And now for a thread NOT about A Game of Thrones. Let's talk about WorldBuilder.

[Skallagrimson]

If I'm on a sweet map and the RNG tosses a game-ending horde at me, I will, without shame, WB myself a stack of chariots to wipe out the horde, then re-delete the chariots. No way am I going to let a game like that end prematurely. Or if I lapsed into builder-addiction and got DOWed, just before restarting the game as a set of sour grapes I'll WB myself enough nukes to destroy the world, destroy it, and then move on to a new game. To me any other use of WB feels too cheaty to indulge in.

[Tlalynet]

Why not just remove the units?

[Veristek]

I use the WB a lot, principally for the following:

1. If a city is one space away from a perfect fit between two other cities along the coast, I just WB that ocean tile into a land one so the city can fit in.

2. Changing grassland to plains, or vice versa to even out food production. I hate it when cities have 1 extra food. It means the city will starve once it grows the next size up, and then drop back down one size. That has annoyed me since Civ 1. The WB fixes this.

3. Fixing the enemy cities. Sometimes they build the cities 2 spaces apart, which is AWFUL. So I either delete the 2nd city and move it 2 more spaces away to make a nice spacing, or reload an older save and change that particular land tile to a lake or ocean so the enemy can't build that 2nd city there, forcing him to move to the next tile over to build the 2nd city.

4. Sink all these 1 tile islands.

5. Fill in these inland seas that don't give "Freshwater Lake" bonuses.

6. Make interesting terrain features, like a mountain chain blocking off whole areas of the map with a 1 tile hill as a "gateway", make Panama-like connections where 2 continents meet and you can move naval stuff from one ocean to the other without wasting 20+ turns going around the continent, Eden terrain where a "fountain" creates 4 rivers all going in opposite directions, or other interesting stuff.

7. Help the AI so they can stay competitive. For example, I want a 30 city big AI empire with good resources and productivity as a rival. Or making AI empires fight each other instead of always going to war with me. Fix any bad starting positions the AI's might find themselves in. And so on.

8. Make one uber city on the coast to see how high I can get its population. My record is a size 71 city using 4 corn and 2 fishes. I always have one uber city in every game with that set-up. If I play as the USA, it's always Boston cuz that's my home city.

9. Check the map to see if it's worth playing or not.

10. If the map is worth playing, I put all the female civs on one continent to have Amazon wars and "Land of all women". Me and the other guys are scattered elsewhere in the world.

Thats about it.

[DroopyTofu]

I almost never use WorldBuilder unless I'm especially frustrated with a game. That happened to me earlier today when I was locked in a early stalemate war with a nearby Civ. The war was sapping my happiness and my money but I knew I would regret it if I made peace. My solution? WB myself one Modern Armor. I used it to destroy my neighbor then one other time when somone on the other side of the world DOW'ed and appeared with a stack out of nowhere by a city I would never have expected. I also used it to take one city in a case where I had enough units to take the city, but didn't want to spend time healing. I thought I was doing a good job not abusing it throughout the game, but apperently the Civ gods disagree. I got this popup later in the game...

[tdy99]

The only time I ever use it is if I feel like I might be on an island. I'll open it and take a quick peak and try to minimize seeing anything other than just whether or not I'm isolated.

[Jake Blues]

I play Terra and I always make sure the thin strip of land between the new world continents is one tile thick so I can put a city there and use it like the Panama Canal. It makes no sense to have to go all the way around just to move two tiles over.

[Seraiel]

Originally Posted by 6K Man

Says the guy who cooks 2000 maps a week.

GAFL.

Could you explain yourself why you posted this?

Is there something about HoF you don't know and that has to be explained to you?

Or were you just looking for a lameass insult that is not even one because I said Worldbuilder-users are lame and hurt you by that?

[Seraiel]

I'd say it's relative. If you've beaten 2.5M and aim for beating 3.2M there are only very few starts that even have the chance to make it, and 2k maps / week means only running mapfinder over night, nothing too unusual for me.

[6K Man]

Originally Posted by Seraiel

Could you explain yourself why you posted this?

Is there something about HoF you don't know and that has to be explained to you?

Or were you just looking for a lameass insult that is not even one because I said Worldbuilder-users are lame and hurt you by that?

I would have thought that my meaning was fairly clear; you’re the first person who’s asked for an explanation.

Since you need it spelled out: Your criticize people who use Worldbuilder, and yet you yourself cook thousands of maps in order to create improbably strong starting positions. That is Worldbuilder by other means. Personally, I have better things to do, but whatever floats your boat, of course.

