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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:32 PM   #1
Tyrvos
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Axeman Speculation

With the axeman it looks like it could be a new barbarian unit, a new unit in the tech tree, or possibly a UU of a new faction and they made it a barbarian here just for kicks?

The thing I find interesting is that the swordsmen next to the axemen have been damaged but not the axemen. Maybe they are a throwing axeman? It's hard for me to identify the character model but it looks like they could be either a native american unit (huron?) or possibly african? Unluckily, these are weak points in my historical knowledge but I've read there were tribes that used throwing axes often from either choice.

I haven't seen a thread address the axeman specifically, so I apologize if this is a repeat.

Spoiler:



Looks like multiple conlusions from others on this thread:
1) A Barbarian replacement for archers.
2) An Alqonquian/Shawnee/Cherokee UU with possibly Tecumseh as their leader. Would be kind of like how they combined the Celtic tribes with Boudicca as the leader. Cherokee could be in the Civil War scenario so it could be likely.
3) Other tribes like Powhatan or Apache.

All of these seem possible. We need more over analyzing!

Last edited by Tyrvos; Mar 28, 2013 at 08:58 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:38 PM   #2
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You might want to check out this thread, from post 155 onwards:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...=491401&page=8
The remaining 8 pages mostly discuss this unit.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:40 PM   #3
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It's better to discuss it in this thread. It looks like a Tomahawk, so I'd argue it's a Barbarian unit that replaces an Archer.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:42 PM   #4
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: that unit icon is a tomahawk.

There's also only ten individuals in that group, compared to the twelve you see in most, though it doesn't appear to be wounded.

Some of you may be aware of my crackpot theory I argued for on another thread. To be brief, I speculated that it might be some sort of new unique unit for an as-yet-to-be-revealed civilization, a unique unit that utilizes a new "privateer" system whereby it disguises itself as a barbarian unit in order to sabotage the expansion of rivals through the capture of rival settlers, missionaries, Great People, trade caravans, and archaeologists, and may additionally wreak havoc to the infrastructure of another civilization through wanton pillaging of road networks, luxury tiles, and strategic resources.

The obvious downside to this? The unit would be targeted mercilessly by other players, AI, and CSs. Killing it would not declare war. Essentially, it would be a poor idea to try and build an army of these, as they'd be sniped at every opportunity. Better for careful, systematic application.

Flame me if you will for my baseless speculation and rambling imagination, but I only ask that ye who is without unwarranted speculation cast the first stone.
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Last edited by ferretbacon; Mar 28, 2013 at 06:46 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis XXIV View Post
It's better to discuss it in this thread. It looks like a Tomahawk, so I'd argue it's a Barbarian unit that replaces an Archer.
I just think it would be odd to give them the tomahawk symbol specifically and the Native Americanesque character model just to be a barbarian unit. But if it is a barbarian unit, I think you are right that it would replace the archer.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:57 PM   #6
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It just occurred to me - what if it wasn't the unit itself that had the special privateer ability, but the entire civ, as a UA, had some sort of ability like that?

Though personally that's still a bit farfetched either way in my opinion.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that either 1) it's from the Civil War scenario and just inserted in nonsensically; 2) it IS a UU, but it doesn't have a barbarian/privateer special ability and the devs just had it as a barbarian unit in the artificial set-up.


From what we discussed in the other thread, the unit is clearly native american but from the eastern part, and perhaps even more so the northeast. This would lead us to suspect that there could be a northeastern native american civ - but we already have the Iroqouis there. It could be for another eastern native american civ. The Cherokee are a favorite dark horse civ among some here, though to my knowledge the tomahawk was not really used among the southeastern native americans. The tomahawk was used by the Powhatan of Pocahontas fame, though, so it might indicate a Pocahontas-led civilization (though frankly I find that idea as ludricous as the Joan of Arc-led France in Civ III - though very marketable)
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretbacon View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again: that unit icon is a tomahawk.

There's also only ten individuals in that group, compared to the twelve you see in most, though it doesn't appear to be wounded.

Some of you may be aware of my crackpot theory I argued for on another thread. To be brief, I speculated that it might be some sort of new unique unit for an as-yet-to-be-revealed civilization, a unique unit that utilizes a new "privateer" system whereby it disguises itself as a barbarian unit in order to sabotage the expansion of rivals through the capture of rival settlers, missionaries, Great People, trade caravans, and archaeologists, and may additionally wreak havoc to the infrastructure of another civilization through wanton pillaging of road networks, luxury tiles, and strategic resources.

The obvious downside to this? The unit would be targeted mercilessly by other players, AI, and CSs. Killing it would not declare war. Essentially, it would be a poor idea to try and build an army of these, as they'd be sniped at every opportunity. Better for careful, systematic application.

Flame me if you will for my baseless speculation and rambling imagination, but I only ask that ye who is without unwarranted speculation cast the first stone.
That would be a cool idea. Wouldn't the whole privateer system be ruined by the fact it has a tomahawk symbol though, so you could tell where it came from? If you are right though, I think it would be completely fun, creative, and awesome.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 06:58 PM   #8
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The color scheme looks almost identical to the current color scheme for barbarian units. So I tend to lean towards the unit being a barb, perhaps they've diversified the times of barb units?
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrvos View Post
That would be a cool idea. Wouldn't the whole privateer system be ruined by the fact it has a tomahawk symbol though, so you could tell where it came from? If you are right though, I think it would be completely fun, creative, and awesome.
Glad you asked.

I postulated that the unit would appear as a generic barbarian unit to other civilizations and as the UU only to the player controlling it. For instance, in the screenshot above, that tomahawk wielding unit would look like a barbarian Brute to that Assyrian player.

