About Tanks

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DBuckner21

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
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How often do you use tanks in your games? Normally I play on Huge sized Pangea on standard speed with Immortal difficulty level. I find that I rarely ever use them. At that point in the game, the AI is usually behind so the AI hardly ever uses them either.

More than anything, I have found the posiiton of tanks on the tech tree to not offer the same value that other techs would have. For instance, Plastics gives access to Infantry (strengh 70), Cristo Redentor and its usually on the way to other useful techs. It's earlier on the tech tree too which is what I don't understand. Why would I want to use tanks when they come later in the tech tree and cost oil resources to build?

How do you all use tanks? Are there just special circumstances where you use them for the extra bit of speed etc?

Thank you for the input.
 
In my last game I was mostly attacking cities with aircraft and artillery. However, these units need to be able to see the enemy city to attack, so you still need something with enough movement points to duck in and out of range, despite hills and Forests that cost 2 movement points etc.

This means 4 movement points minimum, tanks have 5 so they're good.

Finally, you need something that can make the dash from out of bombardment range to capture the city in one turn - again i used tanks for this.

They dont cost that much, provided you have oil.


The problem i found was enemy AA assets, they seem so OP - don't cost much more than motorised inf, no special resources, and they aren't particularly vulnerable to any form of attack. When they appeared, i had to make them a priority target for my land army or they'd decimate my planes. Arty, a range promoted Chu-Ko-Nu that was now a machine gun, able to fire twice per turn out to two hexes and with Cover 2 and March promotions. And, when all this wasn't enough, i'd use my tanks to kill finish them off.

Other than that i try to keep them out of combat.

Anybody know about helicopter gunships - can they move after attacking, and can they capture cities? (i guess not?) i'd also imagine they're going to take a lot of damage fighting mobile SAM. And i'd rather save the ALU for Hydro plants, Stealth Bombers and Jet fighters.

Oh yes and Stealth bombers seem to do much better against the AAA, I can even attack them with them if the bomber is at full health.
 
They'd see more use if the AI wasn't dumber than deep fried dog turds about air combat. As is, tanks are still nightmare units if you have autocracy. Higher attack strength, fast movers, and they can pillage the hell out of your enemies to stay topped off on health.

People can't stop talking about how good bombers are, but a handful of interceptors will neutralize bombers while tanks are offensive monsters.
 
b7fanatix said:
In my last game I was mostly attacking cities with aircraft and artillery. However, these units need to be able to see the enemy city to attack, so you still need something with enough movement points to duck in and out of range, despite hills and Forests that cost 2 movement points etc.

This means 4 movement points minimum, tanks have 5 so they're good.

Finally, you need something that can make the dash from out of bombardment range to capture the city in one turn - again i used tanks for this.

They dont cost that much, provided you have oil.


The problem i found was enemy AA assets, they seem so OP - don't cost much more than motorised inf, no special resources, and they aren't particularly vulnerable to any form of attack. When they appeared, i had to make them a priority target for my land army or they'd decimate my planes. Arty, a range promoted Chu-Ko-Nu that was now a machine gun, able to fire twice per turn out to two hexes and with Cover 2 and March promotions. And, when all this wasn't enough, i'd use my tanks to kill finish them off.

Other than that i try to keep them out of combat.

Anybody know about helicopter gunships - can they move after attacking, and can they capture cities? (i guess not?) i'd also imagine they're going to take a lot of damage fighting mobile SAM. And i'd rather save the ALU for Hydro plants, Stealth Bombers and Jet fighters.

Oh yes and Stealth bombers seem to do much better against the AAA, I can even attack them with them if the bomber is at full health.
Click to expand...

I'm not particularly skilled so please don't take this an attack of any sort, it's merely for discussion purposes.

I find aircraft to generally not useful either. It's been my experience that any benefit i get from building them is wiped away by the zilions of movile sams and antiaircraft units used by CPU. It's not even worth investing in building them to me.

I handn't thought about using the tanks as mobile scouts, but normally i get up close and personal with infantry and artillery when i'm taking a city anyway so not as big of an issue i guess.

I'm sure i use the whole calvary line suboptimally, though, as I rarely use knighs or calvaries either.

Thanks for the input so far. Let's keep this discussion going.
 
Tanks are great if you commit to domination but I rarely commit to domination. But for pure domination tanks can destroy a civ much faster than planes. The only civ I would always go tanks is Assyria, because it can basically steal all the upper tree techs.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
I often have leftover cavalry I keep around as a highly mobile unit, when I get attacked in Industrial Age and need to respond quickly. I always upgrade them into Tank ASAP for the same reason.

I don't know what's not to love about Tanks, honestly. They are fast and they are strong. Your late-game cities will produce them quickly and will start with a ton of experience from military buildings. I often spend too little time to make use of Landships, but they are equally useful when I'm short on cash and can't go straight for Tanks.

I agree they are on the less-appealing side of the tech tree though. But I will go for them anyway, either if I need rapid defense force or a hard-hitting attack army.
 
I don't think I ever really go down that side of the tech tree. By the time I'm in the modern era I'm well on my way to a Culture/Science victory.
 
