Can I Pull Out A Win?

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2003, 06:29 AM

I recently revived a German game I was playing. If you dig through threads, you'll find one about it. Anyway, alot has changed since then. I am now in complete control of my continents, with the Iroquois, Russians, Romans, Zulu, and Koreans out of my way. I have a group of very productive cities. I have engaged in two overseas wars - one to finish off Carthage and get their three cities that make a good buffer zone between the Egyptian north and the American, Mongolian, and English south, and the other I am fighting right now, to conquer the Greek island. The Greek was is mainly for fun, something to do with my huge Cav army before they are totally obsolete (the army was about 80, now its down to about 40 and the Greeks have one city left).

I seemed to be doing great in the same. My plan was simple. I was a few techs behind Egypt, so they would be the first taken out with Panzers. After I reached Motorized Transportation, which I will in a few turns, I would build a decent Panzer army - about 60 lets say - ship them over to a few strategic points in Egypt, and invade. This Panzer army would be for the first strike only, I would use airports to fly in the rest, and since I'd probably be building the Panzers every 1-3 turns in my core cities, I shouldn't have a good reinforcement rate.

There is only one problem. I underestimated how far ahead Egypt was in tech. I got this shocking news when I was least prepared for it. Half my cities were rioting because of the Greek war (though that should be over soon), I had zero offensive units at disposal (all my Cavs are tied up in the Greek war) and Artys I built as a pet project were still in my homeland.

What was the bad news? Egypt was building the UN and the Manhattan Project! This was very, very bad news. I would probably lose a UN vote - Egypt would vote for herself, and I would maybe get one vote out of the American, Mongolian, and English vote. Also, the Manhattan Project was bad because nukes were going to be a part of my invasion strategy. If the war in Egypt got really bogged down, I would use them to clear cities - this would kill my rep, but I'm sure I could take a nuclear-weakened Egypt and America, England, and Mongols at the same time.

I am left with very little options now. The first option is to let the vote occur, in which I would most certainly lose and this long and storied game would come to an end - which I do not want to happen. The other option is to take my Artys, find the UN city, and shell it to the point where it is a low size and all shield-intensive tiles are gone, so it can no longer build the UN. This has a few drawbacks, however. My Artys (I built them as a pet project when I was waiting for Panzers and out of stuff to build) are still in my homeland, all 60 or 70 of them. Egypt is probably about 10 turns away. Now, I can't even be sure of where the UN is being built! Obviously I will investigate where it is, but that will suck up ALOT of cash, because Egypt has alot of productive cities. Also, I can only hope that my Artys get to Egypt before the UN is built, which is not a guarentee, since Egypt has so many productive cities.

And then there is the biggest problem. After I declare war on Egypt and shell the UN city to the ground, I still have to actually fight the war. I can't back down then and make peace, because Egypt has probably had it in for me for a while. I've been seeing sinister troop movements near my Carthage buffer zone. I will probably only have a few Panzers by the time I begin the seige of the UN city, and even then the Panzers will still be in my homeland. I ALSO have to build Transports to take them, and I can't build them very fast - every 4 turns or so. So I need to build up a decent Panzer force - I'd say I need at least 30 for a decent beachhead before I can airlift them in regularly. I also need to get the Transports ready, get some Infantry in there as well, and make sure a good number of my cities have Airports.

All in all, this thread is for advice and so you can watch my adventure, as an easy Monarch game turns into a battle for my life, all becasue of laziness. This renews my opinion of CivIII - never take it easy, no matter what level, because Civs can always surprise you!

EDIT: VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: Am I remembering the airport rule correctly in saying that you can only airlift one unit OUT of a city per turn, but you can airlift IN as many as you want, as long as they come from different cities? If I am wrong, I am screwed.

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2003, 06:36 AM

The Good: I remember that F7 key shows you the city a wonder is being built in. I check it, I see the UN is being built in Memphis, the Manhattan Project in Leptis Magna. I investigate Memphis.

