Personal deities- what do you think of this phenomenon?

[Kyriakos]

Although the term "personal deity" (which i think originates from "house deity" meaning a deity that is particularly involved in protecting one's specific household) can refer (and mostly does) to deities which are highly individualised or even unique to a believer, in this thread i am using this terminology to signify a deity or deities which are just widely out of the norm to acclaim.
It is supposed to be a sort of companion thread to the "Would you worship a dangerous god", but since it has different scope the question would be lost in that thread.

I was thinking of a person worshiping something like Typhos, the monstrous titan with the one hundred heads and flea-like lower half body. Or even some other being from Greek mythology, of the order of Titans or Olympians.

In contemporary Greece there is no shortage of madmen, and there are groups supposedly dedicated to the worship of the old gods, the twelve deities of the Olympian order. However this is not exactly a personal deity, since at least they use ancient texts which address those gods, and were at some time used by the believers in ancient times.

So, what do you think of a personal deity-worship? Does it seem interesting? "There is nothing more optimistic than the belief in a personal god" writes Franz Kafka in his diary, but i think that even for less mystically-inclined people there is some (uncsoncious) degree of personal deity-worshiping, be it in the form of their own powers (conscience or unconcious) or of other people (a mother's love for her child can be seen as a sort of worship sometimes, or the love between lovers).

[timtofly]

I don't believe in a "personalized" diety that presides just for me.

I believe in God who is all, who is considerate enough to be interested in me as a person. And not just for me in a selfish way. He also is interested in the bird flying over my head, and even the condition of the hairs on my head.

[Kyriakos]

Hm, i do not follow: how is it any less selfish to think a god, some vastly superior to you being, would care about you if you are part of a species that he cares about, rather than due to your individual traits?

In fact the latter seems somewhat more logical, in so far as god's caring can be traced back to your own qualities. On the contrary it seems more selfish to think a god would care about you because he cares about everything. It may seem like a pseudo-unselfish thing to think (in the manner that you make yourself appear less special to the god) but in reality it probably can be argued that you take back every inch of selfishness by maintaining that something higher should care about you, or about everything- and thus you as well.

[timtofly]

Originally Posted by Kyriakos

Hm, i do not follow: how is it any less selfish to think a god, some vastly superior to you being, would care about you if you are part of a species that he cares about, rather than due to your individual traits?

In fact the latter seems somewhat more logical, in so far as god's caring can be traced back to your own qualities. On the contrary it seems more selfish to think a god would care about you because he cares about everything. It may seem like a pseudo-unselfish thing to think (in the manner that you make yourself appear less special to the god) but in reality it probably can be argued that you take back every inch of selfishness by maintaining that something higher should care about you, or about everything- and thus you as well.

Partly because I do not expect it, nor should I be arrogant to think that I deserve it. It is a blessing because it is given freely. It is not that I made this "God" up for my happiness. I learned about God through my experiences and the gaining of knowledge.

[Kyriakos]

Why do you think that making something for one's happiness is a negation of ethical behavior, or at least is selfish? I on the contrary think that in normal circumstances people feel the natural need to strive to be exactly happy.

edit: BTW sorry if i came off as being hostile here or in the other thread, i am just interested in this debate and probably phrased my words a bit too passionately.

[timtofly]

I am under the assumption that anything that puts one's interest above anything else is selfish. I would never assume that selfishness is un-ethical or even wrong. Sometimes in order for there to be peace, one must put aside his desire, or at least temporarily set it to the side, in order for the human race to advance. If every one just fought for their own desire all the time, the world would be a mess. It is already a mess with those who care less about others, and do have the means to force their selfish will on people.

Carry that forward to a personalized "god". There is nothing un-ethical or even wrong in a human sense for one to create a personal god, even for one's own selfish desires. I would assume that if such a god were to get physical and started wrecking havoc on the world, then maybe other humans would have every right to be upset and even condemn that person.

Now to go from a personal god out of selfish reason to a God who is personal and can relate to humans on a personal level. It seems to me that some may think that God cannot taylor his creation to meet the needs of each and every person on an individual level and succeed in doing so equally. One could even argue that God could wiggle out due to human free will and man's propensity to be selfish. Some take it so far that God is selfish and only allows a few humans to enjoy life and that others will perish for all eternity. Now we have a selfish God who created selfish people and it is the survival of the fittest.

