rebuplic and democracy..

[Vietcong]

sholdnt thay have a consule, or some kinda board that must have populer saport for a war befor u can delcear it??? or that forces u into a peace.. the ppl have lil controle over thes goves in civ 3..

[warpstorm]

Do you personally get a chance to vote on the wars that your government declares?

[Vietcong]

but the senate dose, the pres cant declear it, what i mean by pop saport is pop saport by a senate

[Oda Nobunaga]

Certainly some (improved) variant of the old Civ 2 senate could be useful here. There's a thread ("Make Civilization Civilized") in the request forum that's on this very topic.

[warpstorm]

"The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."

Under certain circumstances (national emergency, for example), the president can move troops without explicit congressional approval.

[Xen]

Roman generals often had the free dom to declare war against relativlly minor nations as needed to secure the borders- this is before the empireof course, the best example of such action, is the conquests of Caesar, and the second punic war...

[Oda Nobunaga]

True, but still that changes nothing to the fact that a revamped civ II senate being brought in would help curb just a bit the problem of absolutely non-represenative "democracies" in the game.

The notion that democracies should be vulnerable-er to culture flips (military presence only reduce the chance of flipping to a nation you are at war with...) also stike me as valid.

[EddyG17]

I fact the persident CAN declare war and send arm forces, BUT if he doesn't win in 90 days he has to retreate unless congress gives him authorization to keep going.

[spincrus]

Originally posted by Vietcong
but the senate dose, the pres cant declear it, what i mean by pop saport is pop saport by a senate

Wrong. Being either the French constitution of the fifth republic, or the American constitution after several amendments after the Lincoln era, in a state of emergency, the president must consult the senate, congress, parliament or whatever, but doesn't have to listen to them. Actually, many professors of mine claimed that this is just a loophole in many constitutions around, but some really give this power to the presidents.

This only applies to highly centralized liberal democracies, though.

Remember the 1812 invasion of Washington DC by the British; the president didn't want war, but the congress did, and that's what happened. Especially after Abraham Lincoln, things changed a lot.

But I must repeat; this only happens in highly centralized democracies, where the president is given many, many powers.

[tomart109]

Originally posted by warpstorm
Under certain circumstances (national emergency, for example), the president can move troops without explicit congressional approval.

Or you can just trump up "evidence" of "imminent WMD danger" like our king George W. did, and start whatever war(s) you want. The Congress had no choice but to agree with his scare tactics, and the public ambivalence was TOTALLY ignored.

Moderator Action: This isn't the place for political debates and trolling. Keep the debates to the OT forum, and don't try to start flamewars.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/faq.php?faq=updated_rules_2011

Originally posted by warpstorm
Do you personally get a chance to vote on the wars that your government declares?

No.

[Packer-Backer]

Hey SpincruS, I'm not attacking you for anything you said, just don't always listen to your professor. They don't know squat when it comes to politics.

[Jaybe]

I don't see what your problem is, folks!
The "Senate" is fully represented in Civ3. It's called "War Weariness."

End of Story (Sorry).

[Packer-Backer]

tomart109, two words: Private Message. Prepare for war!

[kring]

Originally posted by Jaybe
I don't see what your problem is, folks!
The "Senate" is fully represented in Civ3. It's called "War Weariness."

End of Story (Sorry).

That isn't the Senate. In Civ2, the Senate could end the war. You could have been sneak attacked by another civ(s) last turn, and the Senate could come along and say war over. With War Weariness, you suffer increasing unrest, which can be handled to some degree by various methods (getting more luxuries, increasing the luxury rate, etc.). That is less powerful than the Senate saying war over. You can continue the war while suffering increasing War Weariness; with the Senate, you couldn't.

[spincrus]

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
Hey SpincruS, I'm not attacking you for anything you said, just don't always listen to your professor. They don't know squat when it comes to politics.

What if they are highly recognized political scientists and theorists in their fields? I'd assume those guys have read more books than any of us here combined

Note: I'm not offended in any way

[Packer-Backer]

I mean some professors in fields that have little to anything to do with politics, even geography and math, think they know everything about everything and try to brainwash their students. I know more about politics than any professor, not like I know the history of every single form of government and every single word in the constitution and bill of rights, but I am more correct than them. And I knew you woren't gonna be offended, and I didn't want it to sound like I was saying that because I didn't want it to seem related. Just fare warning that some professors are idiots when it comes to war and some are socialists. And where are you studying, not to be intrusive, but just out of curiosity.

[Sarevok]

I think it would depend upon the government of course.