CTR 0 -- 1 if by Air, 2 if by Sea

[ChrTh]

CTR 0 -- 1 if by Air, 2 if by Sea

I'm not playing this game, just co-ordinating it (and seeing if there's enough interest).

Here's the skinny:
PTW 1.21f
Civ: Vikings
Level: Regent (if artillery units can not assault cities) or Monarch (if artillery units can assault cities)
Victory Conditions: Conquest only
Size/# Civs/Geography: TBD (probably Archipelago)

The catch:
Cities can only be captured by Sea or by Air. By the former, Berserk and Marine units can assault and capture a city from a sea unit regardless of the status of the defenders. With the latter, the city needs to be bombarded by air and sea units (possibly also artillery units, see above) until all defenders are redlined, and then paratroopers and/or ground, non-motorized units (i.e. no tank, armor, or mech. inf.) deployed by Helicopters can assault. Units brought in by Helicopter can only attack the turn they are dropped off; they must return to our territory for one turn before being redeployed as attacking units (they, of course, can be defending units without redeployment).

The goal of this game is to provide a learning tutorial for the players where skills with naval and air units can be developed. Artillery can also come into play for strategizing, but that should be a secondary concern. It'd be nice to have one strong player (An Emperor regular) playing and offering advice, but if it can't be done, we'll figure it out the hard way. Lurkers can comment freely, of course.

It's not a training day game, but I think that there should be much commentary between turns from the participating players (rather than just Hot Potatoe Mode(TM))--once we get to Berserk, of course. The reason I'm not playing is because I have exams and travel coming up in the next few weeks and I don't want the SG to bog down waiting for me. However, I'll frequently comment.

If enough people want to play we can get started asap, and I'll ask for a volunteer to start the first 20 turns (we'll probably do 20 turn turns until we get to Invention, then go down to 10). I'm thinking 5 players, or 6 if we get a serious veteran involved.

If the experts on the board feel success is nigh-impossible with the conditions spelled out, PLEASE let us know. While the goal isn't to win, the game would be pretty useless if we died before we build our first Berserk. Also, if this has been done before and I missed it during my hiatus and I'm just retreading old ground, let me know that as well.

Roster
--------
Aggie (AWOL )
pdescobar
ChrTh
smurf
New Player?
New Player?

I am aware that we're going to have a serious handicap early on (can't expand by conquest until Invention), so if enough people agree, I'll set up our opponents as the less-aggressive Civs (including Joan ). I'm particularly enamored with the possibility that our initial landmass may have an opposing Civ into the late Industrial Age if the cities are landlocked.

As always, the exploits are not allowed. We're concerned with learning here, not winning, and you won't learn much except to depend on crutches if you take advantage of the AI.

[Sirp]

Ermmm....how exactly do you capture a city 'by air'?

Perhaps you mean paratroopers have to drop down next to the city before attacking it, or helicopters have to transport troops in??

-Sirp.

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Sirp
Ermmm....how exactly do you capture a city 'by air'?

Perhaps you mean paratroopers have to drop down next to the city before attacking it, or helicopters have to transport troops in??

-Sirp.

I'd say both. I always forget---did Civ 3 remove Nuke 'n' Paratroop? Can paratroopers land in an undefended city in Civ 3?

I'd also say that land forces can't pillage, only bombardment can be used for pillaging, but that's up for discussion.

[Sirp]

I don't know if you can nuke and paratroop (I have never used a nuke), however even if you can, I would hardly say that this is the way to teach good, solid aerial attack skills

I'd suggest something more like, "the city must be bombarded from the air or the sea until all defending units are redlined before attacking the city"

-Sirp.

[Aggie]

Archipelago and vikings is a combination perfect for your goal. Because of the berserk, that is able to do marine attacks.

However, for a good air-training game it may be worthwile to have another type of map. Continents would be nice: you can still take out cities with berserks (a superior unit, especially on regent level) and also have to research towards flight at least.

And I agree with Sirp's suggestion: redline all defending units with air or sea-units and then attack.

Maybe you could add: only capture cities with paratroopers or troops transported by helicopters. And I would rule out artillery, because attack with artillery is standard these days.

I'd like to join, but regent sounds a bit too easy. I'd prefer monarch at least

I'm a paratroop/helicopter newbie. I use artillery A LOT.

