Guerilla

Simna · Mar 17, 2003, 06:43 AM

Hej!

Is the only reason with Guerilla to be able to upgrade my Medieval Infantry?

Lev väl.
Simna

TheNiceOne · Mar 17, 2003, 06:52 AM

Yes .... unless you or the AI happens not to have access to rubber, in which the guerrilla can be the saviour.

Dark Yoda · Mar 19, 2003, 01:10 PM

guerilla's are pretty rubbish IMHO. it's a novelty at first but are only useful as theniceone says if you don't have rubber, and if you don't you should be out looking for some.

Ram · Mar 19, 2003, 02:09 PM

Guerilla should be able to move at each square as a road, and maybe even have an hidden nationality - that way they will be effective.

Simna · Mar 20, 2003, 05:25 AM

Hej Ram!

Your ideas about Guerilla are superb. Both of them.
But you should be able by using a spy (in the right capital, naturally) to figure out the nationality of the attacking Guerilla.

Lev väl.
Simna

Ram · Mar 20, 2003, 09:22 AM

Right, I liked that one

Now all we need is the devs to look at this thread and we're done...

Louis XXIV · Mar 20, 2003, 12:45 PM

Guerrilla is just to prevent the AI from attacking with Lonbowman when they don't have resources.

I think they should have Hidden Nationality and possibly Invisibility (although, if I'm not mistaken, will be bad against the AI, as it can see them and will try to destroy them).

Sukenis · Mar 20, 2003, 01:06 PM

If I am remembering correctly, the originally had hidden nationality, but the AI had issues with it. Either they knew who it belonged to could not use them right themsleves or something to the like. Due to this the makers pulled out of hiding the nationality.

edit spelling

Ram · Mar 20, 2003, 01:24 PM

They should fix this... it's just not right like this!

Louis XXIV · Mar 20, 2003, 02:39 PM

I beleive that the AI attacks Hidden Nationality units with out mercy, or plan.

I'm not sure how they handle them (How do they do with Privateers?)

I hope they can handle them OK, without knowing who sent them, because I would want to change them.

MummyMan · Mar 20, 2003, 03:33 PM

I was just about to post a topic about guerillas and hidden nationality, thanks for breaking it in! I made them hidden nationality and it is soooooo much fun. 6/6/1 adm. I haven't tested the all terrain as roads but i have tested them as hidden nat.. They can take over cities, and use them in the name of their creator. What's even more interesting is that the AI uses them as well, and destroy cities with them (i haven't seen them capture). I have NEVER seen an AI privateer, though people say they've seen them. The added hidden nat. is just the cure for the late industrial and early modern boredom when everything has been built and the only things to do are build wealth or declare war. On emperor, you can take quite a few cities that are defended with rifleman and some that are defended by 1 or two infantry. The AI will attack any guerilla it sees, so its a big battle and not lacking any excitement. But there can be a few guidlines to follow if you have a conscience. I admit, capturing cities is fairly unreal, so you may want to just raze them in the name or fairness. Second, escorting a stack of guerillas with say a worker would be an easy way to secure the safety of them. This however is a little unfair as well. But i find you have to play how you want to play, what you think is fair and fun. And i do believe that this is realistic. After all, they are guerillas. What's more interesting is something i heard in a discussion in my Modern European History class. We were comparing the current war with world war one, and how in world war one, there were defined nations that fought and their defined armies. But today, it seems that if a country wants to harm another country like the United States, they could never fly the colors of their nation, in fear of being destroyed. So it seems that terrorist acts are the only viable way of harming a country. This is like using guerillas in Civ3, you dare not attack openly, in fear of retaliation and war wariness, so you use guerillas. They aren't up to par with the forces of standard armies, but can do damage and are usually funded by or aided by willing political groups or terrorist groups. So it seems logical for guerillas to have a hidden nationality. As far as the game being balanced, that's for you to judge and for you to carry out. You can mod the game so that impis have 80 movement, 80 attack and defense and just wipe everybody out if you want, but it'll be unbalanced and hell, same with guerillas, you just have to decide how far is too far. Ok, i'm done talking, i'll let others react to this.

Louis XXIV · Mar 20, 2003, 08:04 PM

So you're telling me that you can attack a city and capture it. The AI will treat the city as if it's your city and never assume anything?

Does the AI care about culture capturing? (sorry about that almost off-topic question, but they should treat it the same. Their city just happens to be yours now)

I still think this is needed, although all those cheap tricks are, well, cheap tricks.

Can't help that (although, couldn't you do the same with Privateers).

DiamondzAndGunz · Mar 20, 2003, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
Does the AI care about culture capturing?

Culture flipping, you mean? Well, it slightly lowers their attitude towards you if you accept the city. Not too much though, just one point or so. If you decline to accept the city, it slightly raises their attitude towards you.

