Need Help Beating King

5/6/2013

I have started a new game on Emperor level the other day, and I'm currently doing well. I played again as Rome, with continents, and everything else standard. Once again I have used Traditions's 4 city opening strategy. I have built my 4 cities, established my religion, and completed the National College. I had raised a powerful army of archers, with a couple horsemen and spearmen, and was able to take some of China's cities and it's capital. Right night, the other known civs are furious with me, and have declared war. I am assuming on Emperor, the other civs are going to be a lot more aggressive, and more likely to hate me; especially if I'm an aggressor.

Right now, I'm trying to b-line to education, so I can construct universities in my cities. I have completed the tradition social policy tree, what would be a good recommendation for another tree to pursue? Last time commerce was pretty helpful, but this time, I'm thinking of pursuing Patronage, so I can have a better shot at CS allies.

I will post some pics when I get home.

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King:Beaten

I recently had a successful game on King difficulty, winning with a diplomatic victory. However, I seem to be having troubling getting another decent game off the ground. I like to play as Rome (obviously), on continents, with everything else standard. Since I like to keep a small but tall empire (with many puppets), I tend to strive for Tradition initially. I start with producing a scout, while my first warrior explores as well. I then research techs that help me to exploit the luxuries that surround me, during which, I build a worker. I then build a granary, and eventually a library to help with research. While I do this, I purchase warriors or spearmen. I then make a b-line to ironworking, trying to unlock my UU of legionaries. Ideally, at this point, I have amassed an army of legionaries, and ballistas, ready to conquer my neighbors. But that just doesn't seem to be working anymore. Before I can get to amass my classical age army, I am hopelessly behind my rivals. Moreover, during this process, I am susceptible to being conquered by a war-like civ.
I have experimented with honor, but with little success or difference in the outcome.
Could someone help critique this approach? I have beaten King before, but I would like to make a the new normal when I play.

I should also add, I tend to build my second city near a iron resource. perhaps, I am building them too late into the game? the AI tends to have 2 or 3 cities by this point.

I find it hard to rush with Rome's UUs. It's hard to get an effective army up with them in time, plus I don't think Ballistae are that great anyway, Legions are nice but Swords aren't that great to begin with. Maybe someone here has a good strategy for playing an offensive Rome.

I do love me some Rome, but for me it's about that 25% building production boost... have you read Tabarnak's 4 city tradition opening guide? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468487 There are a ton of great tips in there.

Don't worry about if your 2nd or 3rd city comes later then the AIs', or if you're behind in research a little. That will definitely happen more on higher difficulties. To me, the important benchmark for early game is, can I get my 4 cities up, with national college built, with education researched by turn 100? I play a slightly different opening that Tabarnak's opening - I build NC first and then expand 3 or more times immediately afterward. But it doesn't matter a lot.

guinsoo said:

I find it hard to rush with Rome's UUs. It's hard to get an effective army up with them in time, plus I don't think Ballistae are that great anyway, Legions are nice but Swords aren't that great to begin with. Maybe someone here has a good strategy for playing an offensive Rome.

I do love me some Rome, but for me it's about that 25% building production boost... have you read Tabarnak's 4 city tradition opening guide? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468487 There are a ton of great tips in there.

Don't worry about if your 2nd or 3rd city comes later then the AIs', or if you're behind in research a little. That will definitely happen more on higher difficulties. To me, the important benchmark for early game is, can I get my 4 cities up, with national college built, with education researched by turn 100? I play a slightly different opening that Tabarnak's opening - I build NC first and then expand 3 or more times immediately afterward. But it doesn't matter a lot.

Click to expand...

I am actually watching the video right now hahaha, thanks

I am going to try this strategy out when I get home from work. Where it leaves off, I would have went over and taken the Korean capital. For my own intents and purposes, perhaps a good strategy for Rome is to capture a neighboring city that has access to iron (unless I already have access to that.) At any rate, this is a good starting platform to take the rest of the continent.

On a side note, I noticed the AI likes to construct composite bowmen as well.

I suggest that you watch a lets play, i enjoyed Light Clerics one very much, for example. It is full of crazy AIs and well, deity, but the basic principles are similar on King.
On the one hand you cannot get as much money from the AI, on the other hand you have it easier with teching and building in comparison.

The aforementioned tradition opening suits your description, and usually you don't need more than 4 high-production cities.

Focusing on ranged units is something i like, you can damage the enemy without taking a hit yourself. you need 1-2 melee units to take the city, and, depending on the size of the enemy army, to block the enemy units.

for war: await the enemy army with your ranged units - if your cities are in range, even the better, kill off his units and go for the cities then.
a good start are 6 bowmen and 1-2 warriors, upgrade the former to composites and go to town.

I find it difficult trying to make use of swordsman/longswordsman early game.

I'd rather build archers and upgrade them to CB and then attack 1 or 2 neighbors if possible. Keep them all alive and they will have nice promotions. While I do this I try to get up Education and then beeline back to Machinery to upgrade my CBs to Xbowman and continue the battles.

