The Statue of Liberty

[Archon_Wing]

How often do you guys build this thing? It's incredibly expensive and looks like it can only pay for itself under rep (though I guess you'd be under rep) but it requires a fairly crappy tech relative to the other stuff you can get. You're basically only getting this tech to get that terrible civic everyone forces you in.

I'd imagine it's best on maps like continents if you just conquered your big landmass and are twiddling your thumbs to invade the other side. But it always seems you can tech something better...

[Mylene]

I never force myself into Emanci
1 less pop or build something for happy, or trade or 10% slider..but no way i give up Caste hammers and specialists at that point.

Very rarely try SoL, yep tech is awful .. if i can trade for Demo i might try thou cos it's an excellent wonder or fail gold, it's not that bad with 750h cos SP sky rockets production around that time.

[s.bernbaum]

I play on fractal and mostly marathon huge maps. If RNG has made the fractal map so that I am mostly on one large land mass, and I decide to stay in Rep, then I will almost always build it. I usually save an engineer or two for this. It really cranks up the research rate in a large empire under Rep.

OTOH, if my cities are scattered over several land masses, it is not worth building.

[TheMeInTeam]

Trading or stealing into it can be pretty effective. It's also an amazing wonder to capture of course.

[God-Emperor]

I almost always build it, or try to. The only time I consider not doing so is on an archipelago type map, or similar situation.

I my current game (Legends of Revolution mod) I just finished building it without having copper for the first 3/4 of the build. I gained copper via cultural capture from a neighbor during the build. It was something of a coincidence on the timing. I was deliberately building culture producing buildings in the city that took it and had originally hoped to get it before starting but couldn't manage to do so and, for a while, was not sure I would get it at all. I am playing an industrious leader, though.

Not that is entirely relevant to this thread, but... In this game, the only early strategic resource within 10 units of my starting position was one marble some 5 plots away. Plenty of food by my starting location (3 clam and a corn - dry, of course, since there is not a single river anywhere in my territory, although I eventually chain irrigated to it from a lake), but that is all it had going for it. There was an iron 19 plots away, one plot farther from me that from the other starting civ on the continent, which was on the far side of it, and on the opposite side of a barbarian city that became the full Celt civilization shortly after I settled next to the iron - they later declared war on me and got themselves wiped out (well, all 3 of their cities still exist). It was also about 5 plots from a barbarian city that became the Japanese, from whom I later stole the copper at a location a few plots from there. I have relatively recently discovered uranium in my capitol's BFC, requiring wiping out a fully grown town to get mined. That's it for strategic resources closer to me than the other starting civ on the continent: one marble and one uranium. Islands nearby had none as well. If the other civ on the continent hadn't been distracted by the first barb city, which later became the Malinese, to be generated on the continent they would have probably settled the Iron that I got (my expansion was delayed some due to building the Great Wall after already building Stonehenge - not having any copper or horse, I decided the GW would be a good thing to have). As I recall, that other starting civ (the Chinese), located on the far end of the continent, had within 10 plots from their starting location: copper, iron, two horses, uranium, and possibly coal (which would be the only one on the continent if they have one - I don't remember if there is one or not). I ended up going overseas to a different continent and wiping out the 1-city Babylonians (they had built 1 more), spawned from barbarians and who had been at war with the Vikings (who had, at least, captured the 2nd city) for at least the previous 100 turns (and possibly always - i think the Vikings may have stayed at war with them when they advanced from minor civ to full civ), to get a location that will eventually have access to coal (fun with grenadiers and cannons vs. longbows). Shortly thereafter I discovered the lack of oil, so also wiped out the Persians, who also began as barbarians, on a 3 city island with exactly 3 resources: 1 ocean fish in the BFC of their original city one oil that they built a city on top of, and a uranium near the other city (amazingly the Vikings, who had been at war with the Babylonians for more than 100 turns without taking their capital, managed an intercontinental attack on them first and took a city, which had me concerned until I saw that it was the one of their 3 cities near the uranium, which I already had access to - the Vikings may not know it is there yet). Even with all those issues I still built the Statue of Liberty.