So yes, I may be wrong, but I am sticking to a God who is all and can be a personal God to all equally. Selfishness will always be around. If humans can set aside the trait, I have no problem believing that God is not limited by His selfishness, if he has any. In fact putting God first and leaving selfishness behind, it seems the more humans would feel the benefit from such a personal God.

I did not feel any hostile intention, but would not be surprised if a post of mine causes it. It is not my intention either to foster hostility.

[Valka D'Ur]

Originally Posted by timtofly

I don't believe in a "personalized" diety that presides just for me.

I believe in God who is all, who is considerate enough to be interested in me as a person. And not just for me in a selfish way. He also is interested in the bird flying over my head, and even the condition of the hairs on my head.

So God cares whether or not a bird decides you are suitable to be used as a toilet, and whether or not you use a specific brand of shampoo?

I have been known to occasionally invoke Loki when life is being sufficiently aggravating, and Bast when I've been worried about my cats. But for myself, I don't really believe that these deities exist; they are ideas created by humans for comfort in difficult times, as is any other deity.

[warpus]

Originally Posted by Kyriakos

In contemporary Greece there is no shortage of madmen, and there are groups supposedly dedicated to the worship of the old gods, the twelve deities of the Olympian order.

What makes them madmen for worshipping one God, while others, who worship another God, aren't?

[Kyriakos]

Originally Posted by warpus

What makes them madmen for worshipping one God, while others, who worship another God, aren't?

Well it was partly a joke, although it is a different phenomenon to be ressurecting an ancient religion, than merely adhering to an existent one. I would guess (wrongly? who knows) that this distance between the times of the old religion and now would make most followers be a bit on the peculiar side of things.

[Smellincoffee]

I tend to think any theistic belief is a form of this. Even if two people are drawing from the same source, like the Judeo-Christian canon, they're going to pay attention to different elements, interpret beliefs and behaviors differently, and so on. Man creates god in his own image -- whether that image is racist, homophobic, moderate, universalist, or any other.

[Winner]

Originally Posted by timtofly

I believe in God who is all, who is considerate enough to be interested in me as a person. And not just for me in a selfish way. He also is interested in the bird flying over my head, and even the condition of the hairs on my head.

Grow up.

---

On topic - isn't this what many Asians practice - ancestor worship? Their ancestors are believed to be "guardian spirits" and their whole religious life revolves around making their happy.

[timtofly]

Originally Posted by Smellincoffee

I tend to think any theistic belief is a form of this. Even if two people are drawing from the same source, like the Judeo-Christian canon, they're going to pay attention to different elements, interpret beliefs and behaviors differently, and so on. Man creates god in his own image -- whether that image is racist, homophobic, moderate, universalist, or any other.

Every one creates God or the absence of God through their interpretation of lifes' experiences, if that were the case.

[gozpel]

If you believe in a god, that's fine with me.
If your friend believes in a different god, that's fine with me.

I do not believe in gods.

I believe in my own godlyness, I provide food and matter to my family, nothing is handed down to me. I believe in my wife's godliness, for taking care of everything I can't take of.

No god ever helped me, even if I was forced to pray so hard when little.

God is in another universe now, trying to get followers.

But I want a lucky guy as a god, wasn't there someone in Greece theology?

[Kyriakos]

A lucky god?

Hm, i recall an unlucky god in ancient greek theology, Hephaistus. Not only he was ugly, and was thrown out of Olympus and his leg got seriously damaged, but his wife cheated on him regularly. His wife being Aphrodite

[gozpel]

Originally Posted by Kyriakos

A lucky god?

Hm, i recall an unlucky god in ancient greek theology, Hephaistus. Not only he was ugly, and was thrown out of Olympus and his leg got seriously damaged, but his wife cheated on him regularly. His wife being Aphrodite

Well, he was lucky at times then!

But seriously in the myths, I'm sure I read about a lucky God years ago. Maybe it was Roman?