Improving on Monarch level

I have my first game on Monarch level running and my feeling is that it goes neither very badly nor particularly well. I'm somewhere in mid game (Replacable Parts in tech tree) and couldn't say for sure if I will win or lose. Both is still possible and the game is definitely a challenge for me so that I intend to stay on Monarch level for some more games before I'll try a more difficult level.

During the game I have noticed that I'm still struggling in the early game when it comes to timing important decisions like "When do I build my second and third city" (I tend to be late, I believe) and "When do I research this or that tech", but I could also improve in "micro decisions" like "When do I whip", "When and for what do I chop", "Which building/unit do I really need now" or "Which improvements do my workers need to build now" (my current approach is best described as "chaotic"). Other things that are often not clear to me involve diplomacy and tech trading and I don't have a real grasp of timing, preparing and executing a war (I tend to prepare too long, sometimes until the enemy has the proper defenders that I exactly didn't want to face). City specialization is another thing that I tend to overlook a bit. (My cities are often mediocre (except capital maybe) because they are good and bad in everything, instead of being very good in one thing and very bad in another...)

As said, in my current game it works "somehow" but my feeling is that it's more luck than a strategic outcome. (For example, I believe, one early war declaration of a strong neighbour had killed me because I wasn't in good shape for a long early period.)

Long story short: I wanted to ask if I can start a new game (parallel, I'll continue with my current game alone) with your occasional support for especially the early steps. I could upload screen shots and saved games every now and then. I have read several times here that you prefer and that it's easier for you to attend a game from the beginning instead of supporting a game that is already running for a longer time and where important things are possibly already messed up due to bad early play.

If so, what leader would you recommend for such a "game improvement session" that is a bit beyond the basics but not much? I would prefer to select a new one that I didn't play in my last games, just for the change (i.e. not Willem, Ghengis, Huayna, Hatshepsut or Darius). If you say however one of those is best suited to improve on the game I'll start with him/her once more.

I would go for the worst,straight in at the deep end-Ragnar and Toku,both with horrible starting techs,both with UB and UUs that have limited time frame (macemen)and map dependant/victory condition buildings.If you can get these two civs to a comfortable monarch victory your sound for EMP level.I think I mentioned in another thread of yours,tough to play,but worth it when you get it right.

Ragnar has a saving grace with his FIN trait,toku otoh has PRO/AGG gunpowder units.The trick is getting those units quick enough to take advantage.Ragnars beserkers /tokus samurai facing archers for the 1st war is what your looking to achieve.

I was gonna suggest something a bit easier. Suryavarman. His UU or UB won't win you the game, but cheap granaries, libraries and workers, combined with no need for monuments, makes for a quick start. And without an obvious UU to beeline, you are forced to play the map, not the leader. But any leader is good really. Toku and Rags are both fine leaders as well. Perhaps just avoid the strongest, like Huayna, and those with chariot based UUs that you already played.

You could also try some less standard map script. For example inland sea is a great map for learning. No need for navy, early contact with all AI and usually only two direct neighbours, which makes managing diplo a bit easier.

I decided now to follow FlyingSwan and selected ... Ragnar! Maybe I will give Suryavarman a try after this game to see if I can apply what I learned with a leader who is bit easier to play and without a lot of forum support. As map I've chosen Pangaea. The Inland Sea map looks interesting. However, I somehow don't like those flat maps so much where the world is a rectangle and simply ends at a dark edge

So, the setting is:

Map: Pangaea
Climate: Temperate
Sea Level: Medium
Shore Line: Random
Map Size: Standard
Difficulty: Monarch
Game Speed: Normal

Leader/Civ: Ragnar / Viking Empire

I left all other game settings unchanged (huts on/off, events on/off, tech trading on/off, etc., etc.). I guess you know what the default for each setting is (I actually don't exactly).

And attached is turn 0. I've nothing moved yet (the scout is on the hill, the settler in the forest).

My initial thought: Move scout to the hill 1S of settler to see if there are more resources in the east. If yes, maybe, SIP. If not, move settler 1W to catch all 3 visible resources and settle in turn 1 (food from the FP until border push).

My initial reaction here, which may not be the wisest of course, is that I want to settle west because there are more river tiles, which will make it a better capital from what we can see at least. So with that in mind, I'd move the scout onto the corn to reveal more stuff over there. Then probably settle 1W. Alternatively, and perhaps better tbh, is to move the scout onto the hill to reveal what you may miss out on by settling west. Unless something great pops up, move 1W and settle there. Unfortunate about the lake, as otherwise the scout could have moved onto what looks like a hill 1N of the tribal village (might be better if you played without those btw, but it's fine to continue as they're a much smaller factor than events).

