Mount Suribachi
Prince
I find them all attractive apart from Aristocrats as energy isn't that useful in the early game. Artists and their ability to help pump out virtues quickly on the other hand...
Discuss.
Discuss.
Seeding options - best colonist
- Thread starter Mount Suribachi
- Start date
GAGA Extrem
Emperor
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I prefer artists. Getting extra global health per city is amazing (basicially a free Prosperity II virtue) and the extra +2 culture is great to get to the important virtues much faster (even more so if you suffer from the culture penalty from negative health that is rounded up).
Scientists would probably be my second choise - a pretty decent early game bonus that allows you to grab techs quite a bit faster. Extra production or food might become good once trade routes are fixed. Aristocrats ultimately seem weaker than artists, but maybe some military rush strategies can utilize the extra cash.
Scientists would probably be my second choise - a pretty decent early game bonus that allows you to grab techs quite a bit faster. Extra production or food might become good once trade routes are fixed. Aristocrats ultimately seem weaker than artists, but maybe some military rush strategies can utilize the extra cash.
soprof
Warlord
Artists into cities into traderoutes into cities into traderoutes into cities into traderoutes is the only viable strategy atm /=
Well, health is irrelevant.
alpaca
King of Ungulates
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Well... 13/13 people so far voted artists. 
Honestly, there's pretty much no competition. The only ones that even come anywhere near the ballpark are scientists, but even that is only because they allow you to farm pods for a second-ring tech more easily. Seeing that it's pretty difficult to get more than 5 culture per city otherwise, artists are still the best choice even if you completely ignore health. Trade routes can generate science, but not culture.
By the way, the comparison for the free production is also pretty much the same. You'd be nuts not to take the free worker to start improving tiles on turn 0.
Honestly, there's pretty much no competition. The only ones that even come anywhere near the ballpark are scientists, but even that is only because they allow you to farm pods for a second-ring tech more easily. Seeing that it's pretty difficult to get more than 5 culture per city otherwise, artists are still the best choice even if you completely ignore health. Trade routes can generate science, but not culture.
By the way, the comparison for the free production is also pretty much the same. You'd be nuts not to take the free worker to start improving tiles on turn 0.
GAGA Extrem
Emperor
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Sort of, yes.
Negative health doesn't have enough penalties to stop the player from expanding. However, it is still a penalty - and artists guarantee that you will be at postive health once you have unlocked Eudaimonia, so its a nice side effect to negate all negative health penalites with your starting colonists if you go deeper in Prosperity.
I'll take that extra (or: not penalized) science, culture, outpost speed and pop growth if it is part of the package.
I dunno. They all seem pretty nice to me. I think people might be over-apreciating artists because the culture bonus is more engaging than the other yield bonuses.
Artists and scientists are the most flexible because virtues and techs allow you to adapt to situations as they unfold. The other bonuses are pretty passive. But food is pretty crucial in all civ games and that +2 can possibly turn around a really bad start. Production lets you built stuff that gives bonuses faster. +2 science is pretty hefty at the start. The energy one is maybe the weakest but I tried it myself and wound up swimming in cash, which lets you buy stuff. And it comes with a health bonus.
I think it's more about mixing and matching, like if you play with Franco-Iberia you probably want to pick Artists because of their UA.
Artists and scientists are the most flexible because virtues and techs allow you to adapt to situations as they unfold. The other bonuses are pretty passive. But food is pretty crucial in all civ games and that +2 can possibly turn around a really bad start. Production lets you built stuff that gives bonuses faster. +2 science is pretty hefty at the start. The energy one is maybe the weakest but I tried it myself and wound up swimming in cash, which lets you buy stuff. And it comes with a health bonus.
I think it's more about mixing and matching, like if you play with Franco-Iberia you probably want to pick Artists because of their UA.
Gokudo01
Emperor
I think you are missing the point. Early culture is the best not because filling virtue faster is better, it's because free colonist snowballs you. The main issue here, is free colonist.
As prouf, try starting with Artist and don't pick free colonist :
opening might ? what's the point to get bonus for units that you still don't have ?
opening industry ? where is your second base? have you already unlock a wonder ?
opening knowledge ? Hope you'll have lots of expedition near you because the other tier 1 aren't great, early
opening prosperity without picking free colonist ? lol, i wont explain why i think prosperity is weak but many of you should be able to figure out alone.
All in all, if there is a main culprit, it is Free colonist.
