) - how would we go about discovering:

1. If that is even true
2. What method we'd use to discover the part of the Universe that's inaccessible to electromagnetic whatever

?

What's your plan for both those things?

[LucyDuke]

Originally Posted by Birdjaguar

ATM we are dependent upon electromagnetism to understand the universe; our senses and brain work through it. If there is more to what exists than can be "discovered" through electromagnetism, then we will have missed out on some, perhaps large, portion of things. Under that scenario EM is a substantial limitation/constraint on our understanding. Not caring about what one cannot grasp or understand does not change the likelihood that it is important.

We each get to choose our assumptions and if you choose to assume that EM is 100% capable of explaining existence, then you will go down a particular path and wait for EM to prove everything.

I've never supposed that we can understand or explain or prove everything that might be important. But I don't see any value in speculating about things that we don't have any tools to understand or explain or prove. Supposing that some unknowable things may be important, what should, what can we do about that?

[Borachio]

5 char

[Mr. Dictator]

I believe meditation is a valuable tool in discovering the cosmos and the mind.

Mainly because it gets you to shut up.

[Borachio]

5 char

[Birdjaguar]

Originally Posted by LucyDuke

I've never supposed that we can understand or explain or prove everything that might be important. But I don't see any value in speculating about things that we don't have any tools to understand or explain or prove. Supposing that some unknowable things may be important, what should, what can we do about that?

Originally Posted by warpus

So let's say that there is more to the universe than "what can be understood using electromagnetism" (Not fully sure what you mean here but let's forget about that for now) - how would we go about discovering:

1. If that is even true
2. What method we'd use to discover the part of the Universe that's inaccessible to electromagnetic whatever

What's your plan for both those things?

If a person cannot see any value in pondering the possibilities that might lie beyond what can be "seen" through EM, then you you shouldn't pay it any mind at all. There is little reason to step beyond the "home and Hearth" that EM provides given the abundance of what it has unveiled to us and may provide in the future.

I just find the assumption that life on a flyspeck planet on the edges of one of billions galaxies has developed the only possible mechanisms to "see and understand" the universe. That is a bit too 'earth centric' for me. By not limiting oneself to the EM spectrum as the sole source of information, one can choose additional yardsticks to measure oneself and ones life. Could one fill one's mind with crap? Sure, but we do that anyway even if we think we are consummately rational. Could such imagined answers be proven? Probably not. Does that diminish their value? Probably not?

"1. If that is even true
2. What method we'd use to discover the part of the Universe that's inaccessible to electromagnetic whatever"

The first step would be to truly assume that there is a way; without that as a starting point, it might be tough going. Your use of the word "method" would seem to imply that the solution is a rational one or one that a person can control. Is that necessary?

Allowing the possibility of EM as a limiting factor on us changes the context of what it means to be alive. We saw a similar change in context as the scientific took hold in the past couple of hundred years. Paradigm shifts can have important implications for individuals as well as cultures.