PS: If you do move the settler towards the west, first move him NW so you reveal more land, then down to the forest if that's where you want to settle.

Pangaea said:

My initial reaction here, which may not be the wisest of course, is that I want to settle west because there are more river tiles, which will make it a better capital from what we can see at least. So with that in mind, I'd move the scout onto the corn to reveal more stuff over there. Then probably settle 1W. Alternatively, and perhaps better tbh, is to move the scout onto the hill to reveal what you may miss out on by settling west. Unless something great pops up, move 1W and settle there. Unfortunate about the lake, as otherwise the scout could have moved onto what looks like a hill 1N of the tribal village (might be better if you played without those btw, but it's fine to continue as they're a much smaller factor than events).

PS: If you do move the settler towards the west, first move him NW so you reveal more land, then down to the forest if that's where you want to settle.

Click to expand...

This, but:

Don't move the scout 1NE on the hill but 1E on the Forrest, because like that, you can pick up the Hut next turn once you settled your capital (picking up Huts before settling eliminates the possibility to recieve a tech) .

Also, if you move the Settler 1NW + 1S, move the Scout first again to reveal what would have ben in the BFC before you definately settle 1W.

Would you exclude the hill 1SW of the settler as a good place? If I settle 1W I'll have at least 5 hills in BFC, at 1SW only 2 of those 5 in exchange for 3 fresh water grassland tiles. However, the Stone wouldn't be in the BFC anymore. I have in mind that Ragnar is FIN and maybe wants a lot of cottages on fresh water grassland because of the immediate +3 commerce. Still based on the same picture, haven't moved yet.

I would be very surprised if you find a better spot than one west. The two wet corns are about as good of a food start as you will get.

Seraiel said:

Don't move the scout 1NE on the hill but 1E on the Forrest, because like that, you can pick up the Hut next turn once you settled your capital.

Click to expand...

Hm, but I won't reveal the tiles east of the corn, would I? The tile 1N of the hut is certainly a hill and that's the only tile that would become visible when I move the scout 1E (unless there are more hills behind that, I think). Is arriving at the hut quickly a higher priority than exploring the surroundings here?

schadenfreude said:

The two wet corns are about as good of a food start as you will get.

Click to expand...

The eastern corn is actually dry (not a fresh water tile). But it's still very good food supply, I think.

I don't see any value in popping the hut earlier. Scout NE, then most likely settle 1W.

After settling, you should not select a tech until the hut is popped. You have to pick a tech when asked, but after this click the tech bar so the row of tech icons appear. Then leave it like that when you end turn. You can do this the first 5 turns of a game, after that a tech is selected automatically. You will still produce the beakers and they will be stored. As soon as you end turn with a tech selected, they will all be put into that tech. In case you happen to pop a tech you are teching from a hut, the beakers you already invested into that tech are effectively lost. Better to not invest beakers into any tech until the hut is popped.

Turn 0 - Scout moved

Scout moved 1NE - No new resources, see screenshot. Settler not moved yet.

Isn't the hill 1SW from the settler an option instead of 1W? I could imagine that the hill isn't good because I'd have no +3 food tile in first ring (possibly at least, the dark tiles in the west are unknown atm) and the city would grow slower to size 2. On the other hand do I want to have so many hills in my capital's BFC?

Todelotti said:

Turn 0 - Scout moved

Scout moved 1NE - No new resources, see screenshot. Settler not moved yet.

Isn't the hill 1SW from the settler an option instead of 1W? I could imagine that the hill isn't good because I'd have no +3 food tile in first ring (possibly at least, the dark tiles in the west are unknown atm) and the city would grow slower to size 2. On the other hand do I want to have so many hills in my capital's BFC?

Click to expand...

You definately want to pickup the Stone because it's a very strong tile and will allow you to build the Mids. A few hills in the capital are only good, as long as they're green. Don't forget that Buro also gives +50% and one needs strong production for things like i. e. Universities, Banks or Oxford.

Seraiel said:

You definately want to pickup the Stone because it's a very strong tile and will allow you to build the Mids.

Click to expand...

"Mids" means?

Turn 2

OK, moved the settler in turn 0 to 1W (via 1NW). Then in turn 1 Scout moved to the hill 1N of the village. Capital founded, Worker in production (Worker is OK as first unit?). Selected Agriculture as tech but then "parked" research as elitetroops described. Turn 2: Scout moved to village (via 1E). Village gave 31 gold, no tech.

I think, Agriculture has prio to improve the corn tiles (the west corn first because it will be irrigated after farming), right? I would then explore the terrain with the scout counterclockwise around the capital (going a few tiles east now, then north, then west, then south). Can I skip exploring the tundra for the moment? Might be less interesting...

