40-turns gambites and some questions

[Sphynx]

Several times I met here the words like "40 turns gambites". People refer to this term without explaining - so it must be quite common. Is there any thread here on CivFans explaining how these gambites really work?

If I start playing on continental map and I have a continent for my own (no AIs on this continent) - would it be more beneficial if I build granary first (in the very first capital city) and ONLY AFTER THAT start creating settlers? Or it would be better to start with the temple to create Wonder-City in the capital and use the granary tactics with the second/third city?

P.S. all questions refer to Monrch level and up, PTW 1.21

Thanks beforehand.

[Yndy]

40 turn gambits are researching a tech with minimum science (1 scientist preferably). You will get the tech in 40 turns and if you choose carefully you can even be the first to get that tech. Most common 40 turn gambits: Polytheism, Printing Press, Chemistry, Economics, Steel.

Second question, answer is yes, you should build a granary first. I don’t really see hoe the Wonder City fits the idea unless you’re talking about building the Pyramids. In that case, no granary necessary.

[Sphynx]

Originally posted by Yndy
40 turn gambits are researching a tech with minimum science (1 scientist preferably). You will get the tech in 40 turns and if you choose carefully you can even be the first to get that tech. Most common 40 turn gambits: Polytheism, Printing Press, Chemistry, Economics, Steel.

Thank you for the information. Does this mean that if I research Chemistry (for example) I will accumulate enough money to buy 5-10 technologies which I would get anyway using max science methods? At the stage of chemistry I usually have about 400-500 gpt (if I am not in GA) I really don't think 16000-20000 will be enough to buy even 5 techs from greedy AI's. What is the point in these gambits then?

[Hawkster]

The point is to generate gold to use in tech trading by not researching or by doing minimum research (and to free gold for upgrading units as well). By careful selection of the techs to pursue with this gambit it is possible to either keep pace with or exceed the AI techs - 16000-20000 should be more than enough to buy techs from the AI - but most players usually trade techs rather than just gold.

A read through the sucession games in the Stories and Tales forum shows how this gambit works very well in some situations.

[Sphynx]

Thanks, now clear.

[kb2tvl]

I have always put my tech slider to 10% and proceeded on a 40 turn research pace. This is most beneficial if you go from 10% to 20% and don't double the number of turns needed to get the tech. You can also have a city with lots of food and no production with a single scientist which will give you 40 turns and 0% on the tech slider.

Depending on the game, look for the ignorant civs and see what they have. Then plan to trade with them for a purchased tech. You have to take 5 or 10 min scheming on which tech to trade but when your plan comes together, you will probably be at tech parity with the majority of the civs.

There are some caveats. If your trying to get a tech with a wonder and that civ will get that wonder then they will be disinclined to sell it. Or if that wonder is a prebuild for a wonder that they are about to research then they will be disinclined to sell it off as well.

[zorven]

kb2tvl - If you are going to set your tech slider at 10%, would you be better off setting it at 0% and changing one laborer in one city to a scientist? You will still get the tech in 40 turns and you might save more gold.

[kb2tvl]

but that would be micromanagement zorven! and I really dislike that level of analness. That is why I prefer monarch level over diety level. monarch level gives way more flexibility when it comes to tech and more use of govenors which translates in to more fun!

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by zorven
kb2tvl - If you are going to set your tech slider at 10%, would you be better off setting it at 0% and changing one laborer in one city to a scientist? You will still get the tech in 40 turns and you might save more gold.

Later in the game, yes. While you are still in the ancient era, then that depends, because when you have only a couple/few cities, you can't afford to stunt the growth of one of those cities to make a scientist. (a scientist eats 2 food, but doesn't provide any food).

The big pay-off for the 40-turn gambits are that you can sell that tech to each AI for the other techs. And you got that tech for only ~40 gold, when it would cost you hundreds of gold to research at full speed. Even if an AI does beat you to it, you can just keep researching it and so it costed you only 40 gold, and the AI will nearly always charge more than 40 gold for you to buy it from them.

40 turn gambits are easier to pull off on the larger maps with minimal civs (slow tech pace, and if the AI don't have too many contacts yet).

[kb2tvl]

some techs I would consider teching at 40 turns would be republic and some of those early midevil techs(on monarch level). I try to get my cities laid down and a couple markets before jumping to rep. I also try to get embassies established as well. During the early midevil period, your nation is very weak and I try to cash rush buildings in core cities. This pays off nicely once you get to industrial times and at the pace of 40turns/tech, you don't lose a whole lot during this time frame. The other techs I saw mentioned(Polytheism, Printing Press, Chemistry, Economics, Steel) I generally get in trades. As a matter of fact, Printing Press and Economics are both optional techs.

[Bamspeedy]

Polytheism I usually get 95% of the time, if I start on it as soon as it's possible, or right after doing a 40 turn gambit on something like writing. If you wait too long before starting on it, then of course the AI will beat you to it. Thats the same way with all the techs. The AI will get them all sooner or later, but you want the ones that they are slow at getting. Printing Press is an optional tech, but still worth alot of money.

I generally do the 10% science in the ancient era. After that, the 40-turn researches don't pay off as often, especially if the whole world isn't at war and most, or all of them have contact with each other.

Ancient era:
40-turn gambits usually work on Polytheism, mathematics, currency and literature.
They don't usually work on Iron Working, Wheel, Horseback Riding, Map making, Construction or Republic (unless you were far ahead in techs that the AI couldn't start researching them yet because they still lacked the prerequisites).

[Qitai]

I wouldn't do a 40 turn gambit on republic. I would pay 1000gc just to get republic 10 turns earlier.

[kb2tvl]

Qitai, maybe, maybe not. After reaching republic you need a few markets built and you really need to be done building settlers. I agree that if you did not aggresively trade techs or got left in the dust tech wise then I definitly agree that buying monarchy or republic is a good way to go. Cash does flow nicely in rep but it is not a very stable government before you get your core city/cities up and running. That said, it will depend on how good you are at trading, how fast you meet civs and how fast tech progresses. I generally have a temple/library/coloseum and market either built or all close to built in my main city. These are the minimum I try for unless I am in the middle of a wonder and then I would rather not go into anarchy.