GOTM20 - Turn Trading Challenge

[Smirk]

I finally had some time to deal with my gotm20 adequately, I ended up forcing a loss because I didn't have the time to finish and wanted to submit something before the deadline.

Anyway, the year was 1285AD when I realized I didn't have Rubber and it was sorely needed for my expansion efforts. Brennus was pulling at his leash to get at me so I gave him a fat 200+gpt deal to keep him off my back for another 20 turns, while I try to get some rubber and upgrade my out of date military. He had some rubber one tile away from two of my cities so I rushed some culture to get the expansion quickly and after about 8 turns this failed. I saved the game then knowing I wouldn't have time to play this well and gave away my cities and got my capital captured. This save I went back to the turn before I surrendered, played thru to 1385AD when the deal ends normally and now this is the challenge...


Background:
Brennus hate us, we hate them. They have rubber one tile out from two of our city borders. Culture expansion failed so require military might to take Mohacs. Our ~200gpt deal just ended with Brennus. A ~100gpt deal ended with our moderate friend Shaka who also is the only one with surplus rubber. The deal with Brennus held off a war 20 turns ago.


Technology
We are well behind in techs, but we have Replaceable Parts. The only other tech that could be of use is Refining, but only if it opens up a trade oppurtunity with Oil.


Alliances
Brennus has a MPP with both Aztecs and Japan and could pull in a number of others, notably Osman. Osman has Sipahi in unknown number which we do not want to face. Japan has one city on our continent so should not be able to field many units, Aztecs can likely be ignored completely. The biggest potential friend would be Shaka and he will not have a problem with an alliance versus Brennus, but it will cost. In the event Osman declares war France can act as a buffer between us and Osman. Hiawatha has some cities north of Brennus', so can also lend some miltary support.


Active Deals
There are trades with Japan and Aztecs for a total of ~100gpt for luxuries and resources, this will be gone as soon as their MPP kicks in. Brennus is primed to attack, with many units in my territory and has been doing this for some time. He will declare war if you ask him to leave. This evidenced from an early war many turns ago. (Also the trades mentioned in Background.)


Military Notes
Other military mobilizations, three conquistadors are ready to rush in a cut out one supply of wine. Another one on the north border can cut off one supply of incense. Some cavalry can disconnect a few northern cities and cut them off completely in addition to removing horses (and the forementioned supply of incense and some iron) from the bulk of his cities. Brennus has four iron, two rubber and two coal. Only disrupting the rubber and coal could potentially ruin deals and future trades, but only one rubber is reachable.
The bulk of my cities are worthless culture containers so drafting can supplement the military.


Other
This is a 100k culture game with 60k currently and 350gpt going towards maintenance, destroying all of that will no doubt open up a lot of extra gold but that would defeat the purpose. Also Celts and Japan are the only two other culture leaders so their culture production has to be interrupted to ensure an easy 100k victory. I would guess at this point we have enough production to outpace them, but there is no way to find this out for sure (that is without 10kg and spying). Both of them are impressed, while everyone else is admirers or in awe. I estimate 100k culture would be achieved in 50 turns, as long as no one holds that up.


Objectives
The best case would be to get Rubber and a good military alliance to take a few Celt cities, notable Mohacs, leaving enough gold for infantry upgrades. There really isn't enough military to withstand Brennus alone, and the cities are not in very defendable positions. You can be attacked from many directions and there are a lot of cities to defend. Some of them will be lost without a doubt, but the ones in danger are fairly new and will not impact the culture generation much.



One final note on trading, all the civs will trade for peace, we are at least doubly powerful. Also the trades with Brennus and Shaka are peace trades so you can't free the gpt until you have selected to renegotiate. After which the gold is available but you'll have to mentally add it based on what your gpt was before opening the trade window.


I'll be posting my go at this turn of trading below so consider it a spoiler. I played out a few more turns afterwards to see the effect of my trading, but I wouldn't want to finish the game, diety culture games are not for the faint of heart.


Here is the saved game, this is for PTW 1.21.

gotm20_turntrading_1385AD.zip

[Smirk]

*** SPOILER ***


* Phase 1 - Brennus
- currently at 78gpt
- dial down entertainment now at 139gpt
- peace deal with Brennus releases 195gpt now at 334gpt
renegotiate peace with Brennus giving furs, world map and 334gpt for Scientific Method, Communism, Refining, Sanitation, Espionage and 2g
- couldn't get Steel or his remaining 2g
demand Steel until Brennus is Furious (started at Annoyed)
ask Brennus to remove his troops, he declares war on me
- back at 334gpt


* Phase 2 - Brennus' Buddies
renegotiate peace with Toku giving 334gpt for 6050g
renegotiate peace with Monte giving nothing for world map and 99g (he didn't have much else)
- plans changed Brennus only has one supply of Saltpeter and Oil, can potentially cut them
two conquistadors destroy rails and roads to Saltpeter, move towards Oil next
Japan and Aztecs declare war from MPP
- now at 251gpt