The Bad: The UN will be built in 9 turns. My Artys will get there in 13 by boat. Very, very bad. Memphis would be an ideal spot too, becuase its not too far inland, I would just have to unload the Artys and they would be right nextdoor.

This leads to a whole change in strategy. The only way I can think of getting out of this jam would be rather cheap, but legal - sign an ROP with Egypt, send a few Explorers up there and pillage all the territory around Memphis. IIRC, this will not trigger a war, just make her pissed at me.

I'm rather desperate here. I can use all the tips I can get. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can sign an ROP and I'll post some screenshots.

Doc Tsiolkovski · Oct 31, 2003, 06:41 AM

For me, this boils down to Diplomacy. Get rid of Greece ASAP, declare against Cleo, and drag anyone else into the war against her. That should mean she wouldn't call for a vote (most likely), or she'd even lose if you are generous enough.
The only problem could be: Are you sure you're clearly Civ #2? This isn't exactly reflected by the score, more by actual power.
Anyway, this should give you enough time to capture the UN.

SanPellegrino · Oct 31, 2003, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cgannon64

EDIT: VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: Am I remembering the airport rule correctly in saying that you can only airlift one unit OUT of a city per turn, but you can airlift IN as many as you want, as long as they come from different cities? If I am wrong, I am screwed.

yes that is correct, one out, infinite in.

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2003, 06:55 AM

EDIT: Argh. Screenshots not uploading. Might as well use this for updates then.

Update 1: Blockade moves, but a new one is revealed behind it. Hopefully this will continue and I can get there in 9 turns.

Update 2: Big, big news. Greece is wiped out. I finally get my Explorers to Memphis, but I see that war will be declared if I pillage, and since I only have 5, its not worth it. So I wait. Then, even bigger news. America moves a few Infantry into my territory. I ask them to leave, they refuse, and war is declared. The same turn, I get Motorized Transport, so Panzers are coming in 1 a turn in most places, AND I have an airport in the buffer cities. This will be fun.

But even better is that I manage to get Egypt, Mongols, and England to MA against America. Then I discover that England is fighting the Mongols. I MA with them against the Mongols.

What does this mean? Hopefully, this situation will make America abstain (since they are at war with me and the Egyptians), Mongols abstain (since they are at war with me and the Egyptians), and have England abstain or vote for me. This is a tough situation, however. Egypt with vote for herself, I will vote for myself, and England can go either way. Hopefully they'll go with me because I MA'd with them against the Mongols, but we'll find out. Its also fine if England abstains, because that will make a tie and that will buy me (IIRC) 20 turns.

Whatever happens, I'll play on. I can't miss the fun of a two-fronted Panzer war.

Oh, and by the way, it took Egypt about 20 minutes to move their troops through my buffer zone into America. Thank god I didn't decide to fight them!

Update 3:
Bismarck votes for Bismarck.
Cleopatra votes for Cleopatra
Lincoln abstains.
Elizabeth votes for Bismarck.
Temujin votes for Cleopatra.

Woo! Looks like I pulled out a win on this one, or at least another 20 turns. My plans from here: Invade and conquer America, and hope that Cleo does enough damage to the Mongols that he'll never vote for her again. If I can do that, then next time I should be able to get two votes (me and Liz) and Lincoln and Temujin will abstain (if they're still around).

This game looks alot more winnable now. This just goes to show you that...sometimes its better to be lucky than good.

If America hadn't invaded me, I surely would have lost...

Aggie · Oct 31, 2003, 08:59 AM

@cgannon: pillaging improvements with explorers WILL cause a war and you are the agressor. You also will be known as a deal breaker.

The thing that came to my mind was: Let Egypt build the UN, get MA's with all of the others vs Egypt and you are sure that they will not ask for a vote

11 turns later you will be owning the UN yourself and win!!

EDIT: so you were in the vote? As long as you are the main power in the world, don't worry about the un at all! I hindsight it would have been better to remain friendly vs everyone.

