[BTS] 5 Million Points with "Inca Rush 2012"

[T-hawk]

Originally Posted by WastinTime

Arid climate and switching to Deity make up most of the extra score. Notice that if I'm fast enough (turn 460), I'm only planning a 2% increase in population over your game. The 2nd scenario needs a 9% increase in pop. You left a couple islands for the AI, so I hope I can squeeze that out.

Yes... playing with my own calculator, doing it faster seems to be the key. Just subtracting 10 turns from my game bumps the score from 3.38 million to 3.55 million.

Arid climate is a good call, I never thought of that. Your population will be just a tiny bit smaller, but say a 10% lower iMax translates to a score increase of more than 100k. I'm not sure about the impact of high sea level, if the map creates more tiny islands or gets larger areas of just water with no land. But high sea level will also reduce iMax further so it might be the right call.

[Tristan_C]

I can see how this quechua thing shapes up so well even at turn 30. When I stole workers with warriors on Immortal, I got smacktarded by the pile of garrisoned archers. The start is a monster on the surface, but those weird AI cities and mediocre luckbox rewards make things a little awkward. Popping mining is better than money but not as good as AH unless we could have followed it up with a couple shots at popping bw. I hate huts and events

If I were just doing this on my own to get an ultimate score, I'd regretfully regen... but you posted the game. Endure!

A general question (since I have no experience whatsoever playing for score): if this match is meant to push and relent against the land limit while stacking up population, what do you do at the end? "Seize Conquest from the jaws of Domination" by capping the entire last half of the map in one turn?

[AbsoluteZero]

I'm assuming this is deity?

Suppressing 2 AI's on deity / normal speed is tough, even with quechuas. All you have to do is blink and one of the AI's can find horses / metal in some city and everything can backfire.

Taking 1 AI out with a turn 20-25 quechua rush is the best way I've found to get a huge headstart. I'm surprised you didn't opt for that, but I'll sit back and see what you manage to do with this game.

[Habitus]

Yeah Deity/Marathon I would guess, but parts of the idea of a slightly later Quechua rush should somewhat translate to Normal speed. Thou on normal it would probably be a 25-30 rush or at latest 30-35. Giving the AI time to probably road between its 2-3 cities before you take them, and possible improve more tiles, have built a 2nd worker.

[Choggy]

Did the Americans and the Indians have a mutual 'ooh shiny!' moment with their settlement of their second cities? And are they at WHEOOHRN with you already?!

[GKey]

Seriously? You beeline Pottery rather then go for early religion? Losing luxury to spend hammers on missionaries instead of all these useless workers and infra plus ability to get all these useless early cottages?

I had a strong feeling that 3.5 Million score can be increased with some optimization. (Even started a game myself and got promising results, but then my PC start crashing non-stop shortly in renaissance era)

Looks like we finally will have a guide for super-high-score game, that actually focuses on strategy.

One final wish if we could play with saves our self, but that's impossible due to HoF restrictions, right? (Settling on gold still looks stronger then SIP to me, switching 2 AI's into war mod that early might be questionable too).

Best of luck, can't wait for more!

[Pangaea]

It begins...

I'm going to assume this will be rather successful since you have posted a thread and branded the strategy "Inca Rush 2012". Look forward to see how this will shape up, and hopefully learn a lot.

[jihe]

Originally Posted by AbsoluteZero

I'm assuming this is deity?

Suppressing 2 AI's on deity / normal speed is tough, even with quechuas. All you have to do is blink and one of the AI's can find horses / metal in some city and everything can backfire.

Taking 1 AI out with a turn 20-25 quechua rush is the best way I've found to get a huge headstart. I'm surprised you didn't opt for that, but I'll sit back and see what you manage to do with this game.

It's marathon. Quechua is even more cheese on marathon when they have triple speed.

[happyturtle]

Originally Posted by Choggy

Did the Americans and the Indians have a mutual 'ooh shiny!' moment with their settlement of their second cities? And are they at WHEOOHRN with you already?!

No, that would be war, not WHEOOHRN. Worker stealing.

[WastinTime]

Originally Posted by T-hawk

I'm not sure about the impact of high sea level, if the map creates more tiny islands or gets larger areas of just water with no land. But high sea level will also reduce iMax further so it might be the right call.

Certainly on Small and Tiny maps 'high seas' was correct. I looked at some test maps on Standard. It still tends to create galley-reachable land.

Originally Posted by Tristan_C

if this match is meant to push and relent against the land limit while stacking up population, what do you do at the end? "Seize Conquest from the jaws of Domination" by capping the entire last half of the map in one turn?

That would be ideal. In my Small size game, I didn't bother with much of an army, so I left a couple AI cities. The thing is, you don't get the extra points for all the land. You have to own the land for 20 turns before it's added to score. We'll see if I have the patience for that final push.

Originally Posted by GKey

Seriously? You beeline Pottery rather then go for early religion?