* Phase 3 - Sorting the Rest
- can't get MPP or alliance from Osman at all
- can't get MPP or alliance from Lincoln at all
- very expensive to get MPP with Hia but can get alliance for 3340g
- pretty expensive to get MPP with Shaka but can get alliance for Dyes and 2310g
- can get MPP with Joan for Saltpeter and 2580g or an alliance with Saltpeter, Horses and 1030g
- can trade my Ivory and Incense but its not surplus
- Joan needs Horses, Iron, Saltpeter, Incense and Ivory (has Steel)
- Shaka needs Dyes and Ivory (has Atomic Theory and Rubber)
- Lincoln needs Saltpeter, Oil, Furs, Dyes and Ivory (has Steel)
- Hia and Osman do not need anything
traded Lincoln Furs for 9gpt
traded Lincoln Dyes for 12gpt
traded Lincoln Oil for 23gpt
- Lincoln still has 1gpt
- now at 295gpt


* Phase 4 - Shaka
- can trade 2055g, Dyes and world map for alliance
- can trade 115gpt, Dyes and world map for alliance
- can trade 2535g, Dyes and world map for Rubber
- can trade 141gpt, Dyes and world map for Rubber
- can trade 1320g, 295gpt, Dyes and world map for MPP
- peace deal with Shaka releases 92gpt now at 387gpt
- can trade 248gpt for Rubber and alliance
- can trade Dyes and 224gpt for Rubber and alliance
- can trade Dyes, world map and 221gpt for Rubber and alliance
renegotiate peace giving Dyes, world map and 221gpt for Rubber, world map and alliance


* Phase 4 - Hia
- can trade 3040g, for alliance
- can trade 166gpt and 55g, for alliance
renegotiate peace giving 69gpt, 1500g for alliance


* Phase 5 - Joan
- can trade Saltpeter, Horses, 2290g for MPP
- can trade Saltpeter, Horses, 72gpt, 1000g for MPP
traded Saltpeter, Horses, 72gpt, 990g and world map for MPP



This ended the turn, Shaka and Hia were with me at war with Brennus, this would significantly occupy him. He took one of my cities which I took back. I think the only reason he managed to get it was I has to cycle upgrading my units and had many conscripts and muskets filling holes. After that initial bit and my units were all upgraded I maintained the defense easy enough, but fending off small ambuses by Toku and Osman drew away my artillery so it took a while until I could mount an offensive against Mohacs. Hia destroyed the northern cities improvement with a ton of bombing runs, although he didn't appear to try and take any cities for the first 10 turns which I played.

Since Osman was undeclared on this turn, I didn't know which side he would come out on, although I guessed against me. Shortly after this turn one of his 12 pop cities flipped and that sealed my fate. He sent an attack force of about 10 Sipahi which took a city then Joan came in on it and acted as the proper buffer she was intended to be. However, Joan took the city I lost even though I was the one who ended up having to kill the Sipahi, but during this time she lost a couple of her own cities.

The other civs drew lines and the people I got in this turn turned out on my side in the world war, and the others on the other side. Osman and Lincoln were the exceptions, but they came out on opposite sides, both were the smallest and weakest civs, so it pays to be neutral.

In hindsight it might have been better to wait until Osman committed and then got an alliance against him since he was already thru Joan's land by the time he attacked me. I even sent a unit down there to force an attack but passed his Sipahi stacks in the night.

[gozpel]

Yikes, all this write up and not a single response?

Well, you got one now

[Great Mattezuma]

Well now you've got 2!!!

worship the great MATTEZUMA

Moderator Action: For spamming? - not in these forums.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/faq.php?faq=updated_rules_2011


merry christmas
:santa: :saiyan:

[BkGreatWarnut]

Interesting...I enjoy reading write ups of games...I wish I could find some people here at SVSU to play over LAN because there is firewall against internet games that no one knows how to get around...

[DJMGator13]

Is the the Zip file still available? The link doesn't appear to work and I manually checked the Uploads4 folder for it and could not locate it.

[Shadow Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BkGreatWarnut

Interesting...I enjoy reading write ups of games...I wish I could find some people here at SVSU to play over LAN because there is firewall against internet games that no one knows how to get around...

reinstall windows, kill routers

[Methos]

Anyway the mods could reattach the link please? I need to seriously work on my trading and was hoping to use this.

[DJMGator13]

@Methos - Here is a link to a trading exercise we used in the TDG. Give it a try.

[Methos]

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely give them a try.

Again, thanks!

[AlanH]

Originally Posted by Methos

Anyway the mods could reattach the link please? I need to seriously work on my trading and was hoping to use this.

Sorry, it's not possible. Thunderfall clears out the uploads folders periodically, and this thread was opened 2 years ago. Uploads4 was prolly cleared a year ago as we are on Uploads9 now, so it's gone to the great bit bucket in the sky. Try PM to Smirk, he may still have the save?

Meanwhile Moonsinger's trading exercise was excellent, and there are lots of ideas discussed in that thread. But note that this kind of early contacts and maps trading opportunity doesn't happen in the same way in C3C.