Louis XXIV · Mar 20, 2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz

Culture flipping, you mean?

My bad, I often call it both.

Quote:

Well, it slightly lowers their attitude towards you if you accept the city. Not too much though, just one point or so. If you decline to accept the city, it slightly raises their attitude towards you.

Good to know but, unfortunately it won't help.
Perhaps they should be treated like Barabarians that you control (can only sack cities).

At least, if we had a MP game with this, that a person can figure this out.

If the AI raises cities, they play correctly. I wish people would too.

Simna · Mar 21, 2003, 05:11 AM

Hej!

If not hidden nationality, what about if they were invisible until they attack + a movement of 2.

Lev väl.
Simna

The Last Conformist · Mar 21, 2003, 07:58 AM

As they are now, they're not even much good for civs lacking Rubber; Riflemen are better defenders since they cost less, and if you get Rubber they'll upgrade all the way to Mech Infantry, whereas the Guerillas represent the end of an upgrade path, and Cav are better attackers since they have higher movement, retreat ability and also cost less than Guerilla. Only if you lacked not only Rubber but also Horses and/or Saltpeter, you'd want them, since they'd be your best attackers then. So, in their present incarnation, Guerillas are in the great majority of cases only good as an upgrade for Medieval Infantry and Longbowmen.

BTW, for some reason, my city governors keep wanting to build Guerilla in cities that're able to build Infantry. Anyone know what causes this ridiculous behaviour?

Louis XXIV · Mar 21, 2003, 08:23 AM

Riflemen are defensive units. The AI don't want to attack with them. If you need an offensive unit, Guerrillas are their choice over Riflemen.

Globetrotter · Mar 21, 2003, 08:27 AM

Louis, i actually saw the Greek and the French army order full attacks with Riflemen and Infantry against each others...
Imagine, a French vet rifleman did actually attack kill a fortified Greek vet Infantry.
I was amazed!

The Last Conformist · Mar 21, 2003, 08:29 AM

But I'm speaking of cities that have Rubber, and thus can build Infantry which is also flagged as an offensive unit, and has the same attack as Guerilla.

Globetrotter · Mar 21, 2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
BTW, for some reason, my city governors keep wanting to build Guerilla in cities that're able to build Infantry. Anyone know what causes this ridiculous behaviour?

Same as the screenshot where the advisors suggests to build musketmen when you already have riflemen

Mar 17, 2003, 06:43 AM	#1
Simna Chieftain Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Skåne, Sweden Posts: 42	Guerilla Hej! Is the only reason with Guerilla to be able to upgrade my Medieval Infantry? Lev väl. Simna

Mar 20, 2003, 12:45 PM	#7
Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 11,775	Guerrilla is just to prevent the AI from attacking with Lonbowman when they don't have resources. I think they should have Hidden Nationality and possibly Invisibility (although, if I'm not mistaken, will be bad against the AI, as it can see them and will try to destroy them). __________________ Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Ben Franklin

Mar 20, 2003, 01:06 PM	#8
Sukenis the J'BOOtian Warlord Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 461	If I am remembering correctly, the originally had hidden nationality, but the AI had issues with it. Either they knew who it belonged to could not use them right themsleves or something to the like. Due to this the makers pulled out of hiding the nationality. edit spelling __________________ Vizzini: You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is: "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." But, only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!"

Mar 20, 2003, 02:39 PM	#10
Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 11,775	I beleive that the AI attacks Hidden Nationality units with out mercy, or plan. I'm not sure how they handle them (How do they do with Privateers?) I hope they can handle them OK, without knowing who sent them, because I would want to change them. __________________ Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Ben Franklin

Mar 20, 2003, 08:04 PM	#12
Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 11,775	So you're telling me that you can attack a city and capture it. The AI will treat the city as if it's your city and never assume anything? Does the AI care about culture capturing? (sorry about that almost off-topic question, but they should treat it the same. Their city just happens to be yours now) I still think this is needed, although all those cheap tricks are, well, cheap tricks. Can't help that (although, couldn't you do the same with Privateers). __________________ Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Ben Franklin

Mar 17, 2003, 06:52 AM	#2
TheNiceOne Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 1,372	Yes .... unless you or the AI happens not to have access to rubber, in which the guerrilla can be the saviour.

Mar 19, 2003, 01:10 PM	#3
Dark Yoda Student Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On the top floor of my halls. Posts: 82	guerilla's are pretty rubbish IMHO. it's a novelty at first but are only useful as theniceone says if you don't have rubber, and if you don't you should be out looking for some.

Mar 19, 2003, 02:09 PM	#4
Ram The Navigator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 104	Guerilla should be able to move at each square as a road, and maybe even have an hidden nationality - that way they will be effective.

