Game balance

[GenjiKhan]

Originally Posted by Ajuga

That's incorrect. Gatling Guns were used a lot during the American Civil War and Machine Guns are still used today.
The reason their range is only 1 is because bullets don't really travel that far.

The period of the using of Gatling guns were pretty short,compared to other units . The Machine Guns that is represented in the game is the WW1 version.which got obsoleted in WW2 by air units .

Originally Posted by KillingMeSoftly

I'm also kinda worried about Cultural victories. Already the most difficult of the conditions, it seems to be getting harder with the expansion. Stonehenge losing its Culture bonus is a big hit. I may be wrong but isn't Freedom moving to Industrial Era? With the possibility of a new Era being squeezed in between Reinassance and Industrial, seems it's getting pushed back pretty far. The changes to the Piety tree also seem to give Culture a hit, so it makes me wonder what's going on here.

It might not become harder as it seems to be . One thing they are making is to diverse the paths for Cultural victory,which is way too restricted by these one:

- Get Cultural/Scientific Buildings ASAP;
- Get Tradition/Piety/Freedom and choose 2 remaining SP from these options: Liberty/Honor/Patronage/Commerce;
- Avoid war at all cost;

With the Changes,Culture can came from other sources,like Religion,Pantheons and it is a lot easier to get culture from City-states now,thanks to the reducing importance of gold to get friendly/allied status . Also,with the "Tech stealing" option from Espionage system,you can keep up the technology pace with other Civs who focus on Scientific victory . And let's not forget that there are more world wonders to build .

[nokmirt]

Originally Posted by GenjiKhan

The period of the using of Gatling guns were pretty short,compared to other units . The Machine Guns that is represented in the game is the WW1 version.which got obsoleted in WW2 by air units .

This makes sense because MGs are much more common place by then. And there are other different types of infantry based units to make up for them as well.

[smallfish]

Originally Posted by GenjiKhan

The period of the using of Gatling guns were pretty short,compared to other units . The Machine Guns that is represented in the game is the WW1 version.which got obsoleted in WW2 by air units .

lolwhut

Even in nuke it today machine guns are still a core element of armies worldwide (ie. suppressive fire)

[nokmirt]

Originally Posted by smallfish

lolwhut

Even in nuke it today machine guns are still a core element of armies worldwide (ie. suppressive fire)

I hope it continues that way. I love machine guns and miss taking apart and cleaning 50 cals and M60s. However, in the game, its just that MGs become so common place you don't need a seperate unit to represent them later on for WW2 and beyond. I suppose one way to look at it is the fact that infantry and tank divisions include more combined arms. For example a tank division will have an antitank battalion, an AA battalion, MG battalion, an artillery battalion etc, attached to it. The same would go for infantry divisions, which would have specialist battalions attached to it, so it can fight in more types of tactical situations, it may come across during combat. So, my point is that representing all of this with an infantry unit or a tank unit is enough. Whereas in WWI the MG was more important just on its own due to the tactics of the day. With this kind of importance and recognition, it should be represented as a unit on its own. I am not saying your wrong, but this is how I see it.

[bonafide11]

Every time a Civ game has been released, whether the core game or vanilla, it has needed significant tweaks in patches to fix balance issues with the game. I expect it will be the same this time around. Thousands of hardcore fans playing the game obsessively on these forums are able to figure out problems with game balance much faster than the few game testers they probably have.

[aluelkdf]

I think Gods and Kings will be unbalanced at first. It's unintentional, but there is no way around it. They test prior to release, but they can never catch all bug and unbalanced mechanics. Especially with all the new mechanics added to the game that all integrate with eachother to make a pretty big expansion.

I think the first patch will come out about a week after the release. This patch will only fix major bugs which cause the game to crash and things like that.

A second patch will be released about a month after G&K is released. This patch will fix all the major imbalances, basically to make the game more playable.

I think a 3rd patch will come out 2-3 months after G&K release. This patch will be a major patch that will re-balance many different things, and may tweak things from patch #2.

After that there will probably be a few more patches, but they won't be as significant as patch #3. And the fourth patch may not come out until 6-12 months after release of G&K. That's what I think will happen, it's just speculation, but it seems like that's how most games are.

[prince_caspian]

And while the patches are in mental conception, I'd state my opinion for the record, notwithstanding my bias for them, that right now Mayans have the most OP UA in G&K, possibly the whole game indeed. It makes Sweden, Korea and Babylon's UAs look puny in comparison. What I understand, the problem with Babylon wasn't so significant in that in MP it could be excluded from game as it's a DLC, but Mayans? Can future vanilla civilizations be excluded as well? Since there's still no news of GSes being nerfed this UA is just going to be channeled towards spamming them once again, and soon Deity players will be speculating on who is going to achieve the first science VC by turn 150. Hyperbolic, but I'm sure you get my point.