[bewareofgnomes]

i will join. i play emporer and monarch, and i am *terrible* at using helicopter, marines, nava bombard, air power, and eve *gasp* artillery. and regent does sound a little too easy. i agree with the redline of units.



EDIT - i may have limited time, so i might have to be skipped from time to time.

[ChrTh]

The problem with a continent system is that you'll only be able to take coastal cities until the late Industrial Ages--and there are a lot fewer coastal cities in a continent system. Making it an Archipelago enforces the gaming strategem, as we'll want to beeline to Mapmaking then Astronomy/Navigation.

If enough people want Monarch, I'll go up to Monarch, but I think you'll reduce the chance of success by doing so. But since I'm not actually playing...

Not sure what is meant by 'redline', if you mean all defending troops must be at a red bar before they can be assaulted by Berserk/Marines/Paratroopers, that might be really tough to pull off--we'll require Extreme Coordination(TM), especially in the early part of the game. But I guess that makes more sense, otherwise we could become reduced to "50 modern armor and 1 paratrooper" army late in the game.

Ok, these are our choices:
Regent, but no Artillery Units can be used against cities
Monarch, and Artillery Units can be used against cities

Aggie and bewareofgnomes, you've been added to the list

One Last Thing: I will create the starting position for the game, but I won't cheat/check past 4000BC before we start.

(Initial Post to be Updated)

[Sirp]

Yes that's what's meant by 'redline', ChrTh. And, I don't think you want too many coastal cities, otherwise the world will be overrun by Bezerkers. You want enough coastal cities to be able to inflict substantial damage, but not so many as to allow you to take over most of the world.

Btw ChrTh, have you seen Realms Beyond Epic 5? That was an air-only variant: you couldn't use ships, at all, on an archipelago, and you had to win by conquest.

Turned out kinda fun.

-Sirp.

[Aggie]

Redline indeed means that the unit only has one hitpoint left. I believe that Sirp was suggesting redlining for non-naval cities. Naval cities could be taken by berserks/marine imho.

He did the suggestions, because it is not possible to conquer inland cities with air units alone. You need ground troops. To keep it in the spirit of the game, it may be a rule to have those troops flown/sailed in.

Please note that artillery bomardment is commen practise in modern warfare at higher levels. If you want to win a war at deity: use artillery. That's why I was suggesting to ban them and only allow bombardment by planes and ships.

[Sirp]

Yeah the idea was that you can attack cities by amphibious assault anytime, but you can only attack cities normally if you're redlined all the units in the city first.

-Sirp.

[Gothmog]

Ah, the old Nuke 'n' Paratroop, second only to the spy buy rush. Civ2 was alot of fun.

[Aggie]

The original -edited- post looks great now. I completely agree. I'd really like to play the monarch variant. Regent is no problem either.

[ChrTh]

Interest in this one seems spotty at best...but exam week is coming up for most of the USA, so I'll let it linger to see if anyone is interested (heck, if it stays here long enough, I might be able to join )

[pdescobar]

This looks interesting. While I did use a lot of berserkers amphibiously the one time I played as the vikings, I have almost never used marines and haven't really used air units at all for conquest. I'd rather play the regent no-artillery variant though so we are forced to use aerial bombardment and naval bombardment.

[ChrTh]

pdescobar,

I've added you to the roster. We'll make a decision on the Regent v Monarch once we get a full roster; if people are up to the challenge, we could always play Monarch/No Art--but in the end, it's up to the players.

EDIT: Clarification: Artillery can still be used against units outside the city, just not cities in the No Art specification. I think in terms of bombing improvements, that should be air/sea only as well, but that's up to the players.

[Aggie]

I'd say we need one more to tart this. I'd prefer 5, but 4 will do. Agreed?

[ChrTh]

I agree. I wouldn't be able to join in until the 13th at the earliest, so I'd want 5 to start, with me on reserve.

[pdescobar]

5 sounds good to me. Regarding artillery, I wouldn't object to it even being restricted further to purely defensive or something like can't leave our own territory with it.

[Smurf]

I've had some SG experiance with some monarch and regent TDGs. I have soloed and SG'd regent, and I think I can take this.

[Aggie]

Yipeee, now we have 4!