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Old Jul 22, 2013, 11:25 AM   #1
CtJackHarkness
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Why Is Multiplayer So Bad?

Why do you all think?

Saw this review at this credible site which says multiplayer has failed..

I know turinghead is very much an anti-MP advocate....but he brings up great points in his posts regarding being more OPEN to all types of players. It seems to me Civ V has seriously poor design choice.

Look I myself can play with other people...but to exclude so many single-player aspects...adding simultaneous turns which is a real big issue...it's a shame.

Last edited by CtJackHarkness; Jul 22, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 11:33 AM   #2
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Civ 5 Multiplayer > Civ 4 Multiplayer by anyone who actually plays with humans rather than co-op with bots.

Co-op is where Multi fails in Civ 5. But if you join either of the 2 main Civ multiplayer groups NQ or Civ Players (I personally use NQ), you can find thousands of members playing MP games and 20-100 people in chat at a time looking for games.

Civ 5 has never been treated well with MP, stupid features have been added that destroy public MP games (Kicking without vote, hybrid turn programmed poorly, etc.)

But Civ 5 Multi actually is thriving under different circumstances. NQ and GMR have pushed it into a much better multiplayer experience despite the bugs and such than Civ 4 Multi ever was.

Its the Co-op players who get the real raw deal, but us real multi players certainly haven't been shafted that much
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 11:37 AM   #3
Heart Break Kid
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I agree with some of what he's saying. Civ isn't meant to be a balanced or competitive game, but its multiplayer should be more playable, at times it feels like it is just programmed so poorly.

Tried out hybrid mode for the first time today, and it was terrible. If you're in the modern era, you have to wait forever to move, at the very least they could let you look at your tech trees and stuff so you can plan out things.

I also don't like how the AI is just fodder in multiplayer. They don't interact with anyone, no trade offers like the guy said, they don't try to take over at all like in one player mode. There's just something off about the AI when there are two humans or more involved.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 11:43 AM   #4
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@HeartBreak - love your nick. Totally agree...when I was in multiplayer...me and a friend wanted to feel the AI's wrath...I was so sorely upset..I stopped playing in 2010....tried after G& K...now after Brave New World...what a god damn shame they excluded AI diplomacy, realism..etc.

I know a lot of people on the forums will say "you suck! play it with humans you !" but...it's not about that. it's about balance as the review says...and this game lacks that. I can also find THOUSANDS of posts on why simultaneous turns has ruined an essentially turn-based game and made it into a timer-fraudulent / faster connection RTS click fest.

Truly..Civ V has failed in that regard and for anyone to say Civ V > Civ IV...I truly don't see it...of course Civ IV had that multiplayer issue too with simultaneous turns.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 12:18 PM   #5
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As it stands right now, multiplayer is unplayable. Sure, it's good for maybe 100 turns but after that it's reloads every era due to random drops and flimsy hotjoin that only works maybe half the time. Not to mention random freezes requiring a reload. I find it's much better when you join a group like No Quitters but it's still so frustrating since after 3 reloads everyone just wants to scrap and maybe you're at turn 100.

I've been playing Civ MP at maybe 1-2 games a week since G&K and my longest game has gone to the Modern Era, which occurred during BNW (which was awesome because WC with human players is so much fun). I've never had a game go to a victory condition as people just leave or get frustrated with constant reloads and freezes. It's so heartbreaking, since I can see Civ being one of the most popular PC multiplayer games, it has so much more to offer besides single player.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 12:22 PM   #6
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Well my wife and I play MP a LOT from Civ 4 on and we both think the MP in BNW is the best of the bunch. So I think (like many other items in life) that whether you like MP in BNW or not totally depends on what you expect from it.

So for us, the review does not reflect how she and I view MP and so disagree with it.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 01:56 PM   #7
CtJackHarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numdydar View Post
Well my wife and I play MP a LOT from Civ 4 on and we both think the MP in BNW is the best of the bunch. So I think (like many other items in life) that whether you like MP in BNW or not totally depends on what you expect from it.

So for us, the review does not reflect how she and I view MP and so disagree with it.
If people expect a horrible multiplayer, they will be very happy with Civ V.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 02:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CtJackHarkness View Post
If people expect a horrible multiplayer, they will be very happy with Civ V.
Or you are just being completely biased.

People who play co-op will probably be unhappy

Pretty much nearly everyone else except those people who only play co-op and nothing else will be happy.

Again, try going to civ 4 Multi today and ask even in a Civ 4 room what people prefer. Civ 5 >>> Civ 4 multi for everyone else.