Every time I go Autocracy. Lightning warfare + fighters for intercept is so much more fun than bombers + infantry. Bombers are just boring. Conquest is still easy, but it at least feels like a war as opposed to target practice.
 
b7fanatix said:
Anybody know about helicopter gunships - can they move after attacking, and can they capture cities? (i guess not?) i'd also imagine they're going to take a lot of damage fighting mobile SAM. And i'd rather save the ALU for Hydro plants, Stealth Bombers and Jet fighters.
Click to expand...

Yes, they can move after attacking, and actually ignore ZOC altogether. They cannot capture cities, and are weak against cities anyway. Yes, they take a lot of damage fighting mobile SAM. Actually, they are kind of weak against all melee except tanks. Best use IMHO is pillaging strategic resources and luxes (not that the AI really has a problem with happiness), just end your turn at least two hexes away from cities.

Here are a couple pros/cons/quirks: Because they are air units, they can get a 2nd attack or auto-repair as their third promotion. They don’t benefit from your roads or rails, so newly minted units can take longer than expected to reach the front line. They can fly over mountain ranges, but not a 1-hex lake tile. The automatic routing doesn’t care about ending the turn on a mountain (which hurts them), so be careful with that.
 
Tank is OK, if you don't leading AI too much and they have already got AA gun while you still has bombers and not enough fighters for air sweeping.

Helicopter, the other way aorund, I still couldn't figure out its value, and have never tried to build one.
 
But I had to admit, 1upt mean you don't need too many land units to defeat AI. And plastic is so important that you will build enough infantries to conquer your opponent before you trying to reach combustion
 
I usually have a couple of tanks, mainly upgraded horse units, and they are great for a traditional blitzkrieg style attack.
Say you have two cities
Y----A-----B
Where Y is your city so A is near your borders and B in deeper into enemy territory.

You can send your slow moving infantry and artillery to attack city A while your tanks go around that city and straight for city B on which you use your bombers to weaken and thus can easily take 2 cities simultaneously.

Tanks also make a great pillaging force when you aren't looking to actually take more AI cities.i.e. i usually take the cities i want then just pillage all the enemies other tiles before giving peace.
If your looking to only puppet a city you can use them to pre-pillage all the city food tiles to restrict the puppets growth if so desired also.
 
Helicopters are the most effective unit against GDR. However games won't get that far unless you use special settings

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Vitruvius said:
Helicopters are the most effective unit against GDR. However games won't get that far unless you use special settings

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Click to expand...

Really? I always underestimate that 65 attack it has or so (I forgot it's value, sorry) and the fact it can't move after attacking makes the 1 move point wherever les useful, but it still has it's uses. a 6 movement can be good for ambushes and scouting, but can they really stand up to a GDR? the GDR pack a massive 150 attack, and even though it doesn't have defensive bonuses from terrain, it's still a lot.

I'm not hating on the copter, though, it still has a few uses, such as Tank busters and Scouting. Then again, the power creep in me wishes there was one more upgrade to the helicopter. IT does cost an aluminum resource.
 
Doktor Vic Tim said:
Really? I always underestimate that 65 attack it has or so (I forgot it's value, sorry) and the fact it can't move after attacking makes the 1 move point wherever les useful, but it still has it's uses. a 6 movement can be good for ambushes and scouting, but can they really stand up to a GDR? the GDR pack a massive 150 attack, and even though it doesn't have defensive bonuses from terrain, it's still a lot.

I'm not hating on the copter, though, it still has a few uses, such as Tank busters and Scouting. Then again, the power creep in me wishes there was one more upgrade to the helicopter. IT does cost an aluminum resource.
Click to expand...

It has 100% against GDR. With additional 25% for each anti tank promotion. It is cheap and fast. With the exception of GDR itself, it is the strongest unit against GDR.

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Tanks are great when they have that 5 movement which allows for plundering many tiles at once. Using tanks now is better than the earlier versions, imho, because of the 5 movement and the plunder ability. Im starting to use tanks more like I used to.
 
I will keep this in mind. I use Helicopters when I suspect my friends are about to use tanks on me, and the sight of my Copter Squadron usually gets them to retreat. And Danish Lancers-Turned-Helicopters are just hilarious to pillage with. Or Sipahi-Turned-Helicopters
 
Do Swedish helis upgraded from their lancers till keep their ability? If so, a great general with the ability to move up to 6 tiles per turn sounds pretty beastly :D

BTW, tanks are pretty awesome, there have quite a fair bit of attack power, and a larger movement that most other land units, so whats not to like about them?
 
Jampine said:
Do Swedish helis upgraded from their lancers till keep their ability? If so, a great general with the ability to move up to 6 tiles per turn sounds pretty beastly :D

BTW, tanks are pretty awesome, there have quite a fair bit of attack power, and a larger movement that most other land units, so whats not to like about them?
Click to expand...

Yes, Hakkapeliitta ability does carry over. It is nice, but you have to deal with Anti-Tank Gun's 2 movement that won't really be beneficial for the most part.

EDIT: Your GG still has to deal with movememnt penalty over rough terrain and rivers, though. Ability won't stack "No movement penalty"
 
Doktor Vic Tim said:
Yes, Hakkapeliitta ability does carry over. It is nice, but you have to deal with Anti-Tank Gun's 2 movement that won't really be beneficial for the most part.

EDIT: Your GG still has to deal with movememnt penalty over rough terrain and rivers, though. Ability won't stack "No movement penalty"
Click to expand...
That's why you get helicopters by buying landshneks.
 
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