I'm not really beelining Pottery, I'm going straight to Math so I can Oracle Currency ASAP. I lost the Oracle in my test game on turns 124 and 99! If I were to pop AH free, I could probably skip Wheel/pottery and go straight to Writing, but roads are nice, so maybe just skip pottery.

On my previous Small size game it was easy to conquer an early religion. Soon we'll see how my luck turned out on a Standard map.

[LowtherCastle]

Good luck, WastinTime!!! May your map have millions of islands!

In the spirit of guessing your strategy, here are my thoughts:

1. SIP. Off-river, so you don't care about a levee in your capital. Maybe that's too late in the game or never, for your strategy. Or maybe you figure you can just move the capital since HC gets it cheaper. Only 6 fps, so you don't seem to be counting so heavily on a Bureau-Oxford city for your research.

2. Lots of early wonders, including the Pyramids. This is an indicator you're planning to run a lot of golden ages, so maybe you're planning to have separate Prophet and GE farms. Or maybe one or two wonder cities that produce GPs even when not running CS.

3. Failed gold. No marble yet, but since you made it to T150, I'm guessing it turns up. You're probably planning on using a lot of failed gold to finance your research. Great Merchants complement this but to many might cut into your golden ages and they take a while to develop.

4. Worldwrap. You don't specify worldwrap but I'm assuming you're planning to spam settlers to islands as fast as you can after completing the GLH. So the question is, flat for 33% cheaper distance maintenance or cylindrical for the eventual circumnavigation? I assume your second "secret" is flat. ;-) Better to save coins now on distance maintenance than coins later on fewer galleons in your chains. But I'm guessing, because I've never tested the differences.

5. Opponents. Looks like you avoided protective AIs (the two from England are Lizzy and Vickie, right?). Also, you picked AIs that don't have early UUs, except for Persia, and ones that research and trade relatively well (so I'm guessing the Persian is Darius?). One interesting detail is that the only one you picked who starts with TW is Mansa, so a variant on your delayed Quechua rush might be to select more AIs starting with TW for more roads. In funk-you mode, you could regen maps with financial AIs nearby and play maps with road-builders nearby. Btw, is there anything to the wive's tales that how you line up the AIs when creating the game affects where they're located on the map in relation to you?

6. Arid. Does arid also have more gold tiles on average? Fps take longer to cottage but provide 50% more food than grass and take less time to cottage than jungle grass. Pure speculation, but maybe they provide AIs with more coins but fewer hammers, which translates to faster research and slower rex to islands, both of which enhance your strategy. Another question might be, what are the tendencies of AIs wrt to fp tiles? Are they more likely to cottage fp than grass tiles? It would be interesting to compare AI late-game research rates on arid versus temperate or tropical.

7. Economy. Your focus is on an improved economy. I assume that means more coins to finance faster island REX. It probably also includes more gold. Another possibility is that you simply plan to get to Sushi faster, using an SP, but I think you still need a lot of coins.

[Habitus]

All AIs get The Wheel as a added tech on Deity thou to you only need to pick TW starting Civs on IMM and below

[LowtherCastle]

Originally Posted by Habitus

All AIs get The Wheel as a added tech on Deity thou to you only need to pick TW starting Civs on IMM and below

Right. Meforgets that... So, then the strategy might be to add a couple of civs that don't start with a useful worker tech (hunting, myst).

[Htadus]

It is nice of you to let the AI found you more cities by delaying the attack. Worker steal give the AI the incentive to build more workers. Very nice. You are going to catch them with their expansion pants down. Do Deity AI have Granaries and other buildings built by T30's?

[WastinTime]

Originally Posted by LowtherCastle

1. SIP. Off-river, so you don't care about a levee in your capital. Maybe that's too late in the game or never, for your strategy. Or maybe you figure you can just move the capital since HC gets it cheaper.

Levee was too late in the tech tree for my Small map game, but I'm not so sure about that tech strategy. I'm thinking of going farther up the tree this time. I will miss having a levee.

I've always thought about moving the capital, but it never happens.

2. Lots of early wonders, including the Pyramids. This is an indicator you're planning to run a lot of golden ages, so maybe you're planning to have separate Prophet and GE farms. Or maybe one or two wonder cities that produce GPs even when not running CS.

I want those wonders mainly for their effect. Getting GP and chaining golden ages is something I try to do, but sadly I don't plan it carefully enough.

3. Failed gold. No marble yet, but since you made it to T150, I'm guessing it turns up. You're probably planning on using a lot of failed gold

Fail gold is another relatively new trick. I've only used it this past year, but not in the rest of my civ career. As I've been reviewing my game, I was happy to see that I did use that on Stonehenge. I honestly don't remember if marble showed up yet though.

4. Worldwrap. I assume your second "secret" is flat. ;-)

Maybe that is a good secret strategy, but it's not mine. I don't think you even have a choice on Big & Small. If you did, I would choose toroidal. That is my "secret" for archipelago maps.

5. Opponents. Looks like you avoided protective AIs (the two from England are Lizzy and Vickie, right?). Also, you picked AIs that don't have early UUs, except for Persia, and ones that research and trade relatively well (so I'm guessing the Persian is Darius?).