Beyond that, calling those who disagree with you “lame” doesn’t speak well of either your self-awareness or maturity level.

[Seraiel]

Originally Posted by 6K Man

I would have thought that my meaning was fairly clear; you’re the first person who’s asked for an explanation.

Since you need it spelled out: Your criticize people who use Worldbuilder, and yet you yourself cook thousands of maps in order to create improbably strong starting positions. That is Worldbuilder by other means. Personally, I have better things to do, but whatever floats your boat, of course.

Beyond that, calling those who disagree with you “lame” doesn’t speak well of either your self-awareness or maturity level.

Perhaps you should learn to read, or, you need to learn to think before you write.

1. I called myself also lame (I admitted to have been cheating aswell before joining HoF Community) .
2. Using Worldbuilder is something totally different than cooking a start, but maybe you're simply too simple minded to understand that difference.

[6K Man]

Originally Posted by Seraiel

Perhaps you should learn to read, or, you need to learn to think before you write.

1. I called myself also lame (I admitted to have been cheating aswell before joining HoF Community) .
2. Using Worldbuilder is something totally different than cooking a start, but maybe you're simply too simple minded to understand that difference.

Perhaps you should do some growing up.

I stand by my previous post. But feel free to respond and add more evidence for the points I've made. You've given me some good laughs.

[Seraiel]

I expected nothing else than stubborness, sillyness and ignorance from you . Telling me to grow up is like saying "uh, I'm sooooo old, I can feel my bones ache, I must be so ueber-wise, I'm gonna go and tell everybody" . I'm not gonna evaluate any further on this, because I don't wanna get banned from some mod just because "I owned you" . It's not even necessary, because you already owned yourself by saying that cooking maps is the same as using Worldbuilder .

No need to explain to you as you wouldn't understand either, you said yourself, "playing for you means not accepting what is" , well, that's the difference between you and me, I "play" the Violine for 25y now, I "play" the Piano for a little less time, and from those two, I've learned, that if one wants to get good at something, one has to "invest work" , and "that investment" will pay off in "huge success" which again translates to "tremendous euphoria" .

That was just in short the way to the greatest feeling of earth, one you'll never get to know if you keep going the easy way of insulting the ones who're able to go the hard way which you can't!

[Riflin'Joe]

At the cost of interrupting this delightful little flame-war, this just absolutely demanded a reply:

Originally Posted by Lemon Merchant

If someone else wants to play the game inebriated, suspended naked from the ceiling, and wrapped in plastic wrap, then that is their game. Who are we to judge?

.

I suspect that someone who does that is probably also likely to film it and then post it on xtube, but I suppose we probably shouldn't judge that either...

[JBryan314]

Originally Posted by Seraiel

Only time I ever used Worldbuilder was to look at the differences between Tropical, Temperate, Arid and Rocky maps and to see the different map-scripts.

Using Worldbuilder in a game one plays, means, one is cheating onesself, and that's the lamest thing one can do. If one plays forum-games and cheats others, that's not that bad, cheating on onesself is always the worst case, because it shows, that oneself can't stand the truth.

I can understand that it begins as thought "fun" , but everybody who cheats lives a lie. Tell yourself that everytime you want to, if it's ok for you, it's ok, if it's not, join HoF Community and let yourself get controlled by Denniz and Methos, then you have absolutely no chance to cheat yourself.

Why so serious?

[6K Man]

Originally Posted by Seraiel

I expected nothing else than stubborness, sillyness and ignorance from you . Telling me to grow up is like saying "uh, I'm sooooo old, I can feel my bones ache, I must be so ueber-wise, I'm gonna go and tell everybody" . I'm not gonna evaluate any further on this, because I don't wanna get banned from some mod just because "I owned you" . It's not even necessary, because you already owned yourself by saying that cooking maps is the same as using Worldbuilder .

Oh, but in essence, it IS the same. In effect, there's no substantive difference between:
a) generating thousands of maps until you have one with multiple Gems and wet food in the starting BFC, and playing that map, and;
b) generating one map, clicking "Worldbuilder", adding some Gems and wet Food to your start, closing Worldbuilder, and playing that map.

Of course, the second start may be ineligible for HoF due to the use of Worldbuilder, but that's just the point - you're simply doing indirectly what you can't do directly. And in denial about it, apparently. And you're the only one who doesn't see that, because you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to your own behaviour. That's what makes it so ridiculous that we're even debating this.