I suspect I value it a little more highly than it is really worth...

[DarkC]

i build it almost all the time (unless someone else beats me to it ). it's good when you change from mercantilism to smth else and you dont want to lose the adv of having +1 specialist

[rah]

only if a vast empire on the continent.

[nfw]

I always build it if I have an engineer (not difficult at that point) and I have democracy somehow (usually as war booty), or prioritize in capturing it.

P.S. I also changed the xml so wonders like SoL provides bonus to all cities, not just the ones on the same landmass.

[SamSniped]

Originally Posted by nfw

I also changed the xml so wonders like SoL provides bonus to all cities, not just the ones on the same landmass.

Creative! I might use that idea in my mod. But I do have one question for you-where were the files you changed located?

[Htadus]

It is great on any large land mass games. Pangea, lakes, Big and some thing and heading for a late game VC. Works very well if you are runing Rep (should be) and for space games with large empires. If you have a 20-30 cities and each running a free scientist with rep is nothing to ignore.

Now if your doing a conquest game and have about 10-20 cities that were kept and end is within site by all means skip it and use the hammers to build the unit of choice. Also if you are doing a Domi game and have many cities and have all the needed techs but VC is within reach. Again should be skipped unless you have this isolated major hammer city and you are itching to build a wonder .

Ideal game you would head to space with a domination style early rushed game and Liberate Democracy. Use a GE to help finish it.

It is extreamly poor on most water map and includes continents dependingon the continent size.

[fibonacci112358]

Wow! Crappy tech that everybody forces you into?

In my games, I rush for democracy to grab the UBER COTTAGES!111!1!1 as soon as possible. The opportunity to build SoL is just the cherry on top.

The effect is, unfortunately, anti-syngergistic with a cottage-heavy strategy but 20 (the number of cities you have at this point) non-rep engineers still generate 40 hammers per turn... so that's 1000 PRE MULTIPLIER hammers in 25 turns, or 1520 PRE MULTIPLIER hammers in 38 turns.


Fibonacci

[nfw]

Originally Posted by SamSniped

Creative! I might use that idea in my mod. But I do have one question for you-where were the files you changed located?

It's CIV4BuildingInfos.xml in assets\xml

[reddishrecue]

When im an industrious trait leader or with an engineer and universal suffrage with $ the statue of liberty is rushed and then bought.

[Mec AntiKythera]

The Statue is one of the Wonders I love to have and hate to see the AI build. It has a very high feel good factor and if I happen to be on a large landmass and have the hammers to spare I will give it a go. These days that doesn't happen that often though, a shame. It is useful for every VC and city type. Newly conquered city? Free artist! Ironworks cranking out big projects or wonders? Free engineer! GP farm? Free scientist! That's what makes it one of the most fun wonders to have, you can use it actively and it is so flexible. If I could take a wonder as a pet the Statue would certainly make the final cut.

[iggymnrr]

It's kinda meh. I sorta figure if I'm giving up merc for something better why detour backwards.

[Riflin'Joe]

I'm usually much more interested in kicking AI butt at that point in the game.

[MilesBeyond]

Democracy isn't that bad. Sure, it's a pain when you have to research it yourself, but it does provide access to US for when you need to rush-buy things. Of course, US means no Rep, which diminishes the SL, but if you're SPI you can easily exploit both.

I like the SL when I can get it - that is, when I have a source of copper and a high hammer city on a large landmass and nothing pressing I have to build. One point in it's favour is that it hasn't really got much competition from other wonders from that time period (except the Kremlin). However, that is usually a time when I'm trying to churn out as many unis and banks as possible to get their respective NWs, as well as trying to modernize my weaponry a bit (usually that's around the Cavs and Cannons part of the game).

It is nice, though, because it functionally operates as Mercantilism without the penalties. If I get it, running it in conjunction with FM, CS, Rep and Pacifism can make for quite the economy.