[BTS] BOTM 54 - starts 17 May

[neilmeister]

I wouldn't waste time with a barracks that early, its only Prince. We should get the first additional city, so no worry from barbs inside our cultural borders.

I'm thinking settle 1S,
builds: worker-> warrior(partial)->settler at pop 2->finish warrior->holkan(s)->more workers & settlers
techs: agr->BW->wheel->pottery->writing

There should hopefully be a few barb cities to capture with holkans.

[jesusin]

For those thinking about settling S, I would advise exploring a few turns before doing so.
I'm certainly settling were the Warrior stands now. Who needs hammers with +16fpt before CS and +18fpt later?
Research priorities: BW and Pottery.

[Htadus]

Originally Posted by lymond

argh! it's on Epic

Can anyone refresh me what a whip citizen is worth in hammers on Epic? 35h?

30 per pop before Math and 44 after instead of 45. I don't get it why.

Originally Posted by neilmeister

Anyone up for a Holkan rush?

I see you are doing a Holken rush land grab for space game. I will join in the Holken rush, but not the space part of it. I might cheat a bit.

Originally Posted by Bebekija

This... ...or Diablo III ?

Both, Both...I hope my machine can handle Dieblo. My skyrim disc is gathering dust awaiting a new computer. My wife does not understand why that is a priority.

Originally Posted by neilmeister

I wouldn't waste time with a barracks that early, its only Prince. We should get the first additional city, so no worry from barbs inside our cultural borders.Are you refering to the # of city threshold? Does Raging have its own modifier?

I'm thinking settle 1S,You would be better off llosing a turn and settle NE of the warrior for a space game....or relocate capital to a better location later.
builds: worker-> warrior(partial)->settler at pop 2->finish warrior->holkan(s)->more workers & settlersI like this plan.
techs: agr->BW->wheel->pottery->writingYou have already beaten me to Holken. I am going for a religion.

There should hopefully be a few barb cities to capture with holkans.

That is my hope too.

Originally Posted by jesusin

For those thinking about settling S, I would advise exploring a few turns before doing so.Why?
I'm certainly settling were the Warrior stands now. That is my leading candidate. Will make a great Globe city and with NE will pop out GA's at an alrming rate.Who needs hammers with +16fpt before CS and +18fpt later?
Research priorities: BW and Pottery.

So is the CS sling part of the plan jesusin?

[Sleepless]

Well after much deliberation think I will settle 1E. Picks up the wet rice as well. Techs will still be agr - bw and plan on a military victory of some sort. Space type victory would be more tempted to settle a river for the levee later on.

[lymond]

Originally Posted by Htadus

30 per pop before Math and 44 after instead of 45. I don't get it why.

I don't think this is right, Htadus. I've always known the hammers to remain static for whipped citizens. On Epic, as I've now tested, it is 45h per citizens.

[Mitchum]

Originally Posted by Htadus

30 per pop before Math and 44 after instead of 45. I don't get it why.

Math affects per forest chopped, not population whipped.

...snip...

EDIT: Lymond is right regarding pop whips being 45 on Epic speed.

[DynamicSpirit]

Something that it's occurred to me I should clarify: For anyone playing the challenger save - although it's monarch level, the barbs still don't start with archery. (I thought that giving them archery would make challenger too different from contender given the map type).

[Coilean]

Seems like the barbs start ~2300-2200BC and don't respect cultural borders, from the test epic prince game I started. Going to be pretty tough to have a defended second city ready by then, I think.. and don't forget you will need defense for your improved tiles as well, since raging barbs love to pillage.

I'm thinking worker->warriors for some early scouting and worker theft, whipping a rax once BW is done followed by mass holkan production (maybe axes if we are lucky enough to find copper in our BFC) to take the nearest phat capital city for city #2. Although, those CG3 archers do present a problem, but maybe first strike immunity will make that possible with only 70% casualties.

[Jastrow]

Looks like its time for me to go download the save. Move the settler S (and the warrior probably NE), and then, once I see what the capital will be like, stop for a bit of testing, since I Frankly have no idea how to deal with a hammerless start (especially at Aggr. Barb. settings.)

[Alamankarazieff]

I've tried a couple of test games and the raging barbarians on such a map, even on prince are a real pain. With chariots, it was possible to contain them, but it was a juggle, it made rexing difficult and a mistake or bad luck could have serious problems, and if there is no horses or copper, holkans only seem sketchy (for a non super focused player like me).
So unless the twist mentioned above is an impossibility somehow to build the great wall, I'll probably follow that route, which makes life so much simpler. Plus the fun factor of seeing the barbarians banging at your window like hungry zombies is huge.
On both test games, the other capitals were far, in absolute, and since it was all jungle to get ther, even farther. I'm not sure a rush is worth it. Rexing first, then crushing would be better, I think.
I'm trying a silly idea of self teching metal casting to oracle machinery, and settle along the rivers for early watermill and outproducing the other AI. I'm really not sure it's worth it since watermills get awesome much later but with so little production, maybe they could make the difference. And crossbow if there is iron.
I'm not sure a food rich, hammer poor, commerce meh capital would benefit a lot from early bureaucracy.

[matthew9890]

Do you people think this will be much harder than a normal prince game? I struggle on prince, and if this has extra difficulty it might just be more fun for me to play with the adventurer start (yay noble)

[neilmeister]

Yes, it will probably be harder than normal Prince, due to raging barbs and the lack of hammers.

Prioritise Bronze Working after Agriculture, and try to maximise the whip overflow hammers. 2 pop whips with big overflows are best.

Take the adventurer if you wish, there is no shame in that.

[matthew9890]

I might as well try the prince game. Worst comes to worse and I get an ambulance and just play it again on noble and see how it could have been.

[Solyaris]

MODERATOR ACTION - SPOILER INFORMATION DELETED. Please save this stuff for the spoiler threads - DS

[WelshGandalf]

Originally Posted by neilmeister

I wouldn't waste time with a barracks that early, its only Prince.

Normally for prince I'd agree, but because it's raging barbs I think the extra upgrades on our Holkans will help a lot against barb archers.

OK, downloading now... good luck all

[jesusin]

For those thinking about settling S, I would advise exploring a few turns before doing so.

Originally Posted by Htadus

Why?

Because you shouldn't leave a 4-food-resource site just for the chance of getting some other resource. If you explore and find a nice spot, then it is ok. If you just settle 1S it is just a mistake.

Originally Posted by Htadus

So is the CS sling part of the plan jesusin?

I don't know. I don't think I will even try if no commerce tile (gold, gems) appears.

[Mitchum]

Originally Posted by Tachywaxon

I deduce Random events are on...that's beyond the figment of my depraved imagination...vedic archers anyone?

Random events? Adding additional randomness makes comparisons a bit harder.

[cain3456]

I just tried a test map with rainforest, toroid settings on prince--this is gonna be painful. The lack of hammers, the barbarians in jungle, ... At least after you picked a door for Monty it was a fun game.

[bhavv]

MODERATOR ACTION This looks like it's a reference to what you found in the actual game (though it's somewhat ambiguous) so deleting to be safe. DS

[DynamicSpirit]

Can I please remind everyone of the closing paragraph in the first post of this thread:

Originally Posted by DynamicSpirit

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

I'll open separate spoiler threads in a day or so in which you can report what happened in your game. This thread is rather obviously read by people who haven't yet started playing, so writing here about what you found when you started the game just spoils the game for those people.