General Research Question

[Rustypipe]

Just wondering how everyone seems to be out teching the comp so badly. Currently i'm playing a game on the eastest setting and i'm barly keeping ahead of the comp ???, i don't know what i'm doing wrong.

I expand early, race for lititure for libraries, build all the proper buildings librarys, temples, ect, put my research bar to 100% for as long as i can hold it like that, and i still barly stay ahead of the comp any idea's?? or stragies how to tech through the tree or to get better research, i also always use a race that is scientific.

Another thing i was wondering about is whenever i swith to republic i lose SO much gold, even tho it can maintain more units per city i don't know why this is ??

Any help would be great

[Louis XXIV]

Make sure every tile being worked has a road.

[Rustypipe]

I do, another thing i find hard in the begining, is to sacrafice 1 pop for a worker is a hard hit in the begining, but i do it

[vbraun]

Originally posted by Rustypipe
Another thing i was wondering about is whenever i swith to republic i lose SO much gold, even tho it can maintain more units per city i don't know why this is ??

Any help would be great

That was one of the reasons i never switched into Rebublic in my Early Civ Carrer. All you have to do is switch to it lower your science untill your at the minumum that you will make money.

P.S. If you build the Great Library turn Science off and let the dough role in

[Louis XXIV]

Aside from that, I can't think of anything. With the added Republic support cost, if you are under the ammount of supported units, you should have a boosted science.

Make sure you trade with the AI often, and sell your techs with everyone. The AI will probably be broke, but it means they might have to decrease spending on techs (giving you a boost).

I remeber when I started, I had trouble out researching the AI because I expanded slowly. It was 1450 AD before I entered the Middle Ages. In lower difficulties, the tech rate will be painfully slow, btw.

[warpstorm]

I trade with the AI.

[vbraun]

Originally posted by warpstorm
I trade with the AI.

Your not the only one. I think... I sometimes trade with the AI...

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by warpstorm
I trade with the AI.

Who doesn't?

On the highest difficulties, trading with the AI is bascially buying techs with the AI, but on cheiftain (the level Rustypipe is playing), tech trading will boost your economy and make it so you don't have to research everything yourself.

[warpstorm]

A lot of beginners seem to not think of actually trading for tech.

[Rustypipe]

I do trade with the AI when i think its worth it, I'm just relentless to do it all the time becuase most the times its bad offers. Also if you ahead in tech trading all your tech away will just bring them back up to your lvl no ?

Also what is a good time period to get to the middle ages usally i hit the middle ages around 1100ad-1300ad depending on the game.

Another thing i was wondering is what is your reaseach points at usally by middle ages or in each age, i think right now i'm in the industrial age and its like just under 400???

Thanks agian for all your input guys

[Louis XXIV]

When you hit different ages depends alot on difficulty levels. In high difficulty levels, you'll hit the end of the tech tree long before it should be (like the modern ages in 1700). In the easiest difficulties, you'll hit things late. This has to do with AI research. If they research faster than you can, you trade for their techs and advance quickly.

You are right to an extent about trading bringing them up to par with you. But make sure you buy (or trade for) techs you don't have. And sell your techs to anyone who can afford it. They do try and rip you off, though. I think the AI seems to pay 10x the point value of a tech (how long it takes to research). However, its hard to remember what these point values are. I think its something like: Pottery -2, CB-3, WC-3, Alpha-5, Mason-4, BW-3, Wheel-3. But the AI won't have 20-30 gold to start with. Its difficult to prevent the AI from ripping you off, but you want to try to trade as much as possible to get as much gold as possible. With lots of gold (eventually the AI will pay Gold per turn) you can increase the science rate to advance quicker (you might even be able to run negative gold per turn if you can afford it). The Great Library is a good way to stockpile gold while getting techs and Copernicus and Newton can increase science a lot.

In my first Chieftain game, I probably didn't reach the Middle Ages until 1400AD. In Regent-Monarch (where I usually play). I reach it closer to 300AD. (maybe a bit later). I've never looked at my score, so I can't help you there.

[Arathorn]

Doing essentially all my own research on Emperor, I reached the Middle Ages about 70 BC, the Industrial Age around 1000 AD or so, Modern 1300 ish, I believe.

Keys, IMO:
- Very few wasted tiles (a tile is wasted if it's not producing commerce fairly early) -- this means reasonable build density and LOTS of workers
- A good FP location, started early (mine started about 1000 BC, which is kinda late, but it was the best spot available)
- Don't let corruption kill you -- courthouses can be as valuable as libraries/universities and are relatively cheap
- Population is power -- granaries and fast growth can power everything else

Good luck with it.
Arathorn

[Rustypipe]

Thanks for the tips Arathorn and everyones

Arathorn I usally do all thouse things but how do you research so quickly without trading ?? could you give a few more tips if you don't mine like, what do you usally go for in the first tech tree or in which order. How do you keep your reseach at 100% while building massive workers and expanding ??, and when you say use every tile, would you consider putting a FP city or a city on a coast a waste becuase you can't irrigate thouse or make commerence so is that a waste ?? at least in the beginging ?