About scout movement: I will try to end a scout turn always on a tile with at least 50% defense bonus. I've lost a scout very early in the last game on a 25% hill (against a panther) and felt blind for centuries...

Agriculture will be in before the Worker is finished. I would go The Wheel->Pottery after that. Or would you prefer Mining or even Animal Husbandry?

Mids = Pyramids. You might want to visit the front page of the site forum and examine the civ acronyms. Very helpful to someone new to the forums. People posting in the threads frequently use acronyms.

Todelotti said:

"Mids" means?

Turn 2
Worker in production (Worker is OK as first unit?). Worker first on a non-coastal start is correct nearly 100% of the time, and you shouldn't worry yet about the rare occasions when it's not. Sometimes worker first is even best on coastal starts.

I think, Agriculture has prio to improve the corn tiles (the west corn first because it will be irrigated after farming), right? Without question.

I would then explore the terrain with the scout counterclockwise around the capital (going a few tiles east now, then north, then west, then south). Can I skip exploring the tundra for the moment? Might be less interesting... Areas where you are unlikely to settle like tundra, deserts, and heavy jungle should typically be bypassed in early scouting. Do not get so caught up in going in a nice circle that you miss important stuff though. For example, if you find gold nearby you should check the area around the gold for food and such before moving on.

About scout movement: I will try to end a scout turn always on a tile with at least 50% defense bonus. I've lost a scout very early in the last game on a 25% hill (against a panther) and felt blind for centuries... You don't need to do that until animals start appearing which is a little ways in.

Agriculture will be in before the Worker is finished. I would go The Wheel->Pottery after that. Or would you prefer Mining or even Animal Husbandry?

Click to expand...

Personally i would go Mining next and mine one of the river grass hills after farming the corn tiles. It doesn't look like you will tech AH here which means you probably want BW to locate copper unless you are comfortable defending yourself against the barbs with AGG Warriors. I don't really see this start as a good candidate for Alpha first to trade for BW.

Mining > BW > TW > Pottery is the safer play. TW > Pottery > Mining > BW or Mining > TW > pottery > BW are a bit riskier.

AH without AH food sources around is a poor tech selection unless you are playing a civ like Egypt or Persia.

Map info that you get while teching Ag could influence your next tech though, so don't get locked into one thing.

Todelotti said:

Agriculture will be in before the Worker is finished. I would go The Wheel->Pottery after that. Or would you prefer Mining or even Animal Husbandry?

Click to expand...

This sounds fine, with Wheel -> Pottery after Agriculture and the worker improving both corns, starting with west first. After that I'd like Mining, then it depends a bit on the surroundings what you pick next. But cross that road when you get there. Probably fine to play on a bit, the first worker should improve the corn, and you can alternatively stop when you get him out or when choosing the next tech after Agri. You got some nice tiles for cottaging, though, so if the timing is okay with the worker improving both corns and you getting Pottery in time, that seems like a good idea. If it's a little off the worker can road the stone for instance, and the 2nd corn so you can trade that away, hopefully for a happiness resource.

I had TW->Pottery prefered as well. However, Izuul has a point to go Mining->BW first for safety and protection! Didn't think about that at all. Well, there are still 7 or 8 turns to go before we need to decide.

Mids=Pyramids, will keep that in mind. My acronym list I found on the forum here didn't contain this abbreviation. (We are aiming for Pyramids perhaps? Cool, I never tried the Mids... )

Turn 3

Coast, crabs and a second tribal village discovered. I kept research on halt. Will see next turn what gift the village has.

However, I already violated my own rule to end a scout turn on a >=50% defense tile. I'm afraid it's too restrictive for an effective exploration. Cross fingers to not meet a panther...

Turn 4

Got map from village. Nice! A lot more visible now. Proceeding in north direction...

That gold looks very enticing, so check out what's around it.

Pangaea said:

That gold looks very enticing, so check out what's around it.

Click to expand...

Oh sorry, I was already going into the north I thought for a moment to check out the dark tiles around the gold but then isn't that too far away for a second city? Anyway with further map exploration there is a spot with the gold + cow + 3 flood plains possible.

Turn 9

- Capital borders pushed
- Buddhism founded in a distant land
- Met Mansa Musa (coming from the dark in the east)
- Third tribal village gave 51 gold (82 gold now in total)
- In the upper NW corner I can see new borders (blue-violet coloured)
- Agriculture will be finished next turn

Waiting for possibly other opinions on tech path now. Izuul votes for Mining->BW, Pangaea for TW->Pottery. The latter would also be my own spontaneous choice. However, not sure how serious I should take Izuul's arguments about getting fast to stronger units than just warriors? What do the others think?