Mar 20, 2003, 05:25 AM	#5
Simna Chieftain Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Skåne, Sweden Posts: 42	Hej Ram! Your ideas about Guerilla are superb. Both of them. But you should be able by using a spy (in the right capital, naturally) to figure out the nationality of the attacking Guerilla. Lev väl. Simna

Mar 20, 2003, 09:22 AM	#6
Ram The Navigator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 104	Right, I liked that one Now all we need is the devs to look at this thread and we're done...

Mar 20, 2003, 01:24 PM	#9
Ram The Navigator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 104	They should fix this... it's just not right like this!

Mar 20, 2003, 03:33 PM	#11
MummyMan Emperor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Annapolis, Maryland Posts: 1,094	I was just about to post a topic about guerillas and hidden nationality, thanks for breaking it in! I made them hidden nationality and it is soooooo much fun. 6/6/1 adm. I haven't tested the all terrain as roads but i have tested them as hidden nat.. They can take over cities, and use them in the name of their creator. What's even more interesting is that the AI uses them as well, and destroy cities with them (i haven't seen them capture). I have NEVER seen an AI privateer, though people say they've seen them. The added hidden nat. is just the cure for the late industrial and early modern boredom when everything has been built and the only things to do are build wealth or declare war. On emperor, you can take quite a few cities that are defended with rifleman and some that are defended by 1 or two infantry. The AI will attack any guerilla it sees, so its a big battle and not lacking any excitement. But there can be a few guidlines to follow if you have a conscience. I admit, capturing cities is fairly unreal, so you may want to just raze them in the name or fairness. Second, escorting a stack of guerillas with say a worker would be an easy way to secure the safety of them. This however is a little unfair as well. But i find you have to play how you want to play, what you think is fair and fun. And i do believe that this is realistic. After all, they are guerillas. What's more interesting is something i heard in a discussion in my Modern European History class. We were comparing the current war with world war one, and how in world war one, there were defined nations that fought and their defined armies. But today, it seems that if a country wants to harm another country like the United States, they could never fly the colors of their nation, in fear of being destroyed. So it seems that terrorist acts are the only viable way of harming a country. This is like using guerillas in Civ3, you dare not attack openly, in fear of retaliation and war wariness, so you use guerillas. They aren't up to par with the forces of standard armies, but can do damage and are usually funded by or aided by willing political groups or terrorist groups. So it seems logical for guerillas to have a hidden nationality. As far as the game being balanced, that's for you to judge and for you to carry out. You can mod the game so that impis have 80 movement, 80 attack and defense and just wipe everybody out if you want, but it'll be unbalanced and hell, same with guerillas, you just have to decide how far is too far. Ok, i'm done talking, i'll let others react to this.

Mar 21, 2003, 05:11 AM	#15
Simna Chieftain Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Skåne, Sweden Posts: 42	Hej! If not hidden nationality, what about if they were invisible until they attack + a movement of 2. Lev väl. Simna

Mar 21, 2003, 07:58 AM	#16
The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Not on your side Posts: 27,780	As they are now, they're not even much good for civs lacking Rubber; Riflemen are better defenders since they cost less, and if you get Rubber they'll upgrade all the way to Mech Infantry, whereas the Guerillas represent the end of an upgrade path, and Cav are better attackers since they have higher movement, retreat ability and also cost less than Guerilla. Only if you lacked not only Rubber but also Horses and/or Saltpeter, you'd want them, since they'd be your best attackers then. So, in their present incarnation, Guerillas are in the great majority of cases only good as an upgrade for Medieval Infantry and Longbowmen. BTW, for some reason, my city governors keep wanting to build Guerilla in cities that're able to build Infantry. Anyone know what causes this ridiculous behaviour? __________________ Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else? CivIII stuff: Hexette (16x16 World Map), The Classic Maya Scenario, Resource gfx, Other gfx, ACW C3C

Mar 21, 2003, 08:23 AM	#17
Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 11,775	Riflemen are defensive units. The AI don't want to attack with them. If you need an offensive unit, Guerrillas are their choice over Riflemen. __________________ Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Ben Franklin

Mar 21, 2003, 08:27 AM	#18
Globetrotter ...wherever i may roam... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: ...where I lay my head is home... Posts: 962	Louis, i actually saw the Greek and the French army order full attacks with Riflemen and Infantry against each others... Imagine, a French vet rifleman did actually attack kill a fortified Greek vet Infantry. I was amazed! __________________ ...and with dust in throat I crave only knowledge will I save to the game you stay a slave... BiBikoh

Mar 21, 2003, 08:29 AM	#19
The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Not on your side Posts: 27,780	But I'm speaking of cities that have Rubber, and thus can build Infantry which is also flagged as an offensive unit, and has the same attack as Guerilla. __________________ Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else? CivIII stuff: Hexette (16x16 World Map), The Classic Maya Scenario, Resource gfx, Other gfx, ACW C3C

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