Tony595 · Oct 31, 2003, 01:49 PM

i thimk it's possible though to change another civ's territory with an ROP and some workers

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2003, 01:59 PM

I didn't want to cheat by raping them, Tony.

BTW, I did win. I had lots of free time today so I got alot of playing in. After the aforementioned world war, I conquered America handily while Egypt took care of the Mongols. After that I declared war on England (breaking a deal, yes, but it would be just me and Egypt so I didn't care) and took their whole core in about two turns (Panzers rule!). At this point I acheived Domination while England had about two cities left.

[dance]

Now I'm going to continue playing and get into a nuclear war with Egypt. It will be fun.

Raijer · Oct 31, 2003, 02:30 PM

Awesome cgannon64!

You had the Civ equivalent of "the hardest button to button," but pulled it off anyway! Congrats.

Now I'm in the mood to play as Germany, and get a little Panzer action in myself!

cgannon64 · Oct 31, 2003, 02:38 PM

Is that a White Stripes reference?

Raijer · Oct 31, 2003, 03:32 PM

Of course, how could I resist?

cgannon64 · Nov 01, 2003, 12:10 PM

Wow, that makes two of us on this board.

EDIT: You seen the video for that song? Its awesome!

Sarevok · Nov 01, 2003, 12:24 PM

I think you can win this game, dont worry about it

WildFire · Nov 01, 2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarevok
I think you can win this game, dont worry about it

Um.... He already won.

