What Civic ''first'' tree you prefer ?

[Baron2]

(I must say here that I'm usually very, very very tempted to get any civic to the ''finisher'')

I'm torn up usually between ''Tradition'' and ''Liberty''. As I always love wonder rushes, I'm paradoxically tempted to use Liberty (for the free worker, free settler and free great person). It's only on small maps that I find myself able to use ''Tradition''.

[notadummy]

Liberty always. Most people would agree too. Think about it...FREE settler...FREE worker..FREE GP, what a great start!

the only time I would not take liberty is if an ai plopped a city right next to me or OCC
the key to early game is survival () and expansion.

[Baron2]

Same for me. Not having to build a settler on the capital is a HUGE advantage. Not having to build a first worker too.

But the free GP is the icing on the cake. I usually get it by the time I zoomed to Theology. I choose Engineer.

Insta build Hagia Sophia in another city THEN get a second GP, then Insta build Chichen Itza in the capital. Then the first ''natural'' engineer pop, usually a few turn later. This is utterly devastating.

[smallfish]

Liberty.

If playing as India, Liberty + Tradition.

If on a later start with raging barbs, Honor.

[compwiz1202]

I like tall so I always at least start with Tradition. If I'm in the mood for domination then I will do some honor, but I always like to get the +3 culture from Tradition first. I love to have the quickly expanding capital in both pop and tiles ownership. I can't wait to try Ethiopia in G&K. They will definitely be turtley enough for my turtle club

[CivilizedPlayer]

Liberty is usually my start, but I actually like honor too.
If I play as the Aztecs, I always get Honor right away, because that culture for killing barbarians has awesome synergy with the Jaguar Warrior and the UA (culture for units killed).

[The Peacekeeper]

I almost always start with Liberty, there is just so many bonuses to not having to build your first settler and worker, plus early production boosters and a GP. The only time that I start with Tradition is when I am playing Egypt or going OCC.

[lepruk86]

Depends how I feel.

I agree whole-heartedly that Liberty is the stronger start. But Tradition can be really good especially if you have a source of Marble near-by for wonder stacking.

Likewise if you don't, then it's extra handy to help snipe the good early wonders.

I don't always complete a whole tree either... I quite like the Liberty/Tradition split. Starting for the wonder-rush then switching over for the settler and extra worker (I sometimes build my second city quite late or consider puppeting a local city-state as my second if the start is right).

[Velvet Elvis]

I start by opening honor to get the culture from hunting barbs. I take the tradition opener to boost my early city growth and then sometimes take oligarchy to help defend my early cities. It's almost always liberty from there on out. If I'm surrounded by hostile civs I might take some honor policies while I'm working on liberty.

[joncnunn]

Liberty is so overpowered it's a self handicap to select any other tree first.

Free Worker + Free Settler + Free Golden Age + Free Great Person

The free great person is what brings it over the top even if your planning to only run a 2 City empire for a while since you'll get the free person all the faster that way.

And the current spot for Legalism results in Tradition being a better second policy tree than a first policy tree (better free cultural buildings)

[Heerlo]

I think I always go liberty as well.Like some of you have said, it's just good.

I was playing on VEM the other day and may have been a little upset when I realized you don't get a great person when you finish liberty on it

[MantaRevan]

Liberty seems OP to me, the only time I ever pass it up is in a culture game where there's incentive to stay small. I sometimes go with honor in domination scenarios, because autocracy comes too late.

[Lyoncet]

Originally Posted by MantaRevan

Liberty seems OP to me, the only time I ever pass it up is in a culture game where there's incentive to stay small. I sometimes go with honor in domination scenarios, because autocracy comes too late.

That's kinda the problem though: even in small/tall games, you often want to take Liberty anyways because the opener's fine, the free settler and free worker are always amazing (unless you're going just 1 city, which I've seen argued is the optimal way of doing culture), a golden age is always amazing, and a free great person is always amazing. That leaves just the +1 hammer/+5% on buildings, which is good, and -policy cost per city, which is good. That's a really high ratio of amazing to just good, and a ratio of 6:0 of amazing or good to mediocre or worse.

If the link on Legalism were removed, Tradition would get noticeably better. But as it is, its policies just don't stack up well. Same with Honor; some games I take it, but that's because rather than play optimally I tend to play in a way that leverages a civ's uniques to the greatest extent possible. So like Honor barb farming with Furor Teutonicus followed by a LK spam, which makes lots of use of a really (IMO) fun civ while not being as effective as just going Liberty, grabbing NC, and going down the iron line.

[ense7en]

Well i prefer going Liberty because it's the best.

But later on if you finish Tradition, it's excellent, and Honor is fantastic for domination or war-heavy games.

I really really really hope they improve Tradition and Honor so i don't always have to go Liberty at higher difficulties.

[binhthuy71]

Liberty opener>Citizenship>Collective Rule>Republic, then Piety opener, then finish Liberty, finish Piety.

I don't usually take Tradition because by the time I've finished Piety it's time to open Patronage. If I haven't finished Patronage (A rare occurrence) by the time Freedom is available I take the left side of the Freedom tree before finishing Patronage.

Side note: I rarely build Wonders unless I pop a GE. For me, hard building a library in my Capitol and buying them in my other city or cities is better than spending a ton of hammers on the GL. And so it goes. I get substantial amounts of culture and food as well as resources, from CS alliances. That enables me to run a full slate of specialists which seems to materially aid in pursuing my chosen victory condition.

[Bakspatel]

I usually pick Honor as one of the first. There are always annoying barbarians around, being able to see their new camps and gaining culture from killing them is an awesome combination. Also, scouts can give a bigger punch against attacking barbarians as well and so increase their chance of survival and giving you the ability to explore more. You can then use the gained culture for either Liberty or Tradition.

[TheKingOfBigOz]

I pretty much always go for Liberty first, fill the first two choices (Settler and Workers) And then I tend to open up Tradition to get that defensive bonus with garrisoned units (Archer combo FTW!)

I actually rarely fill up the Liberty.. usually during late game i tend to actually finish it up if I don't have any other choices.. I usually fill Tradition quicker than Liberty.

But before i began using my brain, unless I was playing Cultural game, I pretty much always went for Liberty, and never for Tradition

[lepruk86]

I have a follow-up question...

What would you change about Liberty to make it the less obvious choice?

I'd remove the free settlers/workers for a start. But no idea what I'd replace it with.

[TheKingOfBigOz]

Originally Posted by lepruk86

I have a follow-up question...

What would you change about Liberty to make it the less obvious choice?

I'd remove the free settlers/workers for a start. But no idea what I'd replace it with.

Well, The Settler policy still has a bonus to building Settlers, and the Worker bonus still has a bonus to Worker Efficiency, which stacked with The Pyramids passive bonus is really good, roads build in a single turn etc.

To be perfectly honest I wish there were more Policy Trees, like Defensive Focused Tree, Offesnive Focused Tree, Growth Focused Tree etc. I also wish they'd make Honor tree more appealing for those who aren't lookin' to go at war with everybody.

[Genghis.Khan]

Liberty, always

Free Settler, Worker, GP...

I go for Honor too, because of Discipline and bonus against barbarians (I dont play with raging, still I raze all encampments I find because of the 40 Gold reward)