Beyond that, your arguments are nothing but juvenile ad hominem insults. You don't know anything about me, and your guesses are transparently self-serving.

So, on that note, I'm done here. Go have fun with your tainted "accomplishments", and feel free to call me some more names, if that makes you feel better about yourself.

[Seraiel]

Originally Posted by JBryan314

Why so serious?

Because I know how one can loose every self-respect if one cheats onesself. If one doesn't respect onesself, one doesn't respect anything, not even life itself, and I also know where that leads to.

Originally Posted by 6K Man

Oh, but in essence, it IS the same. In effect, there's no substantive difference between:
a) generating thousands of maps until you have one with multiple Gems and wet food in the starting BFC, and playing that map, and;
b) generating one map, clicking "Worldbuilder", adding some Gems and wet Food to your start, closing Worldbuilder, and playing that map.

Of course, the second start may be ineligible for HoF due to the use of Worldbuilder, but that's just the point - you're simply doing indirectly what you can't do directly. And in denial about it, apparently. And you're the only one who doesn't see that, because you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to your own behaviour. That's what makes it so ridiculous that we're even debating this.

Beyond that, your arguments are nothing but juvenile ad hominem insults. You don't know anything about me, and your guesses are transparently self-serving.

So, on that note, I'm done here. Go have fun with your tainted "accomplishments", and feel free to call me some more names, if that makes you feel better about yourself.

You totally miss the point of the OP. He is deliberately deleting units out of the game, which is the "more elegang form of reloading" , this has nothing to do with playing a game anymore, that is the difference, that is work. When I've invested hours and hours into a game and then loose it because I loose like 10 units with 50% chances in a row, I suck it up, when I loose a GG with 99.5% chances, I suck it up, the thing is, I have understood, to get less frustrated, I simply have to be more focused and more important, "list to what my head tells me" .
Telling me I had a blindspot for my own behaviour is ridiculous, you tell me I had no idea who you are, but you tell me who I am, do you recognize yourself? To me, your whole post reads like it's pre-written and quoted by yourself everytime someone makes you feel uncomfortable, to put it mildly.

[Lemon Merchant]

Originally Posted by Riflin'Joe

At the cost of interrupting this delightful little flame-war, this just absolutely demanded a reply:



I suspect that someone who does that is probably also likely to film it and then post it on xtube, but I suppose we probably shouldn't judge that either...

You can judge them if you like. I've seen and heard a lot more weird than that. I wouldn't judge them, but it's not really my cup of tea.

[bhavv]

Using worldbuilder is absolutely not the same as using map finder or regenerating the map.

When you use worldbuilder you get to look at and modify / cheat the entire map.

When you regenerate however many times you want, or use map finder, you only ever see your start location. You can get a godly 6 gem start sure, but you have zero knowledge of the map and the game you are about to play, and you have not influenced or cheated any of the map yourself.

I've recently had a start generated with zero visible resources in the BFC when settling in place. Some people might call that a challenge, I call it unfair.

I've also had starts on big + small cold maps crammed full of 18 civs where you get put on aseemingly fine and lovely start location, but just 5 tiles in every direction you are surrounded by nothing but ice and tundra for an impossibly long distance, forcing into a one city game without even the one city challenge option enabled.

Theres nothing wring with regenerating such starts until you get one that is actually playable and strong.

[UnholyMudcrab]

Originally Posted by Pisskop

They say control freaks can't relinqish contol of anything... unfortunately if you are incapable or inept at either securing or maintaining control than it seems (to me) like said c-freak is really just a baby or high school drama queen... I think I read somewhere that the greastest display of power was to forfeit it for the greater good. I do supppse better natural gameplay ability would benefit all but the most casual of gamers...

Is this... directed at me?

[God-Emperor]

Originally Posted by bhavv

I've recently had a start generated with zero visible resources in the BFC when settling in place. Some people might call that a challenge, I call it unfair.

You should try the Caveman 2 Cosmos mod. Every start is like this because every actual resource requires some tech to reveal it. There is no way to know what or where any of the resources on the map are without using worldbuilder, which would take the surprise out of it. (There are currently a few features, like coconut groves and date palms, that effectively function much like food resources in terms of output - those are visible from the start, but they are inferior to an actual food resource. They are planning to convert them to actual resources, in which case they will probably not be visible from the start either.) About half my starts seem to have no resources at all in the starting location's BFC that are revealed in the first (very long) stone age era, although I occasionally get a random event the has some animal herd moving in and creating a resource half way or more through the era.