We arbitarily want units in our city 30 tiles from the boarder!

[Tlalynet]

'We demand military protection' unhappiness annoys the heck out of me in this Civ incarnation. Early game with barbs roaming and a city or two with tiny borders I can almost (but not entirely, as they should be happier if you go out and actually kill the barbs...) understand it. But later, when you need a lone clubman in all of your far from danger unattackable inner cities it just irritates me to have to have a massive guy striding over my skyscrapers for no reason. Many major cities don't have a military presence in real life... Does this bug anyone else?

I was trying to think of a good place to mod this out. I don't want to do it too early since it does actually affect the early game... I was thinking of either reducing it each age, or just making the Jail (police station) cancel it entirely. Would anyone see that as over powered?

[happyturtle]

It's the same effect as a single happiness resource, and is only going to affect the cities you think you can safely leave undefended, so I don't think it'd be overpowered.

Of course it amuses me greatly when my massive modern capital city is being protected by a half-naked guy with a big stick. Especially when it happens to be my very first warrior who has miraculously survived since 4000 BC.

[TheMeInTeam]

If someone lived 4000-6000 years and claimed he was the immortal protector of a city, it might be difficult not to believe it.

[jokulmorder]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam

If someone lived 4000-6000 years and claimed he was the immortal protector of a city, it might be difficult not to believe it.

yeah but warriors should give +2 happiness in the modern age. and they shouldn't wear loincloths... in any age.

[Tlalynet]

Actually it scales linearly with city size... It's +1 when you first get it, but by the time you hit size 9 it's +3 . It gets pretty brutal at +7 around size 22...

I'd probably just ignore it if it was only -1 or -2...


Immortal protector lol.

[plasmacannon]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam

If someone lived 4000-6000 years and claimed he was the immortal protector of a city, it might be difficult not to believe it.

That sounds like Rory the Roman, The last Centution, from Doctor Who!
He lived almost 2000 years on his own, protecting the pandorica wherever it went.
(sorry, I couldn't find a YouTube clip for you).
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Big_Bang_(TV_story)
That will have to do for a reference.

[happyturtle]

Originally Posted by jokulmorder

yeah but warriors should give +2 happiness in the modern age. and they shouldn't wear loincloths... in any age.

I agree. The hunky immortal protector should certainly be loincloth-less.

[Lemon Merchant]

Originally Posted by happyturtle

I agree. The hunky immortal protector should certainly be loincloth-less.

Ewwwwwwww! Yuck!

[GA econ FTW]

In civ 3, I liked how the leaders would wear more modern clothing as they reached certain eras (I really thought Caesar in a business suit made him ....like a used car salesman)....I missed them not doing that with the leaderheads.

On a similar vein, since they made some of the cities and units have some architectural flavor based on area, how come they couldn't make the warriors upgrade once at industrialism to look like, say, police forces (English bobbies as clubweilders?)

I have no solution to the apparent thyroid mutation suffered by the units however. I don't know about all of you, but I'm not going up to some 100 foot tall soldiers, regardless of dress or lack thereof, and demanding they vacate my city even if they did accidentally step on the local Beauty Salon (actually, please, I need to reduce the Great Artist pollution in my GP farms)....

[Antilogic]

It'd be great if they just added another couple units or so representing renaissance-age, industrial-age, and modern-age militias. Weaker than the front-line troops, but cheap and effective for policing. Free to upgrade older units to more up-to-date militias (or a pitiful small amount, like 10 gold).

[GA econ FTW]

^ Nice. at Code of Laws, "goon squad". Melee, Strength 2, starts with city garrison. -50% when attacking

at Fascism "Police Precinct". Strength 3, Gunpowder, starts with drill 1 and city garrison. -25% when attacking,
another -25% when attacking if civ in pacifism civic. (imitating some of the 'gunless' police forces in the world)

only warriors and goon squads could upgrade to police force. Only granted start-experience from barracks, generals, pentagon, and the like if generating city has a Military academy (subs as police academy) ,

hammer costs would be 1/4 of a warrior's hammers.

[rah]

Or just make the garrison happiness only an issue at base civics(at least in certain categories). Once the game as progressed past that, the recognition of that happiness could be eliminated.