Co-opers got screwed and sure I sympathize for them, but its disingenuous to have your opinion without presenting the real facts. Just check, 91k people logged onto steam yesterday for Civ 5. Compare the number of public rooms, multiplayer groups, GMR, etc. to Civ 4 at its hey-day and its comparable and even larger than Civ 4 MP was at different times of the day
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 02:36 PM   #9
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And I would agree, its a poor review as it only looks at a tiny aspect of Civ multiplayer and then extrapolates to everything else without pointing out any changes, etc.

A pretty poor review without any attempts to try and other mode of multiplayer except for AI Co-op and then tries to legitimize itself
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 02:45 PM   #10
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Civ is single player first, multi-player second.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 03:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by budweiser View Post
Civ is single player first, multi-player second.
Unfortunately that is a blatant truth that I cant come to terms with. I play mostly single player but I play my MP matches a lot too. BNW fixed some issues but the majority of the problem remains.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 04:29 PM   #12
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Unfortunately that is a blatant truth that I cant come to terms with. I play mostly single player but I play my MP matches a lot too. BNW fixed some issues but the majority of the problem remains.
As I stated above. It may be true for you and the people you play with and that is certainly your opnion. However, assuming your opinion alpplies to everyone else who plays the game is very incorrect. MP for the people I play with (besides my wife) also think the Civ 5 MP experience is massively better than the previous versions.

If this aspect of the game is so bad for you and are this unhappy, then maybe you should play different games . However you are not going to convince me at least, that MP is the horrible mess you claim it to be. Sorry.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 06:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Numdydar View Post
As I stated above. It may be true for you and the people you play with and that is certainly your opnion. However, assuming your opinion alpplies to everyone else who plays the game is very incorrect. MP for the people I play with (besides my wife) also think the Civ 5 MP experience is massively better than the previous versions.

If this aspect of the game is so bad for you and are this unhappy, then maybe you should play different games . However you are not going to convince me at least, that MP is the horrible mess you claim it to be. Sorry.

People like you and your wife need to stick to Starcraft then.


Simultaneous turns has ruined the multiplayer since Civ IV, and the fact is all the people who support this crappy investment in multiplayer are basically taking the reality that

"Well it's not bad for me...but its bad for you! It's your opinion"


Then hey...we should at the same time tell thousands of people complaining about bugs..."Hey dude...I have a radeon and not a NVIDIA. This is game breaking for you....but not me! You won't convincee me this game is plagued with video card errors...because in my reality I have no errors!"


The reality is it is by NATURE unbalanced and a horrible multiplayer which takes POWER OF CHOICE away and furthermore only caters to a very small majority of people.

In essence, that's why it's "horrible"

Not that it is so broken that it cannot be played, but right now as it stands - facts outweigh you RELATIVE OPINION.

Fact: the multiplayer is a much poorer version of the single-player game which strips MANY features for co-op people and people who appreciate truthful marketing in the word:

"TURN BASED STRATEGY"

The review does a great job capturing that. You all don't and then accuse the review of being "bias."

It's too IRONIC.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 07:05 PM   #14
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some combination of poor prioritization and developer incompetence

civ multiplayer is one of those things they need to list on the box, but they won't invest in because even when they made it a priority (see: civ 4) not enough people cared

and because everyone threw their money at civ 5, they know they can get away with doing this
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 10:05 PM   #15
CtJackHarkness
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some combination of poor prioritization and developer incompetence

civ multiplayer is one of those things they need to list on the box, but they won't invest in because even when they made it a priority (see: civ 4) not enough people cared

and because everyone threw their money at civ 5, they know they can get away with doing this
Absolutely agreed.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 10:56 PM   #16
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Could someone help with this problem on multiplayer then. I get into a multiplayer player (not 1v1) with strangers. After 200 turns I realize there is no way I can win because my starting roll of the dice was unlucky. Now I have to continue to play the rest of the game ONLY for ethical reasons. That is if I pull out I am replaced with an AI and that means that my human neighbour now gets an unfair advantage because the AI is a worse player than I was. So I have to stay playing a game I know is lost for the sake of all the rest of the players.

That is the fundamental problem with multiplayer? It's not only the technical aspects but it's a fundamental problem with NvN players in the same competitive game. Multiplayer is fine for 1v1 because if one pulls out it's instant victory for the other. It's also fun for nice fun social play. But for competitive play NvN players is fundamentally flawed conceptually isn't it?

Thoughts? Note that I only ever have played 1v1.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 12:37 AM   #17
CtJackHarkness
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Originally Posted by glider1 View Post
Could someone help with this problem on multiplayer then. I get into a multiplayer player (not 1v1) with strangers. After 200 turns I realize there is no way I can win because my starting roll of the dice was unlucky. Now I have to continue to play the rest of the game ONLY for ethical reasons. That is if I pull out I am replaced with an AI and that means that my human neighbour now gets an unfair advantage because the AI is a worse player than I was. So I have to stay playing a game I know is lost for the sake of all the rest of the players.