Helps to read the thread

Oct 31, 2003, 06:29 AM	#1
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	Can I Pull Out A Win? I recently revived a German game I was playing. If you dig through threads, you'll find one about it. Anyway, alot has changed since then. I am now in complete control of my continents, with the Iroquois, Russians, Romans, Zulu, and Koreans out of my way. I have a group of very productive cities. I have engaged in two overseas wars - one to finish off Carthage and get their three cities that make a good buffer zone between the Egyptian north and the American, Mongolian, and English south, and the other I am fighting right now, to conquer the Greek island. The Greek was is mainly for fun, something to do with my huge Cav army before they are totally obsolete (the army was about 80, now its down to about 40 and the Greeks have one city left). I seemed to be doing great in the same. My plan was simple. I was a few techs behind Egypt, so they would be the first taken out with Panzers. After I reached Motorized Transportation, which I will in a few turns, I would build a decent Panzer army - about 60 lets say - ship them over to a few strategic points in Egypt, and invade. This Panzer army would be for the first strike only, I would use airports to fly in the rest, and since I'd probably be building the Panzers every 1-3 turns in my core cities, I shouldn't have a good reinforcement rate. There is only one problem. I underestimated how far ahead Egypt was in tech. I got this shocking news when I was least prepared for it. Half my cities were rioting because of the Greek war (though that should be over soon), I had zero offensive units at disposal (all my Cavs are tied up in the Greek war) and Artys I built as a pet project were still in my homeland. What was the bad news? Egypt was building the UN and the Manhattan Project! This was very, very bad news. I would probably lose a UN vote - Egypt would vote for herself, and I would maybe get one vote out of the American, Mongolian, and English vote. Also, the Manhattan Project was bad because nukes were going to be a part of my invasion strategy. If the war in Egypt got really bogged down, I would use them to clear cities - this would kill my rep, but I'm sure I could take a nuclear-weakened Egypt and America, England, and Mongols at the same time. I am left with very little options now. The first option is to let the vote occur, in which I would most certainly lose and this long and storied game would come to an end - which I do not want to happen. The other option is to take my Artys, find the UN city, and shell it to the point where it is a low size and all shield-intensive tiles are gone, so it can no longer build the UN. This has a few drawbacks, however. My Artys (I built them as a pet project when I was waiting for Panzers and out of stuff to build) are still in my homeland, all 60 or 70 of them. Egypt is probably about 10 turns away. Now, I can't even be sure of where the UN is being built! Obviously I will investigate where it is, but that will suck up ALOT of cash, because Egypt has alot of productive cities. Also, I can only hope that my Artys get to Egypt before the UN is built, which is not a guarentee, since Egypt has so many productive cities. And then there is the biggest problem. After I declare war on Egypt and shell the UN city to the ground, I still have to actually fight the war. I can't back down then and make peace, because Egypt has probably had it in for me for a while. I've been seeing sinister troop movements near my Carthage buffer zone. I will probably only have a few Panzers by the time I begin the seige of the UN city, and even then the Panzers will still be in my homeland. I ALSO have to build Transports to take them, and I can't build them very fast - every 4 turns or so. So I need to build up a decent Panzer force - I'd say I need at least 30 for a decent beachhead before I can airlift them in regularly. I also need to get the Transports ready, get some Infantry in there as well, and make sure a good number of my cities have Airports. All in all, this thread is for advice and so you can watch my adventure, as an easy Monarch game turns into a battle for my life, all becasue of laziness. This renews my opinion of CivIII - never take it easy, no matter what level, because Civs can always surprise you! EDIT: VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION: Am I remembering the airport rule correctly in saying that you can only airlift one unit OUT of a city per turn, but you can airlift IN as many as you want, as long as they come from different cities? If I am wrong, I am screwed. __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2003, 06:55 AM	#5
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	EDIT: Argh. Screenshots not uploading. Might as well use this for updates then. Update 1: Blockade moves, but a new one is revealed behind it. Hopefully this will continue and I can get there in 9 turns. Update 2: Big, big news. Greece is wiped out. I finally get my Explorers to Memphis, but I see that war will be declared if I pillage, and since I only have 5, its not worth it. So I wait. Then, even bigger news. America moves a few Infantry into my territory. I ask them to leave, they refuse, and war is declared. The same turn, I get Motorized Transport, so Panzers are coming in 1 a turn in most places, AND I have an airport in the buffer cities. This will be fun. But even better is that I manage to get Egypt, Mongols, and England to MA against America. Then I discover that England is fighting the Mongols. I MA with them against the Mongols. What does this mean? Hopefully, this situation will make America abstain (since they are at war with me and the Egyptians), Mongols abstain (since they are at war with me and the Egyptians), and have England abstain or vote for me. This is a tough situation, however. Egypt with vote for herself, I will vote for myself, and England can go either way. Hopefully they'll go with me because I MA'd with them against the Mongols, but we'll find out. Its also fine if England abstains, because that will make a tie and that will buy me (IIRC) 20 turns. Whatever happens, I'll play on. I can't miss the fun of a two-fronted Panzer war. Oh, and by the way, it took Egypt about 20 minutes to move their troops through my buffer zone into America. Thank god I didn't decide to fight them! Update 3: Bismarck votes for Bismarck. Cleopatra votes for Cleopatra Lincoln abstains. Elizabeth votes for Bismarck. Temujin votes for Cleopatra. Woo! Looks like I pulled out a win on this one, or at least another 20 turns. My plans from here: Invade and conquer America, and hope that Cleo does enough damage to the Mongols that he'll never vote for her again. If I can do that, then next time I should be able to get two votes (me and Liz) and Lincoln and Temujin will abstain (if they're still around). This game looks alot more winnable now. This just goes to show you that...sometimes its better to be lucky than good. If America hadn't invaded me, I surely would have lost... __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?" Last edited by cgannon64; Oct 31, 2003 at 08:42 AM.

Oct 31, 2003, 08:59 AM	#6
Aggie Deity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 6,278	@cgannon: pillaging improvements with explorers WILL cause a war and you are the agressor. You also will be known as a deal breaker. The thing that came to my mind was: Let Egypt build the UN, get MA's with all of the others vs Egypt and you are sure that they will not ask for a vote 11 turns later you will be owning the UN yourself and win!! EDIT: so you were in the vote? As long as you are the main power in the world, don't worry about the un at all! I hindsight it would have been better to remain friendly vs everyone. __________________ My CIV3 - Succession Games history Permanently(?) cured, thanks for a great time!!!