[Rusty Edge]

Originally Posted by TheMeInTeam

If someone lived 4000-6000 years and claimed he was the immortal protector of a city, it might be difficult not to believe it.

True Dat!


Especially if he were taller than a home, and we hadn't been attacked since ancient times.

[happyturtle]

I rather like the idea of a jail/police station eliminating the unhappiness issue from the lack of garrison. It does make more sense for modern times. After all, I don't call the local army base if my house is broken into.

[Tlalynet]

Hmm, weather I changed it with civics or with a building I'll have to go talk to some other modders.

NO_MILITARY_PERCENT_ANGER is Global, while both civics and buildings give local effects.

Its value is 334 btw, so 33.4% of your population is mad when you have no military. I might just set it to 0...

[Antilogic]

Originally Posted by GA econ FTW

^ Nice. at Code of Laws, "goon squad". Melee, Strength 2, starts with city garrison. -50% when attacking

at Fascism "Police Precinct". Strength 3, Gunpowder, starts with drill 1 and city garrison. -25% when attacking,
another -25% when attacking if civ in pacifism civic. (imitating some of the 'gunless' police forces in the world)

only warriors and goon squads could upgrade to police force. Only granted start-experience from barracks, generals, pentagon, and the like if generating city has a Military academy (subs as police academy) ,

hammer costs would be 1/4 of a warrior's hammers.

Admittedly, part of this derives from a major pet peeve of mine--it is too easy to produce a bunch of experienced veteran troops and maintain them over the game. There is nothing like a mass mobilization or general draft where you call up an inordinate number of units and reduce your population total (and may struggle to replace them). Instead, drafts come about exclusively from one civic, and it produces largely equivalent troops (sure, they are half-experienced, but that usually is still a promotion if you have something like Theocracy + Barracks or a GG or a National Wonder or the Pentagon).

States typically had smaller regular or elite forces and large numbers of conscripts, draftees, levies, militias, etc. during wartime that were demobilized during peace. Some kind of game rule that reflects this, or allows you to produce "demobilized" units that can only reach full strength during a war at some kind cost, or some kind of manpower pool or other method to link your field army to your population, would be great.

Originally Posted by happyturtle

I rather like the idea of a jail/police station eliminating the unhappiness issue from the lack of garrison. It does make more sense for modern times. After all, I don't call the local army base if my house is broken into.

This is the lower-unit total idea, which I think would work well too. I also interpret the demand for military protection as a sort of jingoistic national fervor, so I see the units approach making sense too with buildings or civics modifying it (i.e. Pacifism reducing the need for military police, Police State, well, increasing it).

[GA econ FTW]

^ on antilogic's "draftees demobilizing"

True. And indeed, one could easily mod a mechanic for that. Drafted units would get the text "(draft)" after it, and say, -1 total base strength rating (but I would claim full experience bonus from barracks etc....russian 'draftees' at the battle of Stalingrad were trained by being handed a rifle and told to go or get shot, but typically most civs have time to train their draftees)

said marked units would be able to demobilize into a city (the way workers and settlers and engineers did in civ 2) by "joining a city" and increasing it's popuation by 1.

however, even with the -3 draft hapiness and the pop loss with a draft, since the designers completely removed the "join city" mechanic, I bet with these suggested mods someone could find a hella way to exploit. Just can't see it at moment.

of course, if you gave these mechanics to the AI, the 'peaceful builder' AI's would most likely use it a bit....and If I had to guess, one way typically peaceful leaders like Asoka sometimes get some props on this forum for going warlord berzerk is that some other AI declared, Asoka unitspammed like crazy on defense, beat the declarer back, had this giant army...and what do you do with a giant army that is sucking on the economy....why, find a worst enemy or two, check the chance of winning, and at least reduce your army expense costs if it goes badly.....with the ability to join draftees back in a city, some peaceful AIs might never surprise you to become power leaders.

[Lemon Merchant]

Originally Posted by GA econ FTW

with the ability to join draftees back in a city, some peaceful AIs might never surprise you to become power leaders.

That could be a big imbalance to the game if not handled well in your mod idea. Nice idea though. One thing that I do like about Civ5 is the city garrison (IIRC, it's been almost a year since I played it). In this case, it doesn't have to improve city defense, it can just work like having a unit there, but pacify the little demanding citizens, a la a police force as has been previously suggested.