Correct. I pick the friendly, non-pro, non-cre, non-agg. I have not used a "meat shield" strategy in the past because on a Small map, you kill most AI off and you want friendlys leftover.

Btw, is there anything to the wive's tales that how you line up the AIs when creating the game affects where they're located on the map in relation to you?

no, I've only had luck with that on an Oasis map. They alternate North/south.

6. Arid. Does arid also have more gold tiles on average? Fps take longer to cottage but provide 50% more food than grass and take less time to cottage than jungle grass. Pure speculation, but maybe they provide AIs with more coins but fewer hammers, which translates to faster research and slower rex to islands, both of which enhance your strategy. Another question might be, what are the tendencies of AIs wrt to fp tiles? Are they more likely to cottage fp than grass tiles? It would be interesting to compare AI late-game research rates on arid versus temperate or tropical.

Great food for thought, but I don't know.

7. Economy. Your focus is on an improved economy. I assume that means more coins to finance faster island REX. It probably also includes more gold. Another possibility is that you simply plan to get to Sushi faster, using an SP, but I think you still need a lot of coins.

My goal when I started this game was super-fast sushi. But I'm at a crossroads. Once I catch everyone up on where I am now. I need to decide if I should change to a more military/expansion plan, or stick with early sushi.

Originally Posted by Htadus

It is nice of you to let the AI found you more cities by delaying the attack. Worker steal give the AI the incentive to build more workers. Very nice. You are going to catch them with their expansion pants down. Do Deity AI have Granaries and other buildings built by T30's?

They won't have granaries.

[WastinTime]

Turn 30 - 58



I raze my first conquered city. Something I never would have considered before re-thinking the rush.

Look, that worker by Washington is building a pasture(horses)! Good thing I went for America first. I think I will let him finish that work before I take Washington.

I chose to start with America and swing my army west and then south. It seems like there is a desert to the east, so that is the most efficient troop movements.

Asoka is next, and then England.

I've noted a few "bad luck" items like the AI not settling my gold, but there is actually a lot of good luck going on here. Mansa is not mixed up in my attack plan. None of the cities so far are on hills! and that non-hill luck continues. Hills make a huge difference, especially this early before promotions.

[Killroyan]

So if I understand correctly it is even good to have so many AI close? I would think that it is an advantage but you are going to quecha rush all of them? Can you explain a little more why this is so good?

BTW what an awfull lot of desert to the east. And still you are going to score 5 mil? Just insane.

[LowtherCastle]

As I understand the HOF rules, for Big and Small, worldwrap can be all three: flat, cylindrical, and toroidal. Torioidal has 2x the distance maintenance cost of flat, with cylindrical halfway between.

I suspect arid might tend to have fewer AI hill cities also, although this is a luck factor. Certainly AI cities in fp areas, like Asoka, are unlikely to be on hills.

I'm curious how you'll deal with so little food in Cuzco. I suppose it's not important if you're not planning to cottage it much.

[WastinTime]

Originally Posted by Killroyan

So if I understand correctly it is even good to have so many AI close? I would think that it is an advantage but you are going to quecha rush all of them? Can you explain a little more why this is so good?

BTW what an awfull lot of desert to the east. And still you are going to score 5 mil? Just insane.

Close AI...yes. That is another great thing about this map. I end up with 4 very close AI. That means they will get conquered faster, roads connect them easier, and, most importantly, distance maintenance is low.

I don't want to settle the mainland. just the coast and the islands. Letting the AI have a bunch of zero-food desert is perfect for score. Sadly, I will have to own the northwest desert.

Originally Posted by LowtherCastle

As I understand the HOF rules, for Big and Small, worldwrap can be all three: flat, cylindrical, and toroidal. Torioidal has 2x the distance maintenance cost of flat, with cylindrical halfway between.

I thought Worldwrap was not an available option for B&S. I just checked and I was only able to see Worldwrap on GlobalHighlands. It wasn't even available on Arch maps anymore. Do I have a bug? or did Buffy change which maps are allowed to set worldwrap?

I'm curious how you'll deal with so little food in Cuzco. I suppose it's not important if you're not planning to cottage it much.

6 FPs and a grass-cow is plenty of food I think.

[shakabrade]

WastinTime,

What made you decide against 6 AI and 64% domination limit in favor of 10 and 56%? 14% more land can roughly translate to almost the same amount of extra population. Also, the more AIs there are, the less extra sea resource, cause all of them need at least one for themselves before willing to trade. I am sure you had good reasons, but I'd like to hear them. Is that because of tech pace and proximity? Because of faster expansion? How did you know it is better than 64% land limit?

I thought Worldwrap was not an available option for B&S. I just checked and I was only able to see Worldwrap on GlobalHighlands. It wasn't even available on Arch maps anymore. Do I have a bug? or did Buffy change which maps are allowed to set worldwrap?

I have BUFFY and you cannot pick worldwrap on B&S, but it is available on Archipelago, contrary to what you said. It is also available on Pangaea and on almost every other map.