That is the fundamental problem with multiplayer? It's not only the technical aspects but it's a fundamental problem with NvN players in the same competitive game. Multiplayer is fine for 1v1 because if one pulls out it's instant victory for the other. It's also fun for nice fun social play. But for competitive play NvN players is fundamentally flawed conceptually isn't it?

Thoughts? Note that I only ever have played 1v1.
Stop hijacking my thread
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 08:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Numdydar View Post
As I stated above. It may be true for you and the people you play with and that is certainly your opnion. However, assuming your opinion alpplies to everyone else who plays the game is very incorrect. MP for the people I play with (besides my wife) also think the Civ 5 MP experience is massively better than the previous versions.

If this aspect of the game is so bad for you and are this unhappy, then maybe you should play different games . However you are not going to convince me at least, that MP is the horrible mess you claim it to be. Sorry.
Suggestion read and Ignored, thank you. I have been playing such games all my life (which to my tastes is getting a bit oldy) and I certainly wont change now because people have lost their taste or sense of what constitutes good mechanics or a complete game. And sorry but I am not trying to convince anyone, the OP asked a question and I am giving him my opinion. Simple as that, convincing or not anyone to me is irrelevant, this is the internet So yes I am posting my opinion, but nobody can ignore the facts and the facts are that the game is 3 years old and still has major issues on all fronts.

If you like things such as: Not been able to have multiple players engage in diplomatic relations on the same turn, on the off chance that there is an AI in the game to be incapable of having any diplo contact-whatsoever, simultaneous turns on a TURN BASED GAME! (fortunately that was fixed more or less) and a thousand other reasons and flaws that have been posted millions of times, then m8y I am sorry but all I see is bias and dare I say (without been offensive) a lack of understanding of what constitutes a decent mechanics system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtJackHarkness View Post
[B]

Then hey...we should at the same time tell thousands of people complaining about bugs..."Hey dude...I have a radeon and not a NVIDIA. This is game breaking for you....but not me! You won't convincee me this game is plagued with video card errors...because in my reality I have no errors!"
See what CtJackHarkness did there? It amounts to: "LALALALALLALALA" I cant hear on how awesome I play and you cant "LALALALALALALALALALA".
If this is a way to judge a game then yes Numdydar, CiV 5 HAS ABSOLUTELY no flaws.

EDIT: BTW I have an NVIDIA and no issues: "LALALALALLALALA" I cant hear on how awesome I play and you cant with your NVIDIA "LALALALALALALALALALA".

Last edited by pilot00; Jul 23, 2013 at 08:15 AM.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 08:11 AM   #19
Numdydar
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Originally Posted by CtJackHarkness View Post

People like you and your wife need to stick to Starcraft then.


Simultaneous turns has ruined the multiplayer since Civ IV, and the fact is all the people who support this crappy investment in multiplayer are basically taking the reality that

"Well it's not bad for me...but its bad for you! It's your opinion"


Then hey...we should at the same time tell thousands of people complaining about bugs..."Hey dude...I have a radeon and not a NVIDIA. This is game breaking for you....but not me! You won't convincee me this game is plagued with video card errors...because in my reality I have no errors!"


The reality is it is by NATURE unbalanced and a horrible multiplayer which takes POWER OF CHOICE away and furthermore only caters to a very small majority of people.

In essence, that's why it's "horrible"

Not that it is so broken that it cannot be played, but right now as it stands - facts outweigh you RELATIVE OPINION.

Fact: the multiplayer is a much poorer version of the single-player game which strips MANY features for co-op people and people who appreciate truthful marketing in the word:

"TURN BASED STRATEGY"

The review does a great job capturing that. You all don't and then accuse the review of being "bias."

It's too IRONIC.
I love forum debates lol.

My wife and friends do not play Starcraft so again you make assumptions based on your view that are not correct for everyone else. Also your analogy between video cards is what is known as a false arguement.

It is your viewpoint that MP is bad. It is not mine, nor the people I play with. Agian I am sorry you feel that it is so bad. However, it is NOT going to chamge in Civ 5. So if you feel better because you came here and vented your fustrations, then great. Just do not expect everyone to agree with your views no matter how strongly you feel about them.

A more constructive approch would be to wait until Civ 6 starts to be developed, join the beta team, and then your views would have a much better chance of being heard and acted on than just posting here. But if you need to vent further, feel free to do so. Just be aware that it will have no impact on Civ 5 development.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 08:18 AM   #20
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Nah forget it I gave a promise not to do this again.
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