This talent would be early tier 2, I think artist would still be good but not such a no brainer, because if free colonist get delayed, you have more chance to get station in your way, forcing you to get some military force which hold you back a little, limiting your snowball potential. That's why I'm against changing how station spawns, it forces players to get a bunch of military forces if he wants to settle the optimal second city.
Scientist and engineer are useful in the super early on some map setting or some opening ( my aggressive might build starts with engineer) but fall off really fast ( internal and international trade routes)
Aristocrat is not dat bad. get fusion reactor, some energy from pod and you can have worker before turn 20.
it allows you to get a different cargo and still get early worker.
refugee is the only one which I find totally useless. Without tradition and public school, the snowball effect of population is not great. Moreover you will hit the negative health sooner.
The only way to get some use of it is to get machinery, improve a mine and lock your second citizen in while still being able to keep growing.
Conclusion : i wont vote
As prouf, try starting with Artist and don't pick free colonist :
opening might ? what's the point to get bonus for units that you still don't have ?
opening industry ? where is your second base? have you already unlock a wonder ?
opening knowledge ? Hope you'll have lots of expedition near you because the other tier 1 aren't great, early
opening prosperity without picking free colonist ? lol, i wont explain why i think prosperity is weak but many of you should be able to figure out alone.
All in all, if there is a main culprit, it is Free colonist.
This talent would be early tier 2, I think artist would still be good but not such a no brainer, because if free colonist get delayed, you have more chance to get station in your way, forcing you to get some military force which hold you back a little, limiting your snowball potential. That's why I'm against changing how station spawns, it forces players to get a bunch of military forces if he wants to settle the optimal second city.
Scientist and engineer are useful in the super early on some map setting or some opening ( my aggressive might build starts with engineer) but fall off really fast ( internal and international trade routes)
Aristocrat is not dat bad. get fusion reactor, some energy from pod and you can have worker before turn 20.
it allows you to get a different cargo and still get early worker.
refugee is the only one which I find totally useless. Without tradition and public school, the snowball effect of population is not great. Moreover you will hit the negative health sooner.
The only way to get some use of it is to get machinery, improve a mine and lock your second citizen in while still being able to keep growing.
Conclusion : i wont vote
Artists > Scientists > Engineers/Refugees (depends on the start which is more beneficial, but you can't know that until after you seed anyway) > Aristocrats
I'm sure just about everyone scores them similarly. Artists is just too good, but if they nerfed it in any way everyone would just pick Scientists.
I'm sure just about everyone scores them similarly. Artists is just too good, but if they nerfed it in any way everyone would just pick Scientists.
Strategist83
King
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2005
- Messages
- 625
I think you are missing the point. Early culture is the best not because filling virtue faster is better, it's because free colonist snowballs you. The main issue here, is free colonist.
As prouf, try starting with Artist and don't pick free colonist :
opening might ? what's the point to get bonus for units that you still don't have ?
opening industry ? where is your second base? have you already unlock a wonder ?
opening knowledge ? Hope you'll have lots of expedition near you because the other tier 1 aren't great, early
opening prosperity without picking free colonist ? lol, i wont explain why i think prosperity is weak but many of you should be able to figure out alone.
All in all, if there is a main culprit, it is Free colonist.
This talent would be early tier 2, I think artist would still be good but not such a no brainer, because if free colonist get delayed, you have more chance to get station in your way, forcing you to get some military force which hold you back a little, limiting your snowball potential. That's why I'm against changing how station spawns, it forces players to get a bunch of military forces if he wants to settle the optimal second city.
Scientist and engineer are useful in the super early on some map setting or some opening ( my aggressive might build starts with engineer) but fall off really fast ( internal and international trade routes)
Aristocrat is not dat bad. get fusion reactor, some energy from pod and you can have worker before turn 20.
it allows you to get a different cargo and still get early worker.
refugee is the only one which I find totally useless. Without tradition and public school, the snowball effect of population is not great. Moreover you will hit the negative health sooner.
The only way to get some use of it is to get machinery, improve a mine and lock your second citizen in while still being able to keep growing.
Conclusion : i wont vote
I agree with most of this. There was a brief time where I though the colonist was bad because it was a dead end, but that proved to be wrong. That was also a time when I was beelining Eudaimonia because I thought positive health was important. But nowadays I never put more than the T1 5 in Prosperity. As a matter of fact I've become very fond of Prosperity 5 --> Field Research. Even though it's an early game only policy with redundant tree progression, it ~guarantees Ectogenesis Pod even in MP (unless someone else does the same).