It wouldn't be totally out of the question that a new unit(s) might have been added to the game, a class of "privateer" units if you will. If that were the case, we might be seeing a unique derivative of that new class.

Then again that's a staged screenshot and who knows what's actually going on. The only thing I can say with certainty is that unit there is something we haven't seen before.

@cybrxkhan
Despite zooming in very close, I am unable to get good detail on it. I still don't think it looks like a member of any western or southwestern tribe, such as the Pueblo would have been, or the Apache, Sioux, Comanche, et al. would be. I don't know why Firaxis would include another northeastern tribe, but that's what it most closely resembles.
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Last edited by ferretbacon; Mar 28, 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:05 PM   #10
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Maybe it is a Native American UU afterall!

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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrxkhan View Post
It just occurred to me - what if it wasn't the unit itself that had the special privateer ability, but the entire civ, as a UA, had some sort of ability like that?

Though personally that's still a bit farfetched either way in my opinion.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that either 1) it's from the Civil War scenario and just inserted in nonsensically; 2) it IS a UU, but it doesn't have a barbarian/privateer special ability and the devs just had it as a barbarian unit in the artificial set-up.


From what we discussed in the other thread, the unit is clearly native american but from the eastern part, and perhaps even more so the northeast. This would lead us to suspect that there could be a northeastern native american civ - but we already have the Iroqouis there. It could be for another eastern native american civ. The Cherokee are a favorite dark horse civ among some here, though to my knowledge the tomahawk was not really used among the southeastern native americans. The tomahawk was used by the Powhatan of Pocahontas fame, though, so it might indicate a Pocahontas-led civilization (though frankly I find that idea as ludricous as the Joan of Arc-led France in Civ III - though very marketable)
The image confused me because my initial impression was that it looked like Hiawatha in game, so I'm thinking you are right on that. I'm trying to think of any other big tribes in New England but the closest I get other than Powhatan are Huron, which I'm pretty sure were more Michigan and north of that. There are ones like Nipmuc and Penobscot around here in New England, but I really doubt it could be any like those.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:08 PM   #12
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Which tribes would fit that style of dress, that hairstyle, and wield a tomahawk? Are there any candidates diverse enough from the Iroquois?
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:12 PM   #13
Tyrvos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferretbacon View Post
Glad you asked.

I postulated that the unit would appear as a generic barbarian unit to other civilizations and as the UU only to the player controlling it. For instance, in the screenshot above, that tomahawk wielding unit would look like a barbarian Brute to that Assyrian player.

It wouldn't be totally out of the question that a new unit(s) might have been added to the game, a class of "privateer" units if you will. If that were the case, we might be seeing a unique derivative of that new class.

Then again that's a staged screenshot and who knows what's actually going on. The only thing I can say with certainty is that unit there is something we haven't seen before.
Ok, that makes it even better. I could also see that with the Ottoman's Barbary Coast UA, since they used a 3rd party for looting and all that. I give you credit for that even if it isn't right in the end, that would be very interesting gameplay.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by wilbeard View Post
Which tribes would fit that style of dress, that hairstyle, and wield a tomahawk? Are there any candidates diverse enough from the Iroquois?
My limited search resulted in Pawnee, who apparently wore the "mohawk" more often than Iroquois.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:36 PM   #15
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Shawnee w/ Tecumseh as leader. It makes sense!

google "shawnee warrior"



http://stemmieimprese.it/wp-content/...ee-warrior.jpg
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:40 PM   #16
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If that is a native american UU, i would bet the civ it's for is the Algonquin. At a push it could be the Powhatan, but come on would they REALLY have Pocahuntas as a leader?
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:40 PM   #17
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Virtually all tribes in the northeast and quite possibly the Atlantic seaboard used them. The word is a Powhattan word, which means it is an Algonquin word. But that could include the Cherokee among many others.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrxkhan View Post
It just occurred to me - what if it wasn't the unit itself that had the special privateer ability, but the entire civ, as a UA, had some sort of ability like that?

Though personally that's still a bit farfetched either way in my opinion.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that either 1) it's from the Civil War scenario and just inserted in nonsensically; 2) it IS a UU, but it doesn't have a barbarian/privateer special ability and the devs just had it as a barbarian unit in the artificial set-up.


From what we discussed in the other thread, the unit is clearly native american but from the eastern part, and perhaps even more so the northeast. This would lead us to suspect that there could be a northeastern native american civ - but we already have the Iroqouis there. It could be for another eastern native american civ. The Cherokee are a favorite dark horse civ among some here, though to my knowledge the tomahawk was not really used among the southeastern native americans. The tomahawk was used by the Powhatan of Pocahontas fame, though, so it might indicate a Pocahontas-led civilization (though frankly I find that idea as ludricous as the Joan of Arc-led France in Civ III - though very marketable)
No! Please let it be untrue! And Pocahontas wasn't even her real name! (It was Matoaka)
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MaximusK View Post
Shawnee w/ Tecumseh as leader. It makes sense!

google "shawnee warrior"



http://stemmieimprese.it/wp-content/...ee-warrior.jpg
You know, I had considered the Shawnee under Tecumseh (he's certainly Civ Leader material), but had dismissed them.

Seeing that photo makes me think it's a possibility though.
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Old Mar 28, 2013, 07:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusK View Post
Shawnee w/ Tecumseh as leader. It makes sense!

google "shawnee warrior"



http://stemmieimprese.it/wp-content/...ee-warrior.jpg
Great find. According to wikipedia they were "mound-builders", which I guess gives them potential for a distinctive UB. Tecumseh is certainly an iconic leader, also.
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