Pre-StNES I: Beneath the Jade Moon

[Starlife]

Originally Posted by Thlayli

What sort of supernatural feats did Luseysi accomplish that would really justify his cultic worship? You know, something that sets him apart from an Alexander the Great/William the Conqueror type figure.

Good question. I've been juggling with a variety of scenarios. I assume you mean what was perceived as supernatural by the masses, and not what was actually supernatural? Or both? We can also fill this in as we play, with varying interpretations from different population groups. But I can give some ideas from the get-go.

With guidance from the Nine, he united the Alyusians and led them to safety. This is down-to-earth, though, and not very aligned with "supernatural" (though necessary to what I will list below). Exactly what guidance the Nine gave him, and how they came to be respected, is open to interpretation / further discussion (again, I left this intentionally vague, for the benefit of an interesting start). But I was thinking that a lot of their newly-gained respect, as well as his "journeys" to seek them out, were "supernatural" from the perspective of witnesses and others.

He had knowledge of the exact location of Jyotnos and the path to reach that land, far from anywhere the Alyusians had settled. It is said that he never led the people astray, and knew precisely where to lead them, through ice and wasteland. It is said that he could speak directly to the concealed moonlight, and could provide food for the hungry during full moons. It is said that the moonlight lit the path to salvation, and that such light would break through dust clouds at his command, when he was in need (and when followers questioned his "true path"). It is said that wind could gust from his body, to scatter ash and flame away from the Alyusian peoples. It is said that he learned the talents of the Nine, and enhanced them.

[The Strategos]

Originally Posted by Starlife

Can you elaborate on your dissatisfaction?

Because I have played enough NESes to know that any monotheism will be turned by players into a cheap “Catholicism” (that actually is merely a series of stereotypes only loosely connected to reality) and in particular will want a post-Tridentine pope-figure, a set list of beliefs, and unrealistically uniform rituals (not to pick on anyone, but it only took one post after yours for someone to suggest it). Meanwhile polytheism would allow players more freedom and creativity in the extent and manner in which they incorporate the civic cult of Emperor with local practices.

"Monotheism" is not limited to Judeo-Christian ideals. I consider Hinduism to be monotheistic in more ways than one; while that religion has a plethora of deities, it is said that they are all manifestations of a single one. I hope that, perhaps, what I am trying to create here can be viewed in a similar way (but of course, not entirely synonymous).

Usually I hear it described as monism which is why I didn’t think of that as a potential option when hearing the word “monotheism.”

Originally Posted by Thlayli

What sort of supernatural feats did Luseysi accomplish that would really justify his cultic worship? You know, something that sets him apart from an Alexander the Great/William the Conqueror type figure.

You know your point would have been stronger if you didn’t actually use as an example someone who had extensive and long lasting cultic worship directed to him.

[Starlife]

Originally Posted by The Strategos

Because I have played enough NESes to know that any monotheism will be turned by players into a cheap “Catholicism” (that actually is merely a series of stereotypes only loosely connected to reality) and in particular will want a post-Tridentine pope-figure, a set list of beliefs, and unrealistically uniform rituals (not to pick on anyone, but it only took one post after yours for someone to suggest it). Meanwhile polytheism would allow players more freedom and creativity in the extent and manner in which they incorporate the civic cult of Emperor with local practices.

Ahh, "Ewww" indeed, then. I definitely see your point. I'm wondering if there is a way to steer away from such dull practices by the players? I think, perhaps, I might be understating the existence of indigenous religions via the Rayaki tribes. I had thought that incorporating those beliefs into Alyusian society is almost inevitable, given that their shrines would be powerful testaments to large natural barriers, and worship or some sort of respect of such geographic features would curry favor with those populations. Additionally, the "old faith" can potentially push players away from turning this into a notCatholicism, something I am wary of myself (! -- but admittedly am not helping by adopting "saint" terminology [again, a world-specific term will be used]).

I had envisioned a colorful faith, rather different from Catholicism. While I'm not completely confident I can prevent (some) players from reverting to their Roman Catholic roots or whatever, I'm wondering if I can at least provoke more interesting interpretations and branches? I was hesitant to label this as "polytheism", because that implies there are equally important gods and goddesses existing within a universal pantheon. I was imagining more of ancestor worship, mixed with the pale light, mixed with left-over Ekudhist rituals hard to shake, and further peppered with indigenous beliefs that gradually come into play.

Usually I hear it described as monism which is why I didn’t think of that as a potential option when hearing the word “monotheism.”

"Monism" is an incredibly vague term that can be used to describe almost every major religion, depending on the theologian you ask. While scholars overwhelmingly attribute monism to Hinduism, they do not necessarily shy away from calling it outright monotheism.

[Starlife]

Sorry to add another post, but Strat: not to be impolite or assume anything, but I feel you'd do very well in this NES as the player of a temple, religious order, or something closely related to dealing with interpretations and additions to the NES's series of beliefs systems. Granted, I haven't posted all pertinent information yet (and I hope when I do, you will not hold back on your comments), but I assure you that notCatholicism is far different from my original vision. I almost view Luseysi as being similar to a Three Kingdoms hero, such as Guan Yu, idolized and made into a deity due to his feats for broad ideals such as "empire" and "the populace" (not completely synonymous, but if we keep going with that -- the Nine would be similar to lesser gods or worship-worthy Bodhisattva). I honestly don't see how anyone could attach Catholicism to it (other than misreading my stupid saint terminology) -- Jesus did not create an empire to rule himself, nor did he charge into the battlefield against dozens of clans or desire such militaristic unification. I want Luseysanor to be kinetic, not static, and ever-growing and evolving. It can be polytheistic, or at least incorporate many different beliefs systems (meh, I hate terminology).

And by the way, I just now found your "St.NES". I guess I'm going to have to change my prefix.

[Starlife]

I'm bumping this to reflect my continued interest in developing this NES.

[Luckymoose]

Did you plan on changing the boring parts and just jumping to the lords and lands bits?

[Son of Erdrick]

Wow this sounds pretty cool, kind of like some game I saw on the taleworlds forums once.

[Seon]

Oh jeez I seem to have missed it.

Expressing interest if not too late.

[Optical]

Originally Posted by Starlife

I'm bumping this to reflect my continued interest in developing this NES.

I have continued interest in playing it

[Starlife]

Originally Posted by Luckymoose

Did you plan on changing the boring parts and just jumping to the lords and lands bits?

I actually don't know. I've had over a month to think about it, and the only conclusion I've come to is that both an advanced start and beginning a century or so after the migrations are both interesting scenarios.

[bombshoo]

Just so you know, I'm still interested.

[Starlife]

Originally Posted by bombshoo

Just so you know, I'm still interested.

Good to hear.

[theDright]

You could do a century or so after the migrations with long time intervals between updates to the advanced state that you want. That way you get the fully textured player influenced world, as well as approximately the advanced initial state for the NES proper.

[Starlife]

Notice

This NES will take place in the "Middle Ages" of this world. I will come up with a backstory, and players will provide applications that establish their house within that history (while also describing aspects of their profile). Once the applications are accepted (and perhaps edited to establish continuity), we will begin.

Oh, and North King will be the land's emperor. More to come on what this actually entails.

[Seon]

Can we assassinate North King turn 1?