[Gamewizard]

I think the Mayan ability, as stated, clearly reveals that GP have been reworked, or else it would by really strong. What is the estimated earliest date to reach Theology now? Drama/Poetry has been added as a prerequisite.

Edit: In the IGN video, Theology was researched sometime between turns 73 (1080BC) and 86. So from 1000BC to 2000AD you could get roughly 6-7 free GP.

[Civsassin]

In my experiences with the game, there is no one component that is OP compared to the rest. I remember when the HG and ND wonders were changed to +10 food and +10 happiness respectively. Many posters claimed that both were OP, but in hindsight, that turned out to not be the case. In the case of the Mayan UA, I haven't seen it stated exactly what it is: only that it involves great people. Does anyone know what it is precisely. I simply can't see a UA that allows 7-8 GP in the first couple of hundred turns. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The bottom line is that people have looked at many of the UAs, UBs, UUs, wonders, etc. and claimed they were OP, and while some are clearly better than others, none are really OP. It remains to be seen, but I do believe that the community will find anything that is unbalanced in short order. There will be a few balance patches in the following months.

[apocalypse105]

Originally Posted by Gamewizard

I think the Mayan ability, as stated, clearly reveals that GP have been reworked, or else it would by really strong. What is the estimated earliest date to reach Theology now? Drama/Poetry has been added as a prerequisite.

Edit: In the IGN video, Theology was researched sometime between turns 73 (1080BC) and 86. So from 1000BC to 2000AD you could get roughly 6-7 free GP.

If they fix the great scientist So it doesn't give you a instant tech no matter how expansive then it isn't that overpowered

and for engineers...
You still need to go research certain technologies if you want a wonder with a great engineer. So you're basicly need to plan when you get the free great person and ignore other techs and go to the wonder tech...

[bcaiko]

Originally Posted by GenjiKhan

The third solution was the chosen one . Considering many situations,I think it was the best solution for this problem,because it also avoids other problem,which is the fact that Siege units are no longer so useful against units as they used to be .

Does this mean an artillery nerf against units? That would be a godsend. Facing an AI who artillery spams in a hilly area is awful.

Originally Posted by Gamewizard

I think the Mayan ability, as stated, clearly reveals that GP have been reworked, or else it would by really strong.

We don't know yet that you get to choose your Great Person. It could be totally random what spawns.

[MadDjinn]

Originally Posted by bcaiko

We don't know yet that you get to choose your Great Person. It could be totally random what spawns.

Somehow I doubt the idea of just handing the Mayans 6-8 GSs or GEs is the point of the Mayan UA.

That would be a bit unbalanced and not very interesting.

[Glassmage]

One of the videos showed that you can choose.

[MadDjinn]

Originally Posted by Glassmage

One of the videos showed that you can choose.

but choose what?

That's the part we don't know yet.

[Eagle Pursuit]

Maya UA From the new Official website:
After researching theology, receive a bonus great person at the end of every Maya calendar cycle ( 394 years ).

Add this to the IGN demo video which prompted the player to choose their GP at the end of a Baktun, it would seem quite possible that you could just go for a string of scientists or engineers.

[Glassmage]

too imbalance. Need to add a stipulation that if Maya can't win before 2012 they automatically lose.

[Ajuga]

Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit

Maya UA From the new Official website:
After researching theology, receive a bonus great person at the end of every Maya calendar cycle ( 394 years ).

I would say that is overpowered, but theology comes pretty late.
Normally one could get 3 maybe 4 great people out of this.
Some might pull it off earlier but one can maybe get 5-6 great people out of it at best, optimizing science.

Not really convinced this is a good UA. I would prefer if they simply nerfed GS and allowed the UA to activate at calendar.
Giving the Maya a very powerful UA that might help them tip the favors towards them in the beginning but being a pretty much useless UA near the end of the game.

[Calouste]

Originally Posted by MadDjinn

but choose what?

That's the part we don't know yet.

Maybe you can only pick one of each. I.e., for the first Baktun after Theology, you can choose from the whole lot (Artist, Engineer, Merchant, Scientist, Prophet, General, Admiral), and then for the second Baktun you can only pick one you haven't picked before.

[apocalypse105]

Originally Posted by Calouste

Maybe you can only pick one of each. I.e., for the first Baktun after Theology, you can choose from the whole lot (Artist, Engineer, Merchant, Scientist, Prophet, General, Admiral), and then for the second Baktun you can only pick one you haven't picked before.

That would actualy be great to balance it out. good thinxing Hope it will be implented this way

[PreLynMax]

I still think, in order to balance the game out and to eliminate the war game/ICS, I still suggest reducing the beaker rate 33% for every 3 cities you own (not just built or capture, OWN). That will give a lot more initiave to build a small, specialized civilization instead of having all the advantages on the war game.