CG11 - Culture-less Conquest!

[cgannon64]

Sound crazy? Good. Here are the rules.

Civ: The Mongols, and I'm being firm on that. I know they suck, but they fit the idea of this game perfectly.

Level: Monarch or Emperor.

Map: Pangea, 70% water, the rest is normal. Oh yeah, I'm also going to make it a young world so hopefully the Keshiks will be able to roam in the mountains. Created in-game.

Version: PTW 1.21.

Victory: Domination or Conquest acceptable, all on.

Enemies: Max.

Variants: - We may build NO buildings that create culture, of any kind. No excuses. I've checked around, there are still lots of buildings we can build. If you want I'll post the full list.
- We may build no wonders.
- We MAY, however, build the Forbidden Palace in one of our cities. We may NOT do any palace jumps, however.
- There are only two cities in our empire that may have culture - our capital and our Forbidden Palace city. If we capture a city with a cultural building, we are to SELL it off immediately. Not only do we Mongols have no time to build our own culture, we view our enemies culture as only good when burned to the ground.
- We should make our dotmaps and city planning around this - i.e., realize that know city will have more than 9 working citizens and will be the original square territory.

Roster:
Myself
(OPEN)
(OPEN)
(OPEN)
(OPEN)

[Bacon King]

I'll play, sounds interesting.

Can we build other cultural improvement in our Palace/forbidden palace cities?

[Arathorn]

May I recommend reading

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=17432

for some insight?

Arathorn

[CivGeneral]

I would like to sign up .

[betazed]

Originally posted by cgannon64
Victory: Domination or Conquest acceptable, all on.

IMHO, with this variant these are the only two victory conditions possible (apart from Histograph). With no culture you will be stuck with towns (no metrprolis etc. apart from Palace and FP) and it will take eons to build spaceship parts. You will reach a histograph before that.

Also, I guess you are planning for a very dense build to use all tiles, right? Watch out for corruption.

P.s. It's a very interesting variant.

[cgannon64]

@ betazed: I know that we won't get any of the other victory options, but I leave them on so the AIs have a chance to get them. It keeps it interesting.

@ Bacon King: No, we may not.

Lineup:
Myself-->I'll make the game now
Bacon King
CivGeneral
Arathorn (are you in?)
Betazed (are you in?)

BTW, Arathorn, I see its been done already. Oh well. I expect that from the masters of the variant at RBCiv. I'll check that out for tips though.

[CivGeneral]

What if we capture an enemy city that contains a wonder? Would that City be the exception to the variant?

[betazed]

As much as I would love to join this SG, unfortunately I have to pass this. I am already participating in a few Sgs and I am deep into some of my own games.

However, I will be following this keenly. Good luck.

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by CivGeneral
What if we capture an enemy city that contains a wonder? Would that City be the exception to the variant?

I'm going to think about that. It would seem cruel to destroy a wonder...

[Arathorn]

I'm in over my head in SGs. I had my fill of no-culture fighting in the aforementioned RBC game, too. I'm not in. I was just pointing to an example game with no culture that you can use to give cities more than 9 squares and other good ideas.

Arathorn

[cgannon64]

OK, the roster then:

Myself-->I'll play today
Bacon King
CivGeneral
(OPEN)
(OPEN)

The start:



The save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG11-4000BC.zip

[Bacon King]

Is that flood plain or plains by the river? Everyone uses watercolor terrain, and I can't see a thing in it........

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Bacon King
Is that flood plain or plains by the river? Everyone uses watercolor terrain, and I can't see a thing in it........

That's plains. I find watercolor terrain easier to see than regular.

Anyway, I'm playing now.

[cgannon64]

Here are my 20 (sorry, I don't have time to play 40 - next player should play 20 also).

[Turn 1 - 4000 BC] I move the Scout and the Worker. I move the Settler one tile NE, so we don't waste a Wheat Plains.

[Turn 2 - 3950 BC] Krakorum founded, Scout started.

[Turn 3 - 3900 BC] Bronze started at max, for 27 turns. Scout to the North pops maps, and we see a blue border to the North.

[Turn 4 - 3850 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 5 - 3800 BC] We meet Korea. He was Bronze Working and Alphabet, we have Warrior Code. When I offer him Code and 12g, its "close", so I decide to go minsci for a turn or two so we can get enough raw gold to trade.