I struggle a bit deviating from that path if I'm trying to work in some odd UU off the path.

I'd rather just have horseman/knights for cap'ing cities and picking off the AIs wounded.

Rushing iron cripples your development. I don't usually go down to IW until I have education. On king it shouldn't matter much.. Your UU will still be viable if you rush them after education while your tech lead will materialize/lengthen. Aside from that.. Composites are necessary to conquer.. Just be sure to also get some warriors some xp while you await the tech for upgrade.

guinsoo said:

I don't think Ballistae are that great anyway, Legions are nice but Swords aren't that great to begin with. Maybe someone here has a good strategy for playing an offensive Rome.

Click to expand...

If I play Rome, I skip Legion and get Mathematics quickly. Ballistae are amazing for capping cities, and they of course have a lovely upgrade path all the way into Modern, but they do work best when supported by archers/composites and warriors/pikes for killing and warding off enemy units.

I also believe their UA has been underrated by most in G&K. Production does matter.

I had some hard fought success last night. However, now I'm running into a road block; unhappiness threw a wrench into my war machine. I had captured the capitals of Persia and America, and had occupied or razed some of their other cities. I employed the tactics from Tradition's 4 city opening, by selling my luxuries off to purchase settlers. Other helpful tricks I learned from the video is stealing workers from CS in one turn wars. I also had constructed shrines, and founded a religion, Giulioastrianism. Moreover, I have learned the value of Archers/Composite bowmen/Crossbowmen. They were able to swarm and devastate the enemy and their cities. My wars against Persia and America were hard fought, because of the geographic distance and terrain, which made it a long trek. Nevertheless, I was able to keep spam-producing Legionaries (eventually longswordmen), and Crossbowmen. After capturing Persepolis, creating a citadel outside of New York was a big help. Before I knew it, I had streams of soldiers marching north, and I had eventually captured Washington. Afterwards, America surrendered all but one city, and we signed a peace treaty. Now the problem lies east, with the Huns. They are powerful, and are more or less equal to my strength. I'm currently at the disadvantage of being plauged with unhappiness.

I suppose the solution may be to raze New York and Boston. But I really don't want to because they have some good improvements (i.e. libraries, markets, etc).

Right now I have the military advantage of having upgraded my longswoardmen to musketmen, while the Huns still have long swordmen. Currently they're at war with Persia, trying to occupy the scraps I left them. I know it's only a matter of time before the Huns turn the sword to me, I need to get them first, before it's too late.

Attached are a couple of pics from the game I described.

Your thoughts.

Emperor Giulio said:

I had some hard fought success last night. However, now I'm running into a road block; unhappiness threw a wrench in my war machine. I had capture the capitals of Persia and America, and had occupied or razed some of their other cities. I employed the tactics from Tradition's 4 city opening, by selling my luxuries off to purchase settlers. Other helpful tricks I learned from the video is stealing workers from CS in one turn wars. I also had constructed shrines, and founded a religion, Giulioastrianism. Moreover, I have learned the value of Archers/Composite bowmen/Crossbowmen. They were able to swarm and devastate the enemy and their cities. My wars against Persia and America were hard fought, because of the geographic distance and terrain, which made it a long trek. Nevertheless, I was able to keep spam-producing Legionaries (eventually longswordmen), and Crossbowmen. After capturing Persepolis, creating a citadel outside of New York was a big help. Before I knew it, I had streams of soldiers marching north, and I had eventually captured Washington. Afterwards, America surrendered all but one city, and we signed a peace treaty. Now the problem lies east, with the Huns. They are powerful, and are more or less equal to my strength. I'm currently at the disadvantage of being plauged with unhappiness.

I suppose the solution may be to raze New York and Boston. But I really don't want to because they have some good improvements (i.e. libraries, markets, etc).

Right now I have the military advantage of having upgraded my longswoardmen to musketmen, while the Huns still have long swordmen. Currently they're at war with Persia, trying to occupy the scraps I left them. I know it's only a matter of time before the Huns turn the sword to me, I need to get them first, before it's too late.

Attached are a couple of pics from the game I described.

Your thoughts.

Click to expand...

Some ways of dealing with unhappiness (which doesn't look too bad):

1. Give away 1-2 "junk" cities to an AI (do you have a city north of Washington? Sell/give it to an AI).
2. Sell your Iron and Horse for 45g each then buy some Coliseums.
2a) Or buy some luxuries from AI.

sufficiency said:

Some ways of dealing with unhappiness (which doesn't look too bad):

1. Give away 1-2 "junk" cities to an AI (do you have a city north of Washington? Sell/give it to an AI).
2. Sell your Iron and Horse for 45g each then buy some Coliseums.
2a) Or buy some luxuries from AI.

Click to expand...

Yea, Boston is north of Washington. I am probably going to have to sell it off, but before I do, I'll sell all the improvements for extra gold.