[Rustypipe]

Also which govermets are the best for reseach, i usally go straight for republic and then demracy, and stick with that unless i'm going to do a TON of war then sometimes i switch to communisium, but sometimes i even stick with decmoracy through war if it won't drag on to long.

[Aztek]

Playing on the 4th setting... Reg or Monarch I forget...

My favorite civ are the Persians. They are Scientific which is a good tech boost as well as Industrious which helps you build roads quicker. Finally they have a UU which will help you clear your continent quickly.

First thing I do is set research to 100% and go after as many huts as possible. Start building a wonder around the 4th or 5th city you build. Research in order:

Alphabet
Writing
Philosophy - (get it first it pops you to Literature automatically if you choose literature)
Literature

Switch your wonder to Great Library then prey you build it first... I try to beef up the city building it population wise by shifting pop to maximize shield production in hopes of grabbing it. If you grab it first make contact with as many other civs as you can and get free techs. Research the things that take you the longest and hope you get a few Science great leaders to speed up a few wonders.

This usually keeps me ahead of the AI civs for quite awhile without doing any trading.

But hey Im pretty much a noob

[Arathorn]

Coast makes all kinds of commerce. I try to maximize the number of sea squares I can reach in non-terminal cities.

And, yes, I do trade. Always trade. Didn't get many/any techs, but always trade. Bits of cash here and there. LUXURIES. etc.

Ancient age -- Pottery if I don't have it, then to Republic to make best use of trades or Literature, then to MA (I will often do Republic @ min and pick up much of the AA through trading other monopoly techs or 2fers). Education, banking, whatever, SKIP all MA optional techs unless you pick them up in trade or have a pre-build desperate for a wonder. Industrial -- Steam, Industrialization, depends on situation -- Sanitation or Scientific Method or Replaceable Parts as next goal. Skip the whole Nationalism, Communism, Fascism area. After those three, ToE for Hoover, Corporation (for Wall Street) and cruise. Sometimes it takes more than 6 or 8 turns, but first is first.

For a fast research game (like I played my first C3C epic game), ignore the early wonders, hope for a settler factory, stay in Republic, keep unit costs very low. I build not quite one defensive unit per city, a few offensive units, and a lot of workers, if I'm not going conquering. Don't waste anarchy going to democracy unless you're religious. I actually had lower unit upkeep costs in C3C's republic than I did in PTW, in a couple games. (War? Just use tech lead to sic other AIs on them and you should be fine.)

Keep city improvements to a minimum -- library, university, market, factory REQUIRED. Some places build courthouse, harbor, commercial docks, granary. Use luxury trading for happiness as much as possible (even to the point of signing a RoP and hooking up an AI's lux for them, so you can trade them a tech for it).

Playing for speed, I just made the rounds every 8-12 turns and picked one tech to sell to everybody -- the guy with the most luxes/cash first and then down the line. Kept me plenty rich to make it through the whole game. Since research costs should be cheaper at easier levels, you can probably get the same speed or faster with less than 100% research.

Take this with a bit of salt -- I'm a much better warmonger than peacemonger.

Arathorn

[thestonesfan]

The key is to get one tech ahead of everyone and stay there, at least past the earliest stages of the game. Trade a tech as soon as you get it, to everyone in the same turn. The AI will pay through the nose for most techs - and once you get that cash flow, raise your science rate. Keep doing that throughout the game if you can, and you're almost guaranteed a win. They will be drained from paying you, yet they'll always want your business, so wars are rare. But, you have to keep it up. On harder levels, it's impossible(for me, at least) to stay that step ahead if you aren't dictating the tech trading going on.

Unless they are at war with each other, the AI researches more or less as one civ. You gotta get yo'self a piece of that action.

EDIT - After reading what Arathorn said, I find myself agreeing with all of it except one thing - I think granaries are a necessity. The higher your pop, the more money. A few turns of solid growth, and you'll be surprised with how much more money you can make.

[Arathorn]

Granaries are a necessity in SOME cities but not all cities. I like to build "worker farms" and use population transfer to fill other cities, when necessary. My capital nearly always builds a granary very early (exceptions being twofold -- when the second city site is a natural 4-turn settler factory and the capital isn't or when the capital is so food rich and shield poor that it grows faster than it can pop units anyway). I definitely build granaries, but not in every city.

Minor disagreement, anyway. The rest we agree on, it appears.

Arathorn

[Speaker]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
EDIT - After reading what Arathorn said, I find myself agreeing with all of it except one thing - I think granaries are a necessity. The higher your pop, the more money. A few turns of solid growth, and you'll be surprised with how much more money you can make.

In the Ancient and Medieval Ages, you can often only afford (shieldwise) to build a granary in a few key cities. I usually build granaries in the rest of the cities when they are stalled at size 12, waiting for hospitals, with no other infrastructure to build.

[TerraHero]

Computer cheats

i used sum "fanatic" moding..i had lotsa money..i earned 300 a turn and had a grand army and science rate.

And guess what.. they actualy managed to stay up..at chieftain.

a Civ on a small Grassland only and no resource island was actualy at sum point further then a lardge empire with all resources and stuff

now that is impossible..i was running at 100% research

so no way they could actualy stay ahead of me