A question for Atari....

[Xen]

well, we all know know that my beloved Byzantines are in (if you, Mr. Jeff_Atari/benevolent Atari spokes person reading this do not know, every single person on these forums is ready to kill me over my never ending spam in support of the Byzantine empire)

but now, for that question...

how do you pick the leaders for civs that you do? Now this come up from the fact that i have heard that Theodora will be the leader of the Byzantines, and although indeed being a helping hand to Justinian, she was hardley the power behind the throne, and even Justinian can hardley be called the greatet ruler of Byzantium- sure he had it at its largest extent, but he was not the best (perhaps Heraclius I is though), but the poor choice in leaders makes me wonder on what criteria you based your choice on...

oh, and like always, when might the next little info tease fest come out....

[kring]

In Civ3 and PtW, part of what determined the leader was gender. Some female leaders were chosen (Joan, Isabella for examples).

[The Last Conformist]

Justinian's repeatedly been hailed as the greatest Byzantine emperor. There's no reason you have to agree with that assessement, but it's pretty commonly accepted.

Do we know whether this is Justinian's Theodora, or the Theodora who was reigning empress for a while in the mid-11th C? The later lady isn't exactly one of the more memorable Byzantine rulers, but ruler nonetheless.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by Xen
well, we all know know that my beloved Byzantines are in (if you, Mr. Jeff_Atari/benevolent Atari spokes person reading this do not know, every single person on these forums is ready to kill me over my never ending spam in support of the Byzantine empire)

but now, for that question...

how do you pick the leaders for civs that you do? Now this come up from the fact that i have heard that Theodora will be the leader of the Byzantines, and although indeed being a helping hand to Justinian, she was hardley the power behind the throne, and even Justinian can hardley be called the greatet ruler of Byzantium- sure he had it at its largest extent, but he was not the best (perhaps Heraclius I is though), but the poor choice in leaders makes me wonder on what criteria you based your choice on...

oh, and like always, when might the next little info tease fest come out....

The REAL question is whether she is a hot looking babe

[warpstorm]

LOL, you never change, Kitten.

[Pangur Bán]

Justinian's reign is seen by many historians as disasterous. There was several questions in my Med/Ren history exam implying that Justinian was not such a successful emperor; here's one I remember:

"Who contributed most to the breakdown of the Roman Meditteranean: the Germanic tribes; the Arabs; or Justinian?"


I don't no what blonker has decided to make Theodora the leader, but may that person get the boot for being such a ! I'll believe it when I see it though

[Louis XXIV]

I believe it.

She was probably the most influential women of any of the civilizations. Like Isabella, Joan, and Catherine, she was chosen to have women as well as men in the game.

[aaminion00]

aaaaaahhahahahaha



They got his wife! They got his WIFE!

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
I believe it.

She was probably the most influential women of any of the civilizations. Like Isabella, Joan, and Catherine, she was chosen to have women as well as men in the game.

She was an ex-prostitute and she depended on being Justinian's wife for her power. The thing about the Roman system, is that women could not rule. So having any female leader for the Eastern Roman Empire is simply stupid, never mind Theodora

And if you think her influence was as great as Catherine the Great's or Isabella's - wel'l good luck to you

[Louis XXIV]

I never said that.

I was actually saying that the Dutch, Sumerians, Incas, Mayans, Hittites, or Portugese didn't have a women who did as much.

Although she didn't have power, she had influence and did things. I would rather she wasn't the leader of Byzantine, but I won't be suprised when she is.

[aaminion00]

So let me get this straight... if I want to use the cataphracts... I'd have to play as an ex-whore?

[The Last Conformist]

calgacus: Nice to see historians' interpretations vary that much. But I cannot see how Justinian can be made responsible for the loss of Roman control of the Mediterranean; when he ascended the throne, only the eastern half was under imperial control, when he died almost all.

Women could rule in Byzantium; from the top of my head, I can think of three reigning empresses; Irene, Theodora, and Zoë (coempress with Theodora for a while).

[Inhalaattori]

If they want to choose women leaders.
Queen Bouadicca/Boadicea would have been good choice for celts. I wonder why they didnt choose her. She would have been much better choice than Jean Darc or Theodota.

But the worst choice is definetly Jean Darc. Simply laughable. She never even ruled France.

[Mr Black]

Originally posted by Inhalaattori

But the worst choice is definetly Jean Darc. Simply laughable. She never even ruled France.

WRONG!!!

The worst leader is CLeopatra. She actually sold out her nation.

I agree, that France's leader is also bad, but at least Jeanne d'Arc did something for her country.

Cleo was nothing but a ................... I better not say it.

[LouLong]

Originally posted by aaminion00
So let me get this straight... if I want to use the cataphracts... I'd have to play as an ex-whore?

She was an ex tavern maid for sure. An ex-whore I would not know and wouldn't trust a lot of sources (both erasing this info for official sources and promoting/inventing it for opponents). She was influential in bringing the people towards Justinian and he sure was in love with her (did not make the Taj Mahal for her though ).

Influential in internal politics and through Justinian : yes.
To be the leader of the Byzantines : not really !
But well, to be PC, they need some female leaders and since these won't be Middle-Eastern ones or muslim ones

[Inhalaattori]

Cleopatra is poor choice also. I forgot her.

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by Inhalaattori
But the worst choice is definetly Jean Darc. Simply laughable. She never even ruled France.

Hannibal never ruled Carthage

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
calgacus: Nice to see historians' interpretations vary that much. But I cannot see how Justinian can be made responsible for the loss of Roman control of the Mediterranean; when he ascended the throne, only the eastern half was under imperial control, when he died almost all.

Women could rule in Byzantium; from the top of my head, I can think of three reigning empresses; Irene, Theodora, and Zoë (coempress with Theodora for a while).

Irene was a mother-regent, Theodora was a consort.

The Theodora, and Zoë you speak of never got power permanently. They had to find husbands - which they did!

Women didn't rule; but the there was the office of Augusta, which was an institution. But the Augusta was never head of state. That was the Augustus - who had to be male.

The Roman state was not a monarchy as such, it was a "strategocracy", government by general (although, many emperors inherited their position or obtained power solely by palace deals - these latter were usually deposed). A woman could not be a general or sole head of the army - so she couldn't be head of state. There was no precedent for it, although many decent candidates were availale from the female sex on various occassions.

[Vietcong]

are tahy going to be in?!? i mean thay have the same cap. city as the turks! constantinaopl(spelling) and istambel

[Louis XXIV]

Rome has a city called Byzantine, they are all the same city.