One vital thing that I neglected to mention was that the Huns are currently trading 3 luxuries with me. When I start a war with them, unhappiness will skyrocket again. Hopefully, building happiness producing improvements, and shedding the burden of occupied populations will suffice.

Also, Attila had conquered all of Byzantium. Perhaps liberating a few of their cities would be wise once I've engaged the Huns.

After I capture Attila's Court, I eventually plan to do away with the rest of the civs on the continent once and for all. Afterwards, I'll just focus on developing my empire, and having friendly diplomatic relations with the civs on the other continent.

Spam trading posts in your puppets. Don't fix the farms you've already pillaged. Pillage the farms before you capture cities. You don't want your puppet pop to increase.

Novalia said:

Spam trading posts in your puppets. Don't fix the farms you've already pillaged. Pillage the farms before you capture cities. You don't want your puppet pop to increase.

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For sure, it's usually the backbone of my economy.

I was able to capture Attila's Court; it was one tough shell to crack. It was especially difficult because Attila had constructed Himeji Castle. But once again, my Crossbowmen had pulled through, and turned the tide of the war. Surprisingly, many of my musket men were being killed wholesale by Attila's Trebuchets. Plundering and instant healing kept me going, as well as utilizing the terrain to my advantage. After I had taken Tampa Bay, I had constructed a Citadel right outside of Attila’s Court; this was a HUGE advantage. Afterwards, I signed a peace treaty. I had healed, and was able to coordinate a sizable force for the second war. I saw that Attila was hemorrhaging money after the first war; perhaps he had to disband some of his units during the interwar peace treaty.

Now that I have taken Attila’s Court, I will take the rest of his empire, and finish off America as well. However, my plans for a peaceful passive relationship with the new world must be reconsidered. I have met Siam, and they had just completed their Patronage tree. This has created a contentious situation with my own empire's interests, by attacking my relations with CSs. Therefore, in order to prevent Siam from winning a diplomatic victory, I must plan to deliver a firestorm of ICBMs. I will have to instigate proxy wars against them as well, by befriending their rival civs. Also, I see that Siam is aggressively spreading their religion; I will need to combat them with an inquisition.

Here are some pics and the saved file from my game.

Siam is in second place, but can easily win a diplomatic victory if they build the UN. They are allies with nearly all of the City-States. I will have to commit myself to being a war-monger and conquer each and every one of the CSs. Or I may have to conquer Siam itself, with a huge land invasion. Right now I’m at a pretty decisive crossroads. I would like to hear from some of you on what I should pursue. I am about to unlock another social policy. I can either invest time in Rationalism, getting a huge boost from all of the Trade posts in conquered territory. Or I could pursue Autocracy, and take a more direct military approach. I am big on quality over quantity however, if I get the science bonus, I can have advanced weapons. If I go for autocracy, I will have a much larger and more skilled army.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but your fundamentals need a lot of work. In particular, your research is very, very far behind. I'm guessing that you didn't get the NC up early and you didn't build universities quickly. Also, you need to staff the specialist slots in the universities. Just getting your research up to par will make everything a lot easier. Also, you need to do some better scouting. At turn 200, you still can't see the other continent. Knowing where your enemies are is very important when you're at war with them.

Unresolved said:

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but your fundamentals need a lot of work. In particular, your research is very, very far behind. I'm guessing that you didn't get the NC up early and you didn't build universities quickly. Also, you need to staff the specialist slots in the universities. Just getting your research up to par will make everything a lot easier. Also, you need to do some better scouting. At turn 200, you still can't see the other continent. Knowing where your enemies are is very important when you're at war with them.

Click to expand...

Actually, I was the first to industrialize; I'm ahead of everyone else in science and score. Nah, I skipped on the NC, but I eventually got around to it.I had prioritized unit production before science. There had to be a consist flow of units heading north to keep my wars going against enemies who were equal strength. Attila actually had a more powerful miltary than mine at the begining of the war. After I took his captial, and the many initial battles, I had only gotten to around his strength according to the military advisor. Now the name of the game is global domination. If I can raise a strong navy, I can send my whole army over, and take over his capital. Afterwards, we'll sign a peace treaty, and that woud be the begining of the end of his empire. I am stronger in military than him, and have better technology.

Here is a pic of the Pointest Sticks top scores.

I'm just saying that your BPT is far behind where you'd normally want it to be, even if it's a domination game. I don't think rushing Iron Working was a great move since it delays your science and swordsmen/longswords aren't very good anyways.

Unresolved said:

I'm just saying that your BPT is far behind where you'd normally want it to be, even if it's a domination game. I don't think rushing Iron Working was a great move since it delays your science and swordsmen/longswords aren't very good anyways.

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I agree, I think the musketmen are weak too. One thing I learn from this game that I will always remember is Archers/Composite/Crossbows are the best for war. When I played on prince, I used to rush to IW, and build Legions. But that strategy cannot work on King level.