Anyways, due to the overwhelming power of ITRs, the speed at which you can set one up between your cap and first expo is crucial. Which is is an important reason why Artists are good. Though I would also add culture happens to be the most scarce yield throughout the game. So Artists remain useful all of the time.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Artists and scientist are most influential in early game, and their gains are also not easily increased in early game by internal trade roots like food and hammers.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
Note that artist is still is owerpowered, since exempt giving really decent culture boost in resource you generate most slowly in the game, it gives health on top of everything.
Heck, I would still pick artist if it gave just culture boost without any health.
Heck, I would still pick artist if it gave just culture boost without any health.
Mount Suribachi
Prince
Wow, I wasn't expecting 35-0
So the next question is - how would you balance what is clearly an unbalanced set of options?
So the next question is - how would you balance what is clearly an unbalanced set of options?
Ryika
Lazy Wannabe Artista
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2013
- Messages
- 9,395
Hahaha, love that poll. In retrospective I should have voted for Aristocrats instead of Artists.
After all, they're a save bet for getting an additional settler if no ruin pops a solar satellite! 8)
Balancing would be relatively easy though. Taking away the +1 health from artists would already make the decision a lot harder. ^^
After all, they're a save bet for getting an additional settler if no ruin pops a solar satellite! 8)
Balancing would be relatively easy though. Taking away the +1 health from artists would already make the decision a lot harder. ^^
UnderKingDuck
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2014
- Messages
- 179
Wow, I wasn't expecting 35-0
So the next question is - how would you balance what is clearly an unbalanced set of options?
Remove the +1 health from the colonist options. Unless there is a colonist option that just gives health and only health, I don't feel the other's should be giving it as a secondary effect.
BroOfTheSun
Warlord
Several people talked about picking artists because it's faster option to the free colonist. I also want to add another argument for picking artists, which is that your sources for culture are limited compared to the other yields.
Trade Routes will give you food and production. So getting engineers and refugees for +food/production doesn't seem worth it. You're already getting an abundance of food and production.
Aristocrats is an ok option for the early game, just because it allows you to buy a worker/trade deport/trade vehicle faster to help with the snowball affect. But gold in late game is totally pointless, as there's nothing to spend it on besides maybe an expensive unit or building. Plus, gold is easy to come by with trade routes as well. There's no shortage of gold in this game.
Scientists are an ok choice, but there's no real need to rush technologies to start. It's better to rush growth and expansion. Also, trade routes and spies can make up for a shortfall of science. This might be a better option with the +1 health per city though, especially since it would work well with the Knowledge tree and keeping your civ in positive health.
So that leaves artists as the clear choice. Your only options for generating culture are buildings (Old Earth Relic is first choice, followed by Alien Sanctuary i think is the next closest one), stations, or some tile yields. Getting a culture station is likely a roll of the dice. Tile yields are low for culture too in the early game. Your choices are much more limited in how to generate culture. So it makes the most sense to pick culture. Just another argument for why I pick artists.
Old Earth Relic gives +2 (+1 with quest). Alien Sanctuary gives +2 culture. So these will last you early and start of mid-game. +2 from artists is such a huge increase to this.
Trade Routes will give you food and production. So getting engineers and refugees for +food/production doesn't seem worth it. You're already getting an abundance of food and production.
Aristocrats is an ok option for the early game, just because it allows you to buy a worker/trade deport/trade vehicle faster to help with the snowball affect. But gold in late game is totally pointless, as there's nothing to spend it on besides maybe an expensive unit or building. Plus, gold is easy to come by with trade routes as well. There's no shortage of gold in this game.
Scientists are an ok choice, but there's no real need to rush technologies to start. It's better to rush growth and expansion. Also, trade routes and spies can make up for a shortfall of science. This might be a better option with the +1 health per city though, especially since it would work well with the Knowledge tree and keeping your civ in positive health.
So that leaves artists as the clear choice. Your only options for generating culture are buildings (Old Earth Relic is first choice, followed by Alien Sanctuary i think is the next closest one), stations, or some tile yields. Getting a culture station is likely a roll of the dice. Tile yields are low for culture too in the early game. Your choices are much more limited in how to generate culture. So it makes the most sense to pick culture. Just another argument for why I pick artists.
Old Earth Relic gives +2 (+1 with quest). Alien Sanctuary gives +2 culture. So these will last you early and start of mid-game. +2 from artists is such a huge increase to this.