Oct 31, 2003, 01:59 PM	#8
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	I didn't want to cheat by raping them, Tony. BTW, I did win. I had lots of free time today so I got alot of playing in. After the aforementioned world war, I conquered America handily while Egypt took care of the Mongols. After that I declared war on England (breaking a deal, yes, but it would be just me and Egypt so I didn't care) and took their whole core in about two turns (Panzers rule!). At this point I acheived Domination while England had about two cities left. [dance] Now I'm going to continue playing and get into a nuclear war with Egypt. It will be fun. __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2003, 02:30 PM	#9
Raijer The 736th Beatle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,199	Awesome cgannon64! You had the Civ equivalent of "the hardest button to button," but pulled it off anyway! Congrats. Now I'm in the mood to play as Germany, and get a little Panzer action in myself! __________________ Peace hath her victories, no less renown than War. - Milton Raijer's generic but helpful Civ3 FAQ answer: Tanks, and LOTS of them. Need an avatar? Check out Lyonesse's Avatar Thread here.

Oct 31, 2003, 06:36 AM	#2
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	Good and Bad News The Good: I remember that F7 key shows you the city a wonder is being built in. I check it, I see the UN is being built in Memphis, the Manhattan Project in Leptis Magna. I investigate Memphis. The Bad: The UN will be built in 9 turns. My Artys will get there in 13 by boat. Very, very bad. Memphis would be an ideal spot too, becuase its not too far inland, I would just have to unload the Artys and they would be right nextdoor. This leads to a whole change in strategy. The only way I can think of getting out of this jam would be rather cheap, but legal - sign an ROP with Egypt, send a few Explorers up there and pillage all the territory around Memphis. IIRC, this will not trigger a war, just make her pissed at me. I'm rather desperate here. I can use all the tips I can get. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can sign an ROP and I'll post some screenshots. __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2003, 06:41 AM	#3
Doc Tsiolkovski Deity Join Date: May 2003 Location: Köln, Cologne, Colonia. Finally. Posts: 5,030	For me, this boils down to Diplomacy. Get rid of Greece ASAP, declare against Cleo, and drag anyone else into the war against her. That should mean she wouldn't call for a vote (most likely), or she'd even lose if you are generous enough. The only problem could be: Are you sure you're clearly Civ #2? This isn't exactly reflected by the score, more by actual power. Anyway, this should give you enough time to capture the UN.

Oct 31, 2003, 01:49 PM	#7
Tony595 Warlord Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 113	i thimk it's possible though to change another civ's territory with an ROP and some workers

Oct 31, 2003, 02:38 PM	#10
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	Is that a White Stripes reference? __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Oct 31, 2003, 03:32 PM	#11
Raijer The 736th Beatle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,199	Of course, how could I resist? __________________ Peace hath her victories, no less renown than War. - Milton Raijer's generic but helpful Civ3 FAQ answer: Tanks, and LOTS of them. Need an avatar? Check out Lyonesse's Avatar Thread here.

Nov 01, 2003, 12:10 PM	#12
cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hipster-Authorland, Brooklyn (Hell) Posts: 19,213	Wow, that makes two of us on this board. EDIT: You seen the video for that song? Its awesome! __________________ "Where can we hide in fair weather, we orphans of the storm?"

Nov 01, 2003, 12:24 PM	#13
Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 8,408	I think you can win this game, dont worry about it __________________ Scenario's: Barbarossa 1.2 C3C, The Great War C3C, The Old Empires C3C and PTW, The Three Kingdoms C3C, Red Europe PTW, Blue Europe PTW, Red Europe Aftermath PTW, LOTR: Return of the King PTW, LOTR: The Two Towers PTW - Rei

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