[Turn 6 - 3750 BC] Nothing, no deal yet.

[Turn 7 - 3700 BC] Woot! We pop a settler to the North. He'll make the trek back to our territory to build a city. I trade Code and 35g for Bronze Working, and we start The Wheel at 40 turns with 3gpt.

[Turn 8 - 3650 BC] Gems spotted to the SW.

[Turn 9 - 3600 BC] Mine done, road started.

[Turn 10 - 3550 BC] Nothing.

[Turn 11 - 3500 BC] Scout->Spear in Krakorum. Pink border spotted to the W/SW.

[Turn 12 - 3450 BC] Krarkorum's borders expand. That the second-to-last time I'll see that message this game. We contact France. Joan has Masonry and Alphabet, we have Bronze Working, Pottery, and Warrior Code. We can do her techs and 10g for my techs. I accept. We now have parity with France and are up Masonry with Wang (I'm sorry, but I'm callig him Wang the whole game. ). We pop Burial and see a Green border very very close to the SE. We seem to be in a dry valley surrounded by fertile - but occupied - territory.

[Turn 15 - 3350 BC] We spot a Green border near Korea. Damn, this map is crowded!

[Turn 16 - 3300 BC] Ta-Tu founded (gah! Not the lesbian pop group!) I notice something very interesting - by sharing a border with a pre-existing city, our non-culture cities can have more than 9 squares of territory. For example, Ta-Tu has 11. I'll take a pic of it. We contact Greece, and we're up FOUR techs on him. Alright. We ALSO contact the Aztecs, and we are up FOUR techs on him.

[Turn 17 - 3250 BC] Spear->Settler in Krakorum.

[Turn 18 - 3200 BC] We see a coast to the South, a coast that is running towards Krakorum. Therefore we probably sit along a harbor.

[Turn 19 - 3150 BC] Yes, there is some grassland to the South and then water.

[Turn 20 - 3100 BC] We pop a Warrior. We see a Hoplite/Settler pair heading towards some beautiful territory that is directly south of Krakorum. Damn.

[Notes] First of all, consider a blockade, if possible. That would be great. We need to expand rapidly, because this continent is very crowded. Also, before you build ANYTHING - even a granary, a barracks, whatever - please check the Pedia to see if it produces culture. Good luck, I'll make a dotmap.

Here is the dotmap. It was very strange to fill in square cities.



And the save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CG11-3100BC.zip

[inudog]

Originally posted by cgannon64
[Turn 16 - 3300 BC] Ta-Tu founded (gah! Not the lesbian pop group!) I notice something very interesting - by sharing a border with a pre-existing city, our non-culture cities can have more than 9 squares of territory. For example, Ta-Tu has 11. I'll take a pic of it. We contact Greece, and we're up FOUR techs on him.

lurker's comment:
I'm surprised that you were not aware of this. I believe this informatin will be critical in city placement. Have you considered using Lanes(TM) like in the other game that was linked to earlier in this thread? If you haven't checked it out, I would suggest that you have a look at it. You should be able to get better than 9 tiles for almost all of your cities you place them well.


Sorry if that sounded harsh, I didn't intend it to.

inudog

[cgannon64]

I was aware of it, Inudog, but it was something I don't usually think about it for city placement. I simply meant that we should consider it in this game.

[hotrod0823]

[delurk]

You May want to check this out to confirm but IIRC you can capture wonders and they will not add culture to your city. I don't think any ohter culture buildings (temples, libraries etc) survive being captured. I have only seen markets, banks, harbors, barracks etc.

[/lurk]

[LKendter]

Yes - wonders have NO culture value if captured.

Also, you really want to take advantage of the auto-border joining.

City1 aaa bbb ccc City2

In the case above when you build city2 it claims ccc. It will then find itself one border from aaa. At the point bbb also becomes your. You can spread you cities out a bit more.

FYI - You really want natural luxuries to survive. Later in the game the luxury prices will get obscene.

[cromagnon]

Originally posted by LKendter
Yes - wonders have NO culture value if captured.

If we capture a city with a cultural building, we are to SELL it off immediately

LKendter is correct. Furthermore, you don't have to worry about capturing cultural buildings, as they are automatically destroyed when you conquer a city.

[cgannon64]

Thanks for the info, guys. Wonders will be kept then. I'm a little unsure about the science of the connected borders, though, maybe someone who has free time could alter my dotmap with that in mind?