is it possible at all to play a peaceful game at higher difficulty level (emperor)

[jimbbq]

I just started trying emperor games and I won (science, diplomacy and domination) , only through very aggressive strategy of non-stop war and invasion.

Now I started a new emperor game, hoping to win a cultural victory without attacking others, but it is IMPOSSIBLE! I face attacks from almost every corner! Why is Civ game so war-oriented? Or is there something I am missing here?

[Itstrucktwice]

The diplomacy system in this game is fairly delicate. The problem is that it is impossible to not piss SOMEBODY off. Even if you go the ENTIRE game without declaring a single war, or denouncing a single person, you will piss people off through dumb things like:

"They feel like you are trying to win the game in a similar way to them, and they don't like it!"
"They covet lands you currently own."
"You are competing for the influence of city states."

There are a few simple rules you can follow:

1. Barring extreme luck, neighbors WILL invade you at some point. No matter what your faction with them is, your lands are next to theirs, and they want to expand. Be ready for this.
2. DOFs are hollow. The AI will rarely honor them, so the only thing they actually accomplish is pissing Civs who don't like your friends off.
3. Land coveting often times is related to distance from their capitol, the closer the city is to their capitol, the more they want it to be theirs.

[shihuacao]

It is possible, however you will need some luck (Spawn in relative isolate location, neighboring relatively peaceful civilizations, and have a warmonger to keep everyone else busy).

On the other hand, it is not supposed to be a peaceful game if you neighboring a warmonger, or your position on map is too tempting for AIs to resist.

[ense7en]

Not really, unless you play archipelago/tiny islands and end up not sharing any lands with the AI.

The AI will basically always attack you if you are nearby unless you have a massive military advantage.

In my current Cultural-targetted game, i am Siam.
Started on a section of land all to my own, with a narrow section of land that connects to a larger area where there are other civs.

I peacefully build three cities nowhere even close to the area the AI are, and don't do anything but trade with the AI for the first 150 turns.

But then Polynesia decides they don't have enough room on their section, and start spamming cities toward me.
Sure enough, i see they covet my lands as they have spammed their crappy cities everywhere in my direction.

And then, shocker, they declare war on me.

This basically sums up diplomacy at higher levels...nope, you cannot have peace, ever.

[binhthuy71]

It depends on how you define "peaceful." If you mean getting through a game without DoWing on someone then the answer is "Yes." If you mean getting through a game without fighting a war then the answer is almost always "No," especially at higher levels. The inevitability of war is caused, I believe, by a combination of irrational AI behaviors and the way that negative diplo modifiers completely overwhelm the positive ones. You can fiddle with map types and/or reducing the number of AI civs in order to give yourself a bit more elbow room, but at any level above Prince you're wise to build up at least a mid-pack military while you pursue your chosen victory condition.

[GamerKG]

Yes. I play many Immortal games with no war AT ALL. And I have little to no standing army. And I am not isolated.

I am currently playing a Deity game. I got declared war on once in the early game, and once I made peace with him he hasn't bothered me again. In fact, a third AI (Washington) is going berserk and conquering all of my allies. Fortunately, he is ALSO an ally, and it looks like he'll be occupied with that until the end of the game. Which isn't long now, as Korea is in the future age and has built Apollo.

[jimbbq]

Originally Posted by GamerKG

Yes. I play many Immortal games with no war AT ALL. And I have little to no standing army. And I am not isolated.

I am currently playing a Deity game. I got declared war on once in the early game, and once I made peace with him he hasn't bothered me again. In fact, a third AI (Washington) is going berserk and conquering all of my allies. Fortunately, he is ALSO an ally, and it looks like he'll be occupied with that until the end of the game. Which isn't long now, as Korea is in the future age and has built Apollo.

can you tell me how you managed to do this?

[Vivas]

Originally Posted by GamerKG

Yes. I play many Immortal games with no war AT ALL. And I have little to no standing army. And I am not isolated.

I am currently playing a Deity game. I got declared war on once in the early game, and once I made peace with him he hasn't bothered me again. In fact, a third AI (Washington) is going berserk and conquering all of my allies. Fortunately, he is ALSO an ally, and it looks like he'll be occupied with that until the end of the game. Which isn't long now, as Korea is in the future age and has built Apollo.

Wow you really need to tell me how you do that, because if i play on emperor+ and i am not isolated with an almost non existent army, war is declared upon almost certain. Especialy when i am doin rather well.

So whats your secret?

[Vivas]

I thought as much.

[Lyoncet]

Originally Posted by Vivas

I thought as much.

Yes, obviously the only explanation for his lack of a reply is that he was lying and has now fled the discussion.

Or, you know, that he hasn't posted on any thread since the 10th. He must have been really shaken.

[GamerKG]

Oh hey, sorry I didn't notice somebody responded.

I'm not exactly sure what causes this. On Deity, I usually am bum rushed immediately, but occasionally I'm not. Instead, the AIs bum rush each other (even though I am not isolated) and so long as I don't intervene, they leave me alone. In these games I also don't snatch all of the best city spots, I go tall. I only have 4 or 5 cities by the end of the game, all of which are in my own area. None are too far away from the others.

Immortal I often get by without any wars. Again, I think its because the AIs attack each other. Since I expand slower than they do (cheats OP) then they come into conflict with each other first, and leave me alone until one of them is extinct. Usually by that time they've found another warmongering, rapidly-expanding AI to hate on. And so it goes.

So as a summary, I'm not sure how I do it. But what I would suggest is:

1.) Don't pick fights. You certainly can't have peace if YOU declare war.
2.) Be happy with your starting area. If you expand past the 1/2 line between your capitals, the AI will hate you.
3.) Don't let them expand into your area! If you let them expand across that 1/2 line, then they will covet your lands! Place the city so that it prevents them from crossing the line, but so that you don't do it yourself. Hopefully borders will take long enough to clash that the AI won't hate you until they find somebody else to hate.
4.) Trade with the losers more than the winners. Once the AIs start hating on each other, you're going to make sure they stay that way. If either side wins, you're next! I try to trade with the losing party as much as I can, but I still make a DoF with the winner (and not his enemies). If its on the other continent, don't worry about it.

That's all I got.

EDIT: Oh, another thing I forgot. By "no standing army" I mean I have 2 spearmen and 2 archers for like the whole game. But make sure you build these immediately! You aren't going to get early wonders anyway (I still got 2 on my Deity game, Temple of Artemis and Colossus), so you might as well research Archery and use some turns that were going to be wasted on a lost wonder building archers!

[Vivas]

Hi,

thanks for responding. However i don't really see a strategy, but that might be my lack of understanding. What do you mean with 1/2 line between capitals? I have a hard time beliving that having 2 spearman and 2 archers all the time saves you from wars....

So you are saying that with having that small army, and not expanding much + trading alot you are able to play on Immortal and are able to achive something without your empire being declared war once?

[gozpel]

I think he means my fav playing scenario on higher levels, when you're sitting on a peninsula with no AI behind you, but still room for 2-3 cities there. Then if you build cities the other way, towards any AI, you have to be sure you don't sit close to his borders. Normally I think it's like 6-7 tiles between borders of his closest city. So one or two cities that way, "shouldn't" get you in trouble, if you keep 6-7 tiles between you and your neighbour.

Which in most cases doesn't start a war, since some other AI already planted a city by their borders. So here you are with 4-5 cities, good or bad doesn't matter, but you have the territory.

If there is a spot or two between your furthest city to the AI, where you or he could plant a city, just put a unit ontop of it and his settler will stand there frozen. Most of the times this won't help anyways, the AI plant their cities 5 tiles apart and that is hard to combat. But on many maps you can deal with it this way. If the settler stands there frozen long enough, a barb might come close enough to grab it and you have a choice of giving it back for diplo or getting a free worker.

That said, I always have a bigger army than 2 archers and two spears and still the AI loves declaring on me, no matter how nice I am.

[The_Quasar]

Originally Posted by gozpel

That said, I always have a bigger army than 2 archers and two spears and still the AI loves declaring on me, no matter how nice I am.

Exactly... unless you're isolated on small islands or archipelago. Even then, you'll need a decent navy for the second half of the game.

[The Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Vivas

i don't really see a strategy, but that might be my lack of understanding. What do you mean with 1/2 line between capitals? I have a hard time beliving that having 2 spearman and 2 archers all the time saves you from wars....

So you are saying that with having that small army, and not expanding much + trading alot you are able to play on Immortal and are able to achive something without your empire being declared war once?

There is no strategy. The best way to ensure DoW's-free time is to reroll until you're spawned on isolated peninsula with several CS between you and the rest of the world. On emperor you still can outproduce AI and crank out quite a large army fast enough, not 2 spears and 2 archers but more like 4 swords and 2 archers. That will be sufficient for deterrence (still no guarantees, of course), but frankly, it's also sufficient for assault. And that's rather a waste to let these units stay on defense when you can get few puppets with them.
On higher difficulties the map is what determines whether you will get DoWed or not. You simply have to accept the fact, you're gonna be behind in military and seen as weak. As a result any AI may DoW you at any point. Geographical closeness (the famous 'they covert our lands' modifier), as far as I can judge, is number one factor. It's not even the traveling distance. I had a game when France and I spawned on two sides of a huge bay that required Astronomy to cross it, but the 'air distance' between our cities was only 5 or 6 tiles. That was enough for generating hate from the moment we met and sending units all the way by land (at least 20 hexes).
However, you can try and minimize negative modifiers and overall DoW chances. Don't mess with diplomacy (no DoF's, defensive pacts, denouncements, stealing somebody's CS ally etc), stay small, as it was suggested already, don't sell OB to your immediate neighbors (not sure if it helps, but doesn't hurt much either). Ally CS between you and AI who you think is poses a threat. Don't wonder spam. Build units instead. Again, no idea if it's really meaningful, but I personally found that when I get advanced units early, not necessarily many of them, I get DoWed less. At first they don't want to get involved with me and later they hate each other more then me and have enough fronts to deal with. Might be a coincidence, though.

Other than that - pray to random gods. And remember that the best defense is the offense.

[Kabloosh]

Yeah the AI is douchey. I've had 2 massive sneak attacks by allies with no negative marks with me. These guys literally marched their armies straight to my borders and then said "oh hey, our friendship is all a lie!"
Thank got the mongol's special unit is so fricken op. I don't know how I would of handled when I literally had 4 nations declare war on me all at once especially since I did not have enough forces to handle 3 fronts so I lost a city for a little bit until I could crank out more Keshiks.

[prince_caspian]

If you mean absolute peace without any war at all, then hardly. But a 95% of the time peace even when you share land borders with a warmonger neighbor, then yes possible even if you're wonder-spamming, double-pillage burial tombs Egypt having around 75% of world wonders in the capital. AND this is on Emperor.

[budweiser]

Yes, I play tall on emperor and its usually pretty safe. I might get one or two declarations early then peace the rest of the game. At first, make sure you build a few troops before you go all in on buildings. I find four untis of any type (excluding scouts) to be sufficient. They will help deter. Second, sign some kind of trade deal with everyone, especially open borders. The more turns you have deals going, the more the civ likes you. Then I just put up 2 or 3 more cities depending on my starting land and I am good to go until I get bored clicking Next Turn and attack someone. You have to always be ready to defend yourself, but rarely have to fight long wars.

[thadian]

It starts in the begining, sometimes i play to play and not to win so i set diety and build wonders. Once i built 14 wonders with 0 troops and no AI even denounced me.

I suppose if you want peace, you need to get 1-2 archers, 1-2 scouts, 1-2 warriors. So long as you have 5 modernish troops, of which 2 can shoot, the AI is reluctant to DOW and if it does, it will send a big wave, you kill the wave and it will wait 50 more turns before another wave comes.

If you see them pulling back and don't want to invade them, chase and kill their better units but let them keep warriors and scouts because the AI wont usually upgrade them.

[Foffaren]

I have played diplo victory with persia on emperor (I could actually win by culture and science aswell but I chose diplo cause I usually never do). Standing in the middle of a pangea map surrounded by notorious warmongers such as aztecs, mongols and japan. The way I won was by playing them against each other. Being in a golden age most of the time I could accumulate a big pile of money to bribe the AI against eachother, and whenever I needed to defend I had artillery placed perfectly behind a river.

AI is easy to manipulate if you